Jezebel 
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New York, 2:02 PM
Tue Nov 24
71 posts in the last 24 hours
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06/12/09
Do I think David Letterman made a sexist joke that helps perpetuate a culture in which women and girls are all ready-made set-ups for sex jokes, where women and girls will be punished and shamed for their sexuality, and where pointing that out earns you the title of "humorless"? Yep. Not liking Sarah Palin, or particularly how she's handled the situation, doesn't let Letterman off the hook with me.
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It wasn't about Willow until her mother MADE it about Willow, and I feel very sorry for that girl if this is the sort of maternal instinct she's had to put up with.
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what, WHY?
he was clearly talking about her 18 year old daughter (who is legal and obviously sexually active)
he didn't pay attention to which of her 57 kids she happened to bring along (at the cost of the taxpayers). so what?
I'm a young girl and didn't contribute to any low self-esteem issues.
06/12/09
I cannot imagine poor Willow, whose name is now being touted around in connection with rape. She had no connection to this joke until her own mother brought her up (and from that clip, continues to push that angle relentlessly). Just what every 14 year old girl wants, their mom talking up an imaginary rape on TV.
It puts quite a damper on Palin's "Mama Bear" schtick.
06/12/09
And, frankly, I'm not sure what her 18 year old daughter did to deserve the joke any more than her 14 year old did.
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06/12/09
"No wonder young girls, especially, have such low self-esteem in America, when we think that it's funny for a so-called comedian to get away with being able to make such a remark."
which does, I think, point to the idea that it is a larger cultural problem. She is very specifically pointing out this joke as a symptom of a larger problem. And I think that's a valid point. I'd hate for that point to get lost just because it's Sarah Palin saying it.
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And, count me as the one person in the world that doesn't buy that it was a mistake.
You'd have to live under a fucking rock in Idaho not to remember that Bristol was the older/pregnant one.
And if Dave didn't want a shitstorm, he wouldn't have picked ANY of the Palin girls. No innocent parties here, IMO.
06/12/09
He said it was mistake b/c Palin accused him of talking about her daughter Willow. He said no- I was talking about Bristol.
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06/12/09
They're SEVEN and TEN.
Everyone knows Letterman meant Bristol, the 18 year old with a child who does interviews and throws herself into the media spotlight. Jokes aren't the news. They didn't need to fact check who was on the trip for Christ's sake.
I despise sexism but it bothers me even more when someone fakes outrage over serious issues. The fact that the Palins used words like "rape" when it wasn't meant like that DISGUSTS me. I refuse to defend or feel sorry for someone who does that in the hopes it will keep their Presidential dream alive.
06/12/09
I'd be offended if it were YOU.
I don't like Palin or her Bumpass family, but shit, as a woman/mother/feminist, wtf am I supposed to do? Give a pass based on a "mistaken" joke?
06/12/09
Comedy isn't politically correct. Have your problems with that, fine. But what Sarah Palin is doing is bullshit. I'd bet anything that she isn't THAT outraged. Countless jokes have been made about all politicians and they aren't issuing statements every chance they get.
She's practically calling Letterman a pedophile now. A politician doing that is more outrageous than jokes made on a late night comedy program.
06/12/09
06/12/09
They're USING us. That's what bothers me. And we're falling for it hook, line and sinker. They don't give a crap about how women are treated by the media--what they care about is that Sarah Palin IS covered by the media. It's like Speidi for God's sake! As long as she's in the press, it's a good thing. And we're helping her stay in the press.
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06/12/09
Does she seem to vehement? Is she too angry?
Look, I really hate this woman and her politics, but the way this dialouge is playing out isn't doing any of us any favors. It's not ok to dismiss women as "slutty." It's not. It's not. It's not.
And the one who has been so dismissed does not need to meet certain public expectations in order to deserve sympathy. This is really horrible.
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06/12/09
I don't like the way this is playing out. It's too much like, "I don't approve of guys being grabby at the office, but THAT girl had it coming." Or, "I would never say it's ok to hit a woman, but SHE'S kind of crazy and maybe there are two sides." Or, "Well, she says it's rape now, but what do we know..."
We're talking about her character and her reactions, instead of the sexist behavior. And we're the very people who normally want to oppose sexism. It's just depressing. @librariesare4lovers:
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06/12/09
Palin is getting her ass kicked becasue she is a political shill dresssed up like a sexy librarian. Who is more inclined to make sexy, eye-winking jokes rather than understand world affairs. She feels entitled to the vice-presidency becasue she looks good in three inch heels and believes women ahould not be allowed abortions- not because of her education, intellect, or experience.
She has worked her daughter's underage pregnancy into a platform and she doesn't seem the least bit ashamed of her actions- as a crappy mother .
Finally, because she wants to run for elected office but free speech, discourse, and jokes piss her off. She is a horrible person who is only uses her gender for her selfish purposes. She could care less about women and women's rights.
06/12/09
When did that get voted in?
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06/12/09
I don't see any up side to minimizing his "jokes" or attacking her character, however much I dislike her or her politics.
It's not about her. It's about a man shaming a woman in public, and everyone piling on, or trying to excuse him, because she isn't someone they like. Allowing this will only hurt everyone.
@lolacat:
06/12/09
06/12/09
"WOMEN ARE getting THEIR assES kicked becasue THEY ARE political shillS dresssed up like sexy librarianS. Who ARE more inclined to make sexy, eye-winking jokes rather than understand world affairs. THEY feel entitled to the vice-presidency becasue THEY look good in three inch heels and believe women ahould not be allowed abortions- not because of THEIR education, intellect, or experience"
then maybe Kiss Berry Wish would have a point; however, all that said about Palin is absolutely true. She tried to skate through the elections on well-tailored suits, rather than actual intelligence or qualifications. Calling her out on being lame is not sexist.
06/12/09
Palin being opportunitistic does not make Dave right.
Palin being a bitch does not make it ok when she's attacked.
This piling on does nothing good.
I'm upset by Palin's behavior during the campaign too, but I'm more upset by anyone who would try to say that she doesn't need defending or she's just as bad as he is. @misspell:
06/12/09
If I appear to be attacking her character, I'm not sure what to say. I think she is a bad person. No doubt about it. I've heard bad things about her and I believe them. I believe she is vindictive and manipulative, and corrupt. That goes hand in hand with what I believe about her politics. She is a poor excuse for an elected leader.
I just don't find the jokes that big of a deal. He is doing his job- making jokes about public figures. She is doing her job- spinning as much time as possible out of those jokes. I just don't think he shamed her in public. Not in a way that was inappropriate. Sarah Palin is a politician- therefore she can be legitimately shamed for her politics. Also, because she is one of those people who believes wholeheartedly in that the personal is politics- She is fair, fair game. Her use of her femininity as a weapon is fair game.
Now- about her daughters. I still believe that Bristol is fair game. If you want to be the poster child for Republican/fundie abstinence and tell all the other girls that sex is just not worth it- then you are fair game. Cuz' you know what- safe sex is worth it. Totally worth it. So jokes about a young woman who is working her unplanned pregnancy nation-wide for her mother's fame and/or run for the White House in 2012 - totally fair game.
The minor- not fair game. And Dave apologized for what was a mostly understandable error.
I don't think it hurts everyone.
06/12/09
You're basically saying a woman can make herself "fair game" through her behavior. Why are you so insistent on that point? Do you really think someone has to earn the right to be protected? We're feminists. We oppose sexism against anyone. We are people of common sense. We oppose Sarah Palin's politics, but we do not want to see her attacked.
If liberals could have pulled off this attitude, with grace, from the start, we wouldn't have to deal with the shit storm she's created. She can now legitimately say that liberals are ok with her being insulted, and we lose. If nothing else, it's poor politics :)
@lolacat:
06/12/09
"Palin being a sexist does not make sexism against her ok."
I don't agree with sexism. I also don't think this is a case of rampant sexism. It's a case of late-night talk show host making shitty jokes, which is what every late-night talk show does. They are equal-opportunity haters.
"Palin being opportunitistic does not make Dave right."
Right about what? He wasn't claiming to be offering facts; he was making jokes. That's his job. He made jokes about McCain being old and ugly - where was this uproar then?
"Palin being a bitch does not make it ok when she's attacked."
Depends on what she's being attacked for. If she's being attacked for being a bitch, then I think it's okay. I know that's not what was happening here, but she wasn't being attacked at all, really. What, the flight attendant joke? What if Tina Fey had made that joke? Would it have been sexist then?
"This piling on does nothing good."
What piling on, exactly? Letterman's not piling on anyone; if anything, she's piling on him by doing the media rounds to address this overblown non-event.
06/12/09
Palin being a sexist makes sexism against her merely more complicated. However, a comedian's jokes is not necesarily bad-sexism in my book. Comedian's get to say the unsayable and it is a healthy thing- when used correctly.
Being opportunistic merely makes her a more desirable target. And since she spends so much of her time enlarging the target she presents in the name of her political career- I just can't care when someone "hits that".
As to being a bitch- ditto, above.
Palin is a moronic example of Repub/fundie politics. She has almost stopped being a person and become a symbol of bad and obstinate politics - in the public consciousness. It's like saying Tom Cruise does not represent all of scientology. Of course, he doesn't. Except when we are using him as an example for all scientologists.
I have trouble defending her on such murky waters. I know, I'm a bitch and a bad feminist but I have to cry estoppel on Palin.
06/12/09
1. By fair game- I mean for critics and comedians to lob word-bombs. John Stewrat gets to lambast. Stephen Colbert can pretend she is his best friend.
2. Yes- some women lose some of the protections of feminism - at least my feminism. Sorry. You act against the interests of women, I'm not going to work really hard to protect you from all the tiny slings and arrows (i.e, telling a woman she is dressed like a slutty stewardess). Also, comedy is not the same as an attack upon one's feminism. If you want to call Linda Hirshman an ignorant slut- be my guest. I'll snicker because it was always funny when Chevy Chase called Jane an ignorant slut. And, I don't like Linda Hirshman.
3. What is the problem with comedians? C'mon. They get a special dispensation from God to say wholly inappropriate things. Would you be at all irritated if all these jokes came from Triumph the Comic Dog. Or would you simply roll your eyes.
4. She wants to be vice-president but she screams misogyny at the stupidest joke. C'mon, put on your big girl panties. If you want to break the shit out of the glass ceiling you need to take the vitriol with more grace, substance, and wit. It's annoyng to me knowing that she is no fan of women's rights but she wants us to come to her defense. That she would happily erode our rights but she doesn't mind using us to whip David Letterman for her and his minor offense of bad jokery. She wants to be a non-feminist- then be one. All the way- don't expect me to help her out when she doesn't like the word-bombs thrown her way.
06/12/09
Humor based on a person's race or sex isn't ok, and feminists who tolerate it when they dislike the target are not doing anyone any favors. Get off her back. You're just making her case for her. @lolacat:
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As a feminist, why is it ok to call a woman in politics a slut? Why should she have a sense of humor? Why is yet another tired joke about her clothes okeydokey with a bunch of people today?
This is exactly like the nappy hair comment Don Imus made, and attacking her will only hurt women. @lolacat:
06/12/09
I agree that a joke about PMS would be more obvious, but "That lady dresses like a tramp," aimed at a former candidate for the vice presidency, is awful. @misspell:
06/12/09
It makes me sad, and I think it makes feminists look bad. At the very least, it gives Palin a fairly good reason to keep talking. @Dizzy8:
06/12/09
I answered your question in the first post, I made. He didn't call her a slut. No one in their right mind believes she is a slut. A lot of people, however, agree that she works the "slutty stewardess" look quite effectively. And, I think purposefully so calling her out on it is not a sin in my eyes. It is part of her platform and purpose to the Republican party. You think they chose her and dressed her that way on accident? No. They spent a lot of money perfecting her look. That makes it fair game to me. Her clothes are part of why she is a crappy politician. She is more concerned with her image and her heels than she is with understanding the economy. Again, a fair point to call her out on.
Finally- Sarah Palin is what she wants to be. She is projecting the image she wants, for her purposes, and to advance her agenda. You want to compare that to nappy hair comments, I will respectfully disagree and leave the race-baiting to you.
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06/12/09
You're really never going to get the basic point: Palin doesn't have to deserve protection from sexism. Comments based on her clothes looking "slutty" are sexist. Her actual clothes are irrelevant.
Slut shaming is not ok. The jokes were slut shaming. That is woman-based humor. Dave's an ass. There is no political or personal upside to letting Dave be an ass to a woman in the public eye.
@lolacat:
06/12/09
You said all that. I never did. I have never called her or her daughter a slut.
I save the term "slut" for close friends. I strictly use the word "whore" for women I don't like.
06/12/09
Please don't claim to know what I think. And please no more with the racial stuff. Your willingness to bang on the racial stereotypes also makes feminism look bad - this discussion should be able to happen without bringing that kind of discourse into it.