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Danticat & Diaz On Writing, Justice, And Being A "Nerd Of Color"
Cry Me A River
Don't Worry, There Will Be Seductions.
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thesciencegirl
10/19/09

In reply to Danticat & Diaz On Writing, Justice, And Being A "Nerd Of Color"
My name is thesciencegirl, and I am a nerd of color. It's interesting... the ways in which being a nerd in communities of color can be alienating, and the ways in which being a person of color can be alienating in communities of nerds.

I have heard many POCs in the scifi world lament the opposition to moving away from the prototype of the white male as protagonist observing the alien other. Google RaceFail for blog post upon blog post of discussion on that very topic. #edwidgedanticat
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wealhtheow
10/19/09

@thesciencegirl: Yeah, it's a double-whammy. And what's incredible is not just the opposition to anything but generic McEurope, but the constant claims that we can't have anything but Tolkein rip-offs and Asimov!light because there's no market for it. Because, you see, there is no such thing as a non-white, non-male nerd. Which--WHAT? It must be amazing to be able to completely ignore everyone that doesn't fit with your preconcieved notions of reality. #edwidgedanticat
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Eriu
10/19/09

In reply to Danticat & Diaz On Writing, Justice, And Being A "Nerd Of Color"
I would feel remiss if I didn't mention that Danticat's Brother, I'm Dying is absolutely amazing. Easily one of the best books I've read in years. I highly recommend it, as if her excerpt above doesn't already speak volumes.
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Pizza!Pizza!Pizza!
10/19/09

In reply to Danticat & Diaz On Writing, Justice, And Being A "Nerd Of Color"
'Despite his experience with the nerd police, Diaz also advanced the somewhat debatable point that reading teaches compassion. He said reading a book was "one of the clearest ways to come into communion with another subjectivity.'

Love him for this, and I totally agree. Kids can't sit back and not react to a book the same way you can a movie, TV show or videogame. #edwidgedanticat
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Anna N.
10/19/09

@HeatherNumber1: I don't know -- I like books more than movies, TV, or videogames, in general, but I'm not sure they're actually any less passive. Videogames require actual physical interaction, for instance, and I think can improve some types of coordination and cognition. I do think that Diaz's point about "subjectivity" is smart, because it's possible to be closer to a character's mind in a book than it usually is in a movie or TV show -- you can actually read their thoughts, which usually isn't possible onscreen. #edwidgedanticat
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Pizza!Pizza!Pizza!
10/19/09

@Anna N.: Oh, I don't think books are less passive (especially not after reading Everything Bad is Good for You), but as you say, kids who red books are almost forced to empathize, even if it's against their will. Maybe it's because I didn't have cable growing up, but reading was the first time I felt 'Somebody out there *gets* me.' #edwidgedanticat
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lilbobbytables
10/19/09

In reply to Danticat & Diaz On Writing, Justice, And Being A "Nerd Of Color"
Reading has, I firmly believe, made me a better person. It has given me the opportunity to crawl into someone else's headspace and see 1) how that character/person responds to the world, and 2) how the world responds to the character/person. It has helped me, to paraphrase Atticus Finch, to walk in another's shoes. While inhabiting a world only of fiction or books can be isolating, for me it has helped tear down some walls, and allows me to more easily empathize with others.

Such as. #edwidgedanticat
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thelastsara
10/19/09

@lilbobbytables is a la-di-da feminist: I feel this way too. There are many things I've read in books that I would not know or even think about otherwise. I think this is what all art is supposed to do, but books have a particular way of becoming a part of you. I definitely see things differently after a really good read. #edwidgedanticat
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Grim Reaper of the Forest
10/19/09

@lilbobbytables is a la-di-da feminist: Not to pat myself on the back, but I also feel like I am weirdly empathetic and I have always been a huge fiction reader. I love stories that can transport me into the mind of someone in other country or time. I'm not sure which came first, my nature or my reading. #edwidgedanticat
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Zombie Ms. Skittles
10/19/09

In reply to Danticat & Diaz On Writing, Justice, And Being A "Nerd Of Color"
Probably a dumb question, but why was he "pilloried."

What were his sci-fi reference crimes? What didn't they like? #edwidgedanticat
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wealhtheow
10/19/09

@Zombie Ms. Skittles: "What didn't they like?"
The constant objectification of women. #edwidgedanticat
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Zombie Ms. Skittles
10/19/09

@wealhtheow: No, I mean in this part:
"Diaz said he'd been pilloried in the mainstream nerd press (only sort of an oxymoron) in a way that smacked of racism."

What's that referring to? #edwidgedanticat
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ucelluccia
10/19/09

@Zombie Ms. Skittles: *shrug* I haven't read it, but I am a pre-service teacher and know that several of my friends already working are using Oscar Wao in their classrooms. Apparently it's highly teachable -- a Pulitzer Prize winner, after all.

From what I know about it, the main character is a comic book nerd -- maybe they just didn't care for the comics he liked? #edwidgedanticat
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LaComtesse
10/19/09

@wealhtheow: ?! But women are some of the greatest characters in Oscar Wao and any objectification of them was done in a very character specific way that was in their voice(s), not the authors. #edwidgedanticat
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amy_b
10/19/09

@Zombie Ms. Skittles: Oscar Wao is a beautiful book. Highly recommended.

What I don' t think they liked? Maybe they didn't care for the fact that Oscar was fat and a loser with the ladies. He was the stereotypical sci-fi dork, only with more melanin. #edwidgedanticat
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wealhtheow
10/19/09

@Zombie Ms. Skittles: I spend a lot of time on sf/f book sites (like Diaz, I am a huge nerd), and the only criticism I've seen has been the sexism thang. It's possible he's gotten some flack because his work got recognized as literature. Generally, sf/f is very much NOT considered lit, which a lot of people, myself included, think a bit unfair. So there are numerous authors (Margaret Atwood springs to mind) who insist their work isn't science fiction or fantasy, even when it involves magic and post-apocalyptic scenarios. There's a brief mention of it here.

But really, I don't know what criticism Diaz is talking about if he's not referring to the claims of sexism. #edwidgedanticat
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Anna N.
10/19/09

@wealhtheow: There's a specific review in the New York Review of Science Fiction that he was referring to, which I wasn't able to find on their site. It sounded like the review said he was misusing the scifi references in some way, or didn't know enough about scifi to talk about it. I'll look again for the link though, my curiosity is re-piqued. #edwidgedanticat
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susanstohelit
10/19/09

@LaComtesse: Yeah, Feministing posted about this too, and I felt like the misogyny in the book was meant to be a critique of the culture, rather than Diaz's opinion of women. The female characters are strong, but in a culture that deeply devalues them, they have to cope anyway they can. #edwidgedanticat
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whynotshesaid
10/19/09

@LaComtesse: I am glad to know I am not the only feminist woman who was not down with the criticisms of Oscar Wao as sexist. It was written from the POV of sexist dudes! The way it was written told me that Diaz was more than aware of the fact that they were sexist dudes and not because that's how he thought the world actually was. #edwidgedanticat
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LaComtesse
10/19/09

@whynotshesaid: @susanstohelit: Oh no, we can definitely form a club. If one cannot see the difference between a sexist narrator and a sexist book then they're not in a position to be critiquing in the first place. #edwidgedanticat
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Rooo sez BISH PLZ
10/19/09

@wealhtheow: A lot of people miss this. Thank you for raising it. #edwidgedanticat
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Rooo sez BISH PLZ
10/19/09

@wealhtheow: It may well also have been the Spanglish thing. The book uses a lot of it, and as ridiculous as it is, I wouldn't have been surprised if some critics branded it 'alienating' on the way to heralding him as a 'new voice'.
*eyeroll* #edwidgedanticat
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girlarchaeologist
08/25/09

In reply to Cry Me A River
I saw 'sci-fi' and 'river' and got all excited because I thought this was going to be about something totally different.
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Hana Maru
08/25/09

@girlarchaeologist: If only!
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Everything MidnightBikeRide does is a balloon.
08/25/09

In reply to Cry Me A River
Every time I see my mom crying, no matter the circumstances, I absolutely have to start crying too, and vice versa. We don't really get emotional/share-y in other ways, so that's kind of the key to the bond. So yeah, I believe it.
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Imogen Quest
08/25/09

In reply to Cry Me A River
I get headaches every time I cry. All my life. I wish it felt good! It does feel good in other ways. But I know I'm going to pay for it if I start, so I try not to.
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Hana Maru
08/25/09

@Imogen Quest: I'm not the only one! I hate it when people talk about about a "good cry", and "letting it out" I cry pretty often and it does not feel good to me. I get a killer sinus headache, I get congested, I bawl, my face gets red, my eyelids and nose stay swollen for hours, and If I cry right before bed, they will still be swollen in the morning.

The worst is that I can't stop crying, long after, say, my husband and I have sorted out some misunderstanding and made up. It's like a snowball effect. I'll explain to him that I'm not still upset, I'm just continuing to cry because I can't help it, but, understandably, this is pretty difficult for him to process.

Honestly, it's those times that I can hold myself back from crying that I feel better, physically and emotionally.
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brinkswomanship
08/25/09

In reply to Cry Me A River
I cried watching the Best Damn 50 Baseball Plays last night, and I was alone on the couch. But my personal relationship with Babe Ruth is stronger than ever.
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BiteMeMitchell!
08/25/09

In reply to Cry Me A River
I cried for the first time in ages recently, I'm going through a period of massive upheaval in my life just now and I have been having a lot of very difficult (mostly financial) problems that have all descended upon me at once. I did feel better for it afterwards, though at the time it felt a bit shitty as I was alone and I really just wanted a cuddle.
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Penny
08/25/09

@BiteMeMitchell!: I hope things improve for you soon. It's hard when you're consumed with overwhelming feelings like that.
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BiteMeMitchell!
08/25/09

@Penny: Thanks. I'm getting there. I'm not much of a crier (unless it's a sad movie involving animals - Watership Down destroys me!), normally if I get frustrated or angry I'll just rant and rave to the nearest available ear. But it just all got to be too much. It did help though, I was able to think much more clearly and rationally afterwards.
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la.donna.pietra
08/25/09

In reply to Cry Me A River
Since my default emotional response to anything major--happy, sad, angry, etc.--is to cry, my personal relationships must be like titanium. Adamantium, even.
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EdnasEdibles
08/25/09

@la.donna.pietra: I am the same way. I cry when I'm sad or angry or tired or frustrated. I hate that I do it and I've tried countless things to stop by that just ends up making it worse, like putting a lid on a boiling pot of water. I just end up exploding.
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lowestformofwit
08/25/09

In reply to Cry Me A River
"Related: It also feels good!"

YES! I have no shame in crying. I hate the fact that being a cryer in society pins me as weak and not worth listening to. The only problem with crying is the resulting headache; maybe due to dehydration?
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Penny
08/25/09

In reply to Cry Me A River
I find there's a bit of a bell curve. A few tears, I like, intense crying that results in my passing out, that's cool. Anything in between sucks, mostly because I end up with burning, puffy eyes and a clogged nose.
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morninggloria
08/25/09

@Penny: Oh, the day after a gigantic cry is a glasses day for me. And I usually explain my puffy face by telling people that I have allergies.
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colormeroutine
08/25/09

@morninggloria: I am lucky in that my eyelids turn purple, not red, and people usually think I am wearing slightly outdated eye shadow
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morninggloria
08/25/09

In reply to Cry Me A River
Does this mean that Glenn Beck and I are in love?
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alexsim
08/25/09

In reply to Cry Me A River
I've never been much of a crier, probably because I grew up in a way too hysterical (manipulative tears and narcissism) household . I treasure calm and serenity. My sisters say I'm in denial, but it seems to be working for me.
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