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On Dandies, Fops And Terribly Dressed Men
"These Tents Are The Ellis Island Of Fashion!"
New York, 12:28 PM
Thu Nov 26
64 posts in the last 24 hours
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On Dandies, Fops And Terribly Dressed Men |
"These Tents Are The Ellis Island Of Fashion!" |
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11/04/09
I have tried for 20 years to get him to change and it will not happen. (He cleans up real nice, though.) #men
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Eh... I'm a fan of guys coming up with their own sense of style, but I think it's sort of unfortunate when it's 'of a piece' with their other interests. My little slice of the world is a bit poorer when I can look at someone and guess so many different things about them and their tastes from their wardrobe, tattoos, and the like. Why people feel the need to wear their lives on their proverbial sleeve, I'll never quite understand. #men
11/03/09
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"i don't want to be a traitor to my generation and all but I don't get how guys dress today. I mean, come on, it looks like they just fell out of bed and put on some baggy pants and take their greasy hair - ew - and cover it up with a backwards cap and like, we're expected to swoon? I don't think so."
i think women embrace the idea of well-dressed men because it undermines the double standard when it comes to expectations for appearance between men and women. women put in a lot of effort to make themselves presentable by some sort of standards which they do not control while nothing comparable is expected of men. women kill themselves for the sake of their appearance (im not saying this a good thing, of course) while men are completely unaware of how much effort they are putting in. its nice to see men take the initiative to return the favor. #men
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11/04/09
although im a little curious as to what you mean by "free days" #men
11/04/09
For every guy I know who doesn't worry about the imposing variety of messages society gives him about how he should look, sound, dress, act, etc. I know one who does. These messages may not be 100% as intense as the messages aimed at girls, but I think they're definitely past the 80% threshold.
I don't know many people of either gender who spend much time worrying about whether or not they have "cultural capital", though. #men
11/04/09
and of course most people don't consciously think about what they can do to increase their cultural capital-- it is an sociological concept! people don't often think of their motivations in academic terms, but they still participate in behaviors that can be classified as such. we participate in sociological phenomenons without knowing it all of the time. #men
11/05/09
Fair enough, but 'living in a small southern city' isn't the norm, nor is it the bellwether for 'where our country is' on the issue. The suburbs are more like the cities than like the country in this respect.
"but you're just making up statistics at this point. and i still i don't think its as universal as those expectations on women. "
I didn't give you a 'statistic', I gave you a semi-educated guess, the same as you gave me.
As for cultural capital, for both genders it tends to accrue (in either suburban or urban settings) to people who either have money or take care of their appearance. There's not a giant gender divide there. #men
11/03/09
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Foppish men, like stylish women, make me feel a bit weary. I can't imagine putting that much effort in on a daily basis, but they can have fun with it if they like. #men
11/04/09
I know, it's very judgey. I will do better. #men
11/03/09
2nd. Lorentzen argues that "hipsterism fetishizes the authentic" elements of all of the "fringe movements of the postwar era—Beat, hippie, punk, even grunge," and "regurgitates it with a winking inauthenticity" and a sense of irony. He claims that this group of "18-to-34-year-olds", who are mostly white, "have defanged, skinned and consumed" all of these influences "into a repertoire of meaninglessness".
3rd. Furthermore, he argues that the "hipster is defined by a lack of authenticity, by a sense of lateness to the scene" or the way that they transform the situation into a "self-conscious scene, something others can scrutinize and exploit".
4th. Don't get me wrong I love a man who puts a little thought into his wardrobe, but I feel like the whole "dandy/fop" style Sadie is describing is off. I always took dandies to be men who went the extra mile for appearances, not men who subscribed to a particular style.
5th Hipsters you could learn a thing or two from this man.
11/03/09
weren't beats, hippies, punks and grungers were also primarily white subcultures (and middle-class to boot) as well though? while i agree with the general sentiment that hipster fashion culture is vacant and meaningless precisely because its essence is apolitical, all of the aforementioned groups you have mentioned were lampooned in their own time for that very same thing. the beatniks were false-prophets ripping off jazz culture, hippies were self-indulgent kids with a sophomoric grasp of eastern philosophy, punks were nihilistic, anarchists and grungers were disaffected post-boomers who fetishized disenfranchisement. but we don't see them as such now that time has passed because we glorify the past and remember the important members of these groups who actually had and gave meaning to themselves and their subcultures.
i think the marriage of subculture and cultural capital that we have seen in the hipster subculture is unnerving in its pervasiveness and mainstreaming of counter-cultural ideas, icons, or fashions (im looking at you american apparel, my mortal enemy), but its a bit simplistic to hold these past, white middle-class movements up as authentic when so many of those involved were also dismissed for being fashionable-hangers-on caught up in the cultural zeitgeist of their time. #men
11/03/09
But (just my opinion) the difference is they were born out of an authentic need to be a part of/or change shifting cultural and political winds. Although in many/most cases they quickly forgot and/or bastardized their purposes and missions.
I just can't seem to find an authentic origin for the post 2001 hipster subculture. While your correct about past subcultures, like the beatniks riffing off jazz culture for instance, those groups were riffing off their peers and contemporaries. While hipsters well...aren't. Whether it b/c their aren't any contemporaries to rip off, who knows?
I just get the feeling my future kids aren't going to look back and fantasize about hipster culture. #men
11/04/09
but i think the biggest misconception about hipsterdom is that is a counter-culture. i think it is going to be remembered more as a cultural zeitgeist that predates a more "authentic" counter-cultural expression (such as the mods predated hippies, disco predated punk, yuppies predated grunge). or at least i hope. but of course i can't look into the future and authenticity is the sort of the thing that is assigned after-the-fact. and that is what i think is important to remember in these sorts of discussions: that its pretty impossible to assign cultural value, relevance, importance, etc. to something while-it-is-happening. at the end of the day, its really just speculation. #men
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11/03/09
It really depress me when all I se in straight dudes is their hability to dress like they don't care, when if girls showed up dressing the first thing they found it would be read as a lack of interest in the date/job/meeting, etc. #men
11/03/09
Also, I love Asian fashion for men - much more variety in colors, textures and patterns.
As for dating, as much as I like to look at them, we are usually very different personality-wise. I am a slob who doesn't do much, fashion-wise. Someone who is really into dressing up and trying out new trends is going to be kinda bored with me, as I don't have much to add. I find that with both men and women who are really into fashion. We tend to just not have much to talk about. The foppy ones I have met have all been very condescending, and while I know that there are pleasant fops out there, I just haven't met any. And the last thing I need is another person criticizing my fashion sense - I get that enough from my mother, you know? It's all about the personality chemistry, but they are really fun to see, fashion-wise. #men
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Ha! So yes, we have the spraytanned douchebags here. Enough that we can throw a party to make fun of them. (BTW, the plan is to donate the Ed Hardy/Affliction gear that people bring.) #men
11/04/09
And I am from the Montrose area. Those are hipsters, for the most part (and punks and goths and b-boys and leather-daddies and everything else)... God, I love my neighborhood. #men
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