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Endangered Species: The Sari

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Green Goth Brit Chick - AlternatEve
06/25/09

In reply to Endangered Species: The Sari
My mother just got back from India, my dad works for an Indian-owned company. One of the owners wives bought her a TONNE of sari's because my mother adores them, and told her if she didn't wear them she'd be offended. My mother has been living in them since it got warm. She also sent some for me, and hells if I'm not wearing them while it's hot!

Mum also bought some of a friend of mine in the US. She wears them whenever the hell she feels like it, especially to work. We can all put them on ourselves (I made a hash of it a few times 'til a friend of mine put me out of my misery). I also have some sets of shalwar kameez (can't spell it it save my life) I wear when it's hot too. Mind you, I live in the middle of a large Indian/Pakistani Asian community where mixed marriages are common and no-one really bats an eyelash at a white woman dressed so.
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momentsofabsurdity
06/25/09

In reply to Endangered Species: The Sari
As an ABCD, I always feel so awkward in saris. Even in salwars. Traditional Indian dress makes me feel so out of place, even though I know it is beautiful, I just don't feel... natural in it.

Saris are gorgeous. They are easy to get in and out of when you know how, they're cool, but they can be cumbersome. But I always look so damn awkward when I wear them.
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That_little_attention_whore
06/24/09

In reply to Endangered Species: The Sari
I am moving to India in the fall, and I am totally excited to be able to rock a sari if i get invited to a wedding or fancy party. if I have to choose between a cocktail dress and a sari, the sari wins every time. I'm also excited to rock a salwar kameez. Basically - billowy, lighweight fabrics + bright colors and fun patterns = all kinds of win. Apparently, the more fashion conscious girls in Mumbai wear a kurta (the long tunic) with jeans or capris, which also looks great.

I fully realize I am whitey mcwhiterson, but I have asked Indian friends and acquaintances about foreigners getting dressed up in local garb (esp for festivals, parties, and other special occasions) and none of them seemed to have a problem with it, so I won't and neither should anyone else.

also, i'll actually be in India, so I won't be some American trying to look trendy - I'll just be some goofy foreigner trying to blend in with the locals. But at least I'll be stylin'!
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Hana Maru
06/25/09

@That_little_attention_whore: As an Indian, I think it's perfectly appropriate to wear to an Indian event.
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spikenard
06/24/09

In reply to Endangered Species: The Sari
I'd feel better if people realised that what you wear has no bearing on how empowered you are.
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Tart of Darkness
06/24/09

@spikenard: Agreed 100%.
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sewradical
06/24/09

In reply to Endangered Species: The Sari
After this I am going to shut up, I promise...

But the history of the sari in the last 150 years is fascinating. Hand loom manufacturing was important (symbolically if not economically) in the resistance against the British. The introduction of industrially manufactured cloth was a really important in British colonization.

Google the swadeshi movement if you are interested.
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RainbowBrite
06/24/09

@sewradical: That jogs my memory - didn't Gandhi on hand-weave his own fabrics? As part of the resistance?
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LBB
06/24/09

In reply to Endangered Species: The Sari
Just the other day, here in LA, I saw a group of five or six women walking down the street in saris. I don't know if they were hand-loomed or mass produced, but the colors and materials were absolutely amazing.
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RainbowBrite
06/24/09

In reply to Endangered Species: The Sari
God the color of the sari in #2 is absolutely gorgeous
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karmasutra är svensk
06/24/09

@RainbowBrite:

What's funny is that's actually one of the cheaper saris, the daily ones! I made some mistakes of pointing out saris I loved when they were actually the ones that those of lower classes wear (I was with a very upper-class host family and my host father owned a sari shop, and considering the class discrepancies in India my mistake was a bit of a big deal) so it would be 'inappropriate' for me to buy that.

That's part of the reason India is so colorful, though - everyone can afford the color because even the cheaper saris can be so, so bright and beautifully patterned.
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RainbowBrite
06/24/09

@karmasutra: Interesting! So if you wore that your host family would have thought...you were trashy? they'd have been embarrassed?

How can one tell it's a cheap sari? The color? Fabric? Lack of embroidery/embellishments?

It's so funny because of course clothing in India is as nuanced as it is here, but as an outsider I can't see the differences.
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RainbowBrite
06/24/09

In reply to Endangered Species: The Sari
While we may mourn the loss of such a stunning traditional craft, to many Indian women, this sartorial sea-change is a positive one. Explains one student, "There is a general perception that you would consider a woman in western formal wear more empowered than her more traditional counterparts."

I'm not sure that it's positive that a woman in Western clothing is seen as more empowered than a woman in "traditional" clothing...
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emmaduck
06/24/09

In reply to Endangered Species: The Sari
I grew up in the "Little India/Punjabi Market" area of Vancouver, and I wanted nothing more than my own sari. I got to see them in shop windows all the time, and they were always so pink and covered in gold sparkles and little mirrors! Four to ten year old me just thought that owning one would be the best thing ever.

The principal at my elementary school - a white woman - would wear saris to all of the school's big events. I realize now just how ridiculous she must have looked, particularly considering most of the Indian kids' mothers were wearing Western clothes.

Now that I'm an adult, I regret not having goaded my mother into letting me get a sari. At 8 years old, I just would have looked cute (and I'd have a little sari in my closet). If I bought and wore one now, I'd look as odd and inappropriate as my then principal.
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Hana Maru
06/25/09

@emmaduck: Well, children don't typically wear them. Each one is 6 yards of material, so I don't know how that would work.
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Lucille van Pelt
06/24/09

In reply to Endangered Species: The Sari
Any Indian Jezze's out there? would it be socially acceptable or would it be wrong for non-indians to wear a sari? Is it insulting to the culture?
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Beets.Go.On is the Fat Yogini
06/24/09

@Lucille van Pelt: I got torn apart on here for asking that exact same question a few months ago. ::backs away slowly::
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spikenard
06/24/09

@Lucille van Pelt: I'm ethnic and I find it really weird and problematic to see white people wearing 'my' culture's clothes for the reasons that CubeRootofPi stated. It just bothers me, maybe unfairly. It looks like cultural tourism to me, and 90% of the time cultural tourism is condescending towards the culture it explores.
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Tart of Darkness
06/24/09

@spikenard: Well, but would you say the same thing about Indians in India wearing jeans? Should Americans be insulted that people in other cultures have appropriated something distinctly American with a particularly American background (southwest working men) and not even understanding the context in which it was traditionally worn?

I don't have or own any saris but I love them and I agree they are very flattering to a variety of women's sizes and shapes which to me makes them nearly ideal clothing. What could be better?

And on a more jocular note: Would you rather see us wearing leggings????
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Sputnik_Sweetheart
06/24/09

@Tart of Darkness: I linked to this above, but this is a pretty good article about appropriation:

[www.racialicious.com]

From the article:

A Japanese teen wearing a t-shirt emblazoned with the logo of a big American company is not the same as Madonna sporting a bindi as part of her latest reinvention. The difference is history and power. Colonization has made Western Anglo culture supreme-powerful and coveted. It is understood in its diversity and nuance as other cultures can only hope to be. Ignorance of culture that is a burden to Asians, African and indigenous peoples, is unknown to most European descendants or at least lacks the same negative impact.
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MakeMeSmile
06/24/09

@Lucille van Pelt: Indian-American here who wouldn't be offended at all if a non-Indian were to wear a sari. They're gorgeous aren't they? =)
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Mama Penguino
06/25/09

@MakeMeSmile: My 5 yr old daughter was watching something on the Nick Jr. site this morning that showed an Indian family celebrating Holi Maya and she said in the most serious voice, "Mama, can I wear a beautiful dress like that some day?" and I said of course! I explained that India is in very close proximity to China (where she was born) and that she would look quite beautiful with her long black hair, etc. That said, where would one find a sari for a small girl?
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foodandshoes
06/25/09

@Mama Penguino: If I remember correctly, there are a few Indian stores in Johnson County. You're in KS, right?
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Mama Penguino
06/25/09

@foodandshoes: Good memory, thanks! I'll check it out.

@babyruthless: Thank you!!!
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Mama Penguino
06/25/09

@foodandshoes: Good memory, thanks! I'll check it out.

@babyruthless: Thank you!!!
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Mama Penguino
06/25/09

@foodandshoes: Good memory, thanks! I'll check it out.

@babyruthless: Thank you!!!
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Mama Penguino
06/26/09

@Mama Penguino: Hiccup!
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tonightineed is actually Mrs. Ziegler-Spock
06/24/09

In reply to Endangered Species: The Sari
I think the sari is such a gorgeous clothing option, I wish I had a reason to wear one. I'm not certain it's at all appropriate for me to wear one even if I had a reason (I'm not sure if from a cultural and/or religious aspect it would be strange, frowned upon, etc).

One of my friends is Sri Lankan, and she wears one for special occasions, family parties, etc. They're beautiful, and I can't help but look at them and think that our western clothing options pale in color and style comparison. Then again, I suppose a great deal of that is simply what you know. Not unlike the way some of us fawn over the hats so prevalent during special occasions in the UK.
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Zombies make the heart grow fonder
06/24/09

@tonightineed is actually Mrs. Ziegler-Spock: Whenever one of my Indian friends has a wedding to attend etc all the non Indian women wear saris as well. The whole idea that there is a stigma on non traditionally Indian women wearing a sari seems like nonsense to me based on extensive interactions with very different Indian families.
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Spaceman Bill Leah
06/24/09

In reply to Endangered Species: The Sari
It's hot as balls here. This post really makes me want to head up to Devon and buy myself a buttload of saris.
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tomatoheart
06/25/09

@Spaceman Bill Leah: don't forget to stop at King Sweets for some nom-noms
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femputer
06/24/09

In reply to Endangered Species: The Sari
that is sad. I know I've said this before....If I wouldn't feel like an asshat for wearing another culture's clothing, I'd wear nothing but saris. When I see a woman in one, all I can think is that it is the prettiest, most feminine and flattering thing a woman could wear.
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The HZA.
06/24/09

@femputer: I've always wondered if its ok if I were to wear a sari. Or if it would be perceived as mocking the culture.
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tonightineed is actually Mrs. Ziegler-Spock
06/24/09

@femputer: Yes, exactly. There are a lot of clothing optons from the middle east that I equally would love to wear (either based on style, perceived comfort, etc) but I'm not sure it's culturally acceptable. I think I would get fewer strange looks if I were to wear a hijab than if I were to wear a sari, though.
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femputer
06/24/09

@The HZA. [member of the zombie nation]: yeah, that's kinda what I meant by the "asshat" thing. Like, "look, I've gone colonial!" Probably not cool.
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KiddyKat
06/24/09

@femputer: I don't see how appreciating/admiring something a culture has to offer would be mocking. My understanding is that it is a cultural dress (no real religious ties) so I would go for it. Life is short and these are little things to make you happy:)
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femputer
06/24/09

@KiddyKat: I know...I don't see it, and you don't see it, but I just know someone would see it that way.
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Fridge Hussy : Is finally heading back to uni!
06/24/09

@KiddyKat: Um, I'd seriously rethink that. Cultural appropriation makes me uncomfortable.
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KiddyKat
06/24/09

@Fridge Hussy : You Do The Meth!: I don't think clothing can fall into this category. Clothing is influenced by all different things, including/especially cultures and it probably always will. As a Chicana who watched Gwen Stefani wear "Mexican" clothing (the wide skirts, the hair a la Frida, the Virgen de Guadalupe shirts, and I'm pretty sure she's not a devotee of the Virgin), I would not be offended by this. It's like food, if someone likes Peruvian food and chooses to only eat Peruvian food, how are they appropriating the culture?

The culture is not just the clothing.
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CubeRootOfPi
06/24/09

@KiddyKat: I wrote about it below, and will quickly summarize: there's privilege attached to wearing "ethnic" (for lack of a better term) clothing when you're not of that culture, particularly if it's a white person wearing the clothing of a non-white culture. The white person is seen as doing something positive (whether it's dressing up or doing something trendy), whereas the "otherness" of the person who belongs to that culture gets re-enforced. (e.g. Gwen Stefani with the bindi and Harajuku Girls, Buddhist prayer beads being trendy back in the day). It's not mocking, but it's decidedly uncomfortable.

At the same time (which I didn't mention below) is that context matters. Family event where one side of the family is of Indian descent? Sure! Wanting to wear a sari (or chi pao or kende cloth, etc.) for the sake of wearing it because "it's so pretty"... not so much.
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KiddyKat
06/24/09

@CubeRootOfPi: Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree with you on this. It's no that I don't think this argument is valid but I think seeing this as reinforcing the otherness of the other culture is kind of a stretch (ALL fashion is, to some extent, modeled after clothing typical to a specific culture). But it's good to know: if I ever decide I like something from another culture, I'll know to think twice about wearing it.
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Zombies make the heart grow fonder
06/24/09

@CubeRootOfPi: I am growing increasingly tired of the word "privilege" being thrown around in the context of "other". Who is to say that the non Indian LOOKING woman wearing a sari is not of the culture? Instead of constantly assuming the worst in cases where race or culture or ethnicity are intersecting, why not allow them to blend?!
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Sputnik_Sweetheart
06/24/09

@CubeRootOfPi: I'm friending you for that. I remember there was a bit of controversy when Madonna wore a sari (in Rolling Stone and on the red carpet). Some people thought it was offensive that a white woman with arguably little knowledge of Indian culture was appropriating Indian dress, while there were, at the time, women of Indian decent getting attacked for wearing saris. I wish I could find the link to the story/blog article.
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Sputnik_Sweetheart
06/24/09

@Sputnik_Sweetheart: Not what the article I was thinking about, but good just the same:

[www.racialicious.com]

[www.racialicious.com]
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