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Saudi Arabian Women Integrate Workforce In Battle For Equality
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the chavi
10/12/09

In reply to Saudi Arabian Women Integrate Workforce In Battle For Equality
Prince Waleed, for all that he publicly does to hire women and to promote equality in the workplace, is mostly concerned with having attractive women prominently working for him. There are plenty of progressive women in Saudi Arabia who resent his attitude towards women - they're accouterments, not respected employees.

Saudi women face some incredible structural and cultural challenges in their efforts to enter the workforce. However, in the time I spent living there and meeting Saudi students every day, I was very impressed with how these women were determined to forge a place for themselves in the workforce without turning their society on its ears.
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divine booty
10/12/09

In reply to Saudi Arabian Women Integrate Workforce In Battle For Equality
Rotana television is mainly a bunch of music channels (a few movie channels as well, I think) that is owned by Prince AlWaleed BinTalal and mainly broadcasts dolled-up women veejays in between music videos. I doubt that it's a very women-friendly environment.

My problem with these places being the pioneers is that if anything bad such as sexual harassment is reported (highly unlikely), it'll make society's acceptance of mixed gender workplaces even further away.

ETA: I mentioned he's a Prince to imply that he gets to do whatever he wishes in his companies without fear of prosecution.
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MIXED
10/12/09

In reply to Saudi Arabian Women Integrate Workforce In Battle For Equality
My great-aunt, who grew up in Palestine and later Amman, thinks the laws oppressing women in Saudi Arabia are ridiculous. She took off her hijab and wrapped her head in a keffiyeh to look like a man so that she could drive a car while she was there. She rolls her eyes every time someone talks about gender-specific workplaces. She is over 90 years old. Love that lady.

My point is, I'm not sure if it's a sentiment felt by women across the Middle East but outside of Saudi, but from personal experience I wouldn't say that MOST women in the region agree with such limiting rules regarding gender separation in public, etc. Younger generations and the work of women described in the article are bringing about - slow - change.
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ImperfectLit.Woman
12/16/08

In reply to Dos And Don'ts
When I see and read articles like this about women's oppression in certain countries,I can't help but think of this quote I have heard from NCIS from Ducky the medical examiner-"women are only equal in death and nothing more." Sad but true.

I just wish people realized that Saudi Arabia's rules and restrictions on women are due to cultural reasons and NOT religious. Nowhere in the Quran does it allow blatant discriminations like this.

It's just men misreading and misconstruing certain verses and hadiths to further their own misogynistic, puritanical and hateful views. Nothing else.
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Haystacks
12/16/08

In reply to Dos And Don'ts
I assume they are allowed to die and be buried.
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ellaesther
12/16/08

@Haystacks: Sadly occasionally at the hands of their own family members.
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umamimama
12/16/08

In reply to Dos And Don'ts
A Pakistani blogger reports that the reported reason for the graveyard prohibition is "the dead can see you naked."

Maybe the reason women can't drive is that the dead are desperately trying to carjack a ride out of their Chippendale's-like cemeteries: all-male, all-nude, for all of eternity.
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RainbowBrite
12/16/08

@umamimama: HAHA The dead can see you naked. That is actually really hilarious!
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Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.
12/16/08

@umamimama: Bestie. TOTALLY!
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ellaesther
12/16/08

In reply to Dos And Don'ts
I just want to throw out there that the Islam practiced in Saudi is a particularly restrictive version (Wahabism), based in the harshest school of legal jurisprudence (Hanbali). The level of darkness that is perpetuated in the name of some twisted version of piety over there makes me ill (from the misogyny to the anti-Semitism, just to name two problems), but the Saudi version of Islam is really not representative of Islam as practiced by the majority of Muslims.

Just sayin'.
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stacyinbean
12/16/08

@ellaesther: So very very very true. And the scary part (to me anyway) is that we count them as one of our only 'friends' in the region.
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ellaesther
12/16/08

@stacyinbean: I know. The use of the word "moderate" makes my head implode. Apparently, in State Department speak, all "moderate" means is "will work with us without too much fuss."

Because according to my dictionary, the Saudis ain't moderate.
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stacyinbean
12/16/08

@ellaesther: Also - "has oil and is willing to share it." It's so frustrating.
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pmarble
12/16/08

@ellaesther: Your "just sayin" was very eloquent.
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Jack_Burton
12/16/08

@ellaesther: It's a very unusual relationship that they have w/ the West as well; The Saudi Royal Family invests quite a bit of money in the US, yet some members are so violently opposed to US and Israel that they print fundamentalist Quran and set up mosques all over the world preaching the destruction of the West.

There is overwhelming evidence that Osama Bin Laden is merely one of many Saudi Royals that ideologically and financially support the spread of restrictive Sharia law, and the Taliban.
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ellaesther
12/16/08

@pmarble: Thank you for sayin' so! (Now, I suppose you don't have a job for me?)
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pmarble
12/16/08

In reply to Dos And Don'ts
Reason number 4,762 to never go to Saudi Arabia. Ever.

And yes, yes, I know, I'm sure there's all sorts of lovely things about Saudi Arabia. I saw that No Reservations where Anthony Bourdain was shown around by a lovely lady who seemed really cool and didn't seem to mind being forced to wear a burka and sit in the "family" section of the Saudi version of KFC. I just have no interest in going to a place where woman are so completely subjugated to men. Ooh, I'm so mad now I have to go to the gym and work it off. I'd drive, but it's about 1 minute away from my loft. Which I own. Take THAT SA.
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stacyinbean
12/16/08

@pmarble: Fortunately for most of us, we likely wouldn't even be allowed in the country unless we were the guest of someone! Just one more thing to love about Saudi Arabia!
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taranwanderer
12/16/08

In reply to Dos And Don'ts
As someone who enjoys hanging out in cemeteries, the graveyard one is particularly distressing to me.

(Obviously it's not the worst, but still.)
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〇わ〜い〇
12/16/08

In reply to Dos And Don'ts
Women in Saudi Arabia also cannot attend mosque. Have you ever read Princess by Jean Sassoon? Very troubling--nothing but disappointment for women. Every day.

How are we supposed to respect their "rules"?
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stacyinbean
12/16/08

@vagtart: Great book, and the two that followed were good too. It's so hard to imagine being a woman over there and trying to change things to no avail.
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Jack_Burton
12/16/08

@vagtart: If women went to mosque, they might - gasp - learn how to become community organizers!
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Mafalda para Presidente
12/16/08

In reply to Dos And Don'ts
That's funny, because I am allowed to drive a car but I am not able to actually BUY one.

SNIFF.
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dirtybee
12/16/08

In reply to Dos And Don'ts
I was listening to NPR last night. Women protested back in 1990 against the driving law, and they paid the price for voicing their right. Fast forward to 18 years later, these women are still treated unfairly by those who remember them as protesters. Yet, one young woman was praised as a hero because she drove her extremely ill father to the hospital.

Hopefully, these barriers will come tumbling down soon, for their sake.
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morninggloria
12/16/08

In reply to Dos And Don'ts
What about if you cut out the floor of the car and run with it, Fred Flinstone style? Is that driving? How about if you have your kid hold the wheel while you Flinstone your way to the Jewel Osco? What if you visit a graveyard but your feet never touch the ground because you are on a pogo stick? Is graveyard pogo sticking allowed? How about riding around on a segway?
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BrutallyHonestBabes (aka Mrs. Sarah.of.a.Lesser.Hobbit)
12/16/08

@morninggloria: I did read the pogo-stick clause in the Koran. Of course, I learned the Koran in clown college and wonder if Professor Bobo's interpretation might have been a little biased.
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rocknrollunicorn
12/16/08

@morninggloria: I love that you mentioned Jewel Osco. But I'm not sure if you're allowed to come up with such schemes, as a woman.
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badmutha
12/16/08

@morninggloria: I take visit to mean "break the plane of intersection with the real world and earth" so even if you did the pogo stick, you'd probably still get in trouble. The Fred Flintstone thing would totally be ok though. And it would get rid of any callouses you had, in the beginning.
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BrutallyHonestBabes (aka Mrs. Sarah.of.a.Lesser.Hobbit)
12/16/08

In reply to Dos And Don'ts
Oh, rules for the wimmens. I love that we can dirt nap in the cemetery but not visit there.
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Kali Mama
12/16/08

@BrutallyHonestBabes: But you can get your dirty menses cooties all over the .... graves containing rotting corpses.
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rocknrollunicorn
12/16/08

In reply to Dos And Don'ts
The car thing is obviously awesome. I mean you buy a car and then someone has to drive you around! That someone being a hired woman or a male relative!

So even if you have a Geo, you get to feel rich and fancy.
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Mafalda para Presidente
12/16/08

@rocknrollunicorn: Well, all other wimmin's restrictions aside, I'd love to have someone to drive me around all the time. I just hate driving.
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SarahMC
12/16/08

@rocknrollunicorn: It sucks to be dependent on another person to drive you around. Trust.
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DangerMouse
12/16/08

@SarahMC: Well, if that's their only job, then they have to do it, no? I imagine having a chauffeur is different than asking my mom for a ride back in the day.
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SarahMC
12/16/08

@DangerMouse (was ejc....): I imagine it is, too. But why do you assume every woman can afford to pay a personal driver? Furthermore, why does it matter? Women should be permitted to drive whether some individual woman feels like taking advantage of that privilege or not.
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DangerMouse
12/16/08

@SarahMC: Oh, I was just thinking from Mafalda's perspective, not for all women everywhere.
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SarahMC
12/16/08

@DangerMouse (was ejc....): My bad.
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