I think this comic pretty well covers it. But good on Sally Ride for working to fight these stereotypes. There are still so many social limitations on what women really are "allowed" to do, what is expected to be "natural" for them because of their gender. It's a slow fight to change that. #sallyride
I met Sally Ride in the grocery store when I was 4---she was in uniform and standing behind me in line. I could read at that point, and saw who she was and said "WOW! I KNOW YOU!" She was impressed that I could read, and told me that I could do anything I wanted to do, and never to forget that. I love her. #sallyride
Sorry, I just never experienced this "peer pressure" or societyal stereotypes she's referring to when it came to studying math and science. I was always better at English/Creative Writing/Spelling etc. even though I was encouraged to like and pursue anything.
As a kid my parents, friends and family always got me things like microscopes and science kits for X-mas because that stuff really interested me. But I never was as good at science/math as English and hence I later became a journalism major.
You all can blame society all you want for not pursuing math careers, but I'm not going to. #sallyride
@femme-bot: If there's anything I know I'm supposed to have learned from statistics, it's that one person isn't enough to constitute a sample size from which to conclude a general societal trend.
With that said, I would have agreed with @Armed with Vitriol before I got to college because I was pretty lucky in terms of the family I was born to. But then I got to college and realized that my experience isn't the same as the one that many of my friends have had.
I still treasure the responses she and Dr. Franklin Chang-Diaz sent me in response to my eight-year-old fangirl letters. Thank you, Dr. Ride. #sallyride
I think it is awesome that she founded this organization, however, I don't buy into the whole "women are bad at science and math because society tells them they are" excuse. I think there are genetic and evolutionary reasons men are better at some things and women are better at others. Read Matt Ridley's The Red Queen. #sallyride
Really though, why can't we be happy she's founded this program to encourage girls to pursue math and science if it interests them, and leave it at that? Comments like yours are the reason that she had to found a freaking program to encourage girls in math and science. #sallyride
@Cherry Blossom Girl: Studies show that pretty much the only thing guys are INHERENTLY better at is understanding spatial relationships-- and then, its just that they figure them out a few seconds earlier. With the same training and encouragement, men and women are equally good at science, math, literature, empathy... you get the idea. #sallyride
@thesciencegirl: an excerpt from the link I posted earlier:
Melissa Franklin, a physics professor, said she wished that Harvard had "a president who can add something positive rather than something negative." And while she didn't call for Summers to resign, she said his remarks constituted "a resignable thing."
"The biggest problem with female science students is confidence," Franklin said. "When they are sitting there constantly saying, 'Am I smart enough? Am I smart enough?' it doesn't really help when the president of the university says, 'Maybe you're not.' " #sallyride
When Summers made those comments, I was a college senior across town at an all women's college. I majored in biochemistry, and every day, I went to class with other smart young women in the sciences. And I remember hearing about his remarks, and just wanting to drag him over into one of our classes to tell him where he could shove his theories on our natural aptitude. #sallyride
@Armed with Vitriol: First of all, women are NOT "bad at science and math". Also, the fact of the matter is that there is great societal pressure to keep the status quo, which is why you can find people who will write books skewing data to fit their purposes. Women and girls are discouraged into entering the fields of science and math. Even if males had some genetic advantage, that still would not mean that ALL men were better at math and science than ALL women, so even there, we should still see many more women in those fields than we do. And Sally Ride's organization is trying to address that.
As to your stated point, I really, really, REALY disagree that there are differences. Again, people WANT to believe that the unfairness in the world is justified by something genetic, but time and time again, those ideas have been proven false. #sallyride
@InABook: Nah, not everything in books is true, but I do believe that Ridley has a point.
And I am happy for this organization, as I said in my comment. I just don't agree with her point that society is entirely to blame for the fact that not as many women join careers involving science and math. #sallyride
@all: Careful. This is looking more and more trolly, and you know what they say about troll-feeding. They're like grizzly bears. You give a troll an empty container of cottage cheese and the next thing you know you only have one leg. #sallyride
@thesciencegirl: Nope I'm female, and I used to think along the same lines as everyone else who is attacking me right now so I can't fault you. However, I will say that I find it hard to believe that in a society where women are told they can do anything they want or be whatever they want to be they still overwhelmingly choose "stereotypically" feminine careers. #sallyride
I am expressing my belief (which is backed by scientific evidence) that men are different from women in ways that are not only physical. I am not saying that because of these differences, women should be discouraged from careers in math and science. In fact, I feel quite the opposite. Just because men might possibly have a genetic predisposition to perform better at mathematical tasks does not mean that women cannot be good at math, are stupid at math, etc. I know several very bright women who excel at math.
Perhaps you should step back and stop jumping down my throat, as the commentors on Jezebel are prone to do whenever someone posts an idea they dislike. #sallyride
@Armed with Vitriol: Uh oh, I better go tell all the women in my family to hand back their graduate degrees in science and get on that creative writing already!
Except that they're terrible at creative pursuits, and wonderful at analytical science.
And yes, I'm well aware that anecdotal evidence does not a case make. #sallyride
@Armed with Vitriol: I'm better at math and science than most people I know, regardless of gender. My dad was good at science and my mom always enjoyed math and was good at it. They instilled that notion in me early, so I don't think men are better at those kinds of things because of some genetic reason. I think genetics plays a certain role in aptitude for anyone, but I also think parents and society plays a role in what people learn and are encouraged to learn.
@InABook: There are some spatial skills that women perform better than men, actually. Studies have shown that women are better at memorization. For example, when men and women were asked to memorize the objects in a picture then recall the objects after a certain time, women consistently performed better. #sallyride
@Armed with Vitriol: The info I linked to, the info on the psychology today link that thoughtthinker linked to... did you read either one of those links? #sallyride
I wanted to be Sally Ride soooo bad when I was little. I believe she's the reason I went into a prolonged and obnoxious "GIRL POWER!!!" phase when I was 9
ucelluccia promoted this comment
Edited by Kitten is an 80s rocker at 10/22/09 10:44 AM
Kitten is an 80s rocker was starred
Kitten is an 80s rocker was unstarred
I'm assuming Kate Moss's Vintage perfume smells like mothballs and that undefinable Goodwill smell that prevents me from spending more than a minute in any thrift store.
Gorgeous, inspiring ad. It reminds me of pulp science fiction stories from the 40s and 50s. (Although the LV bag does look a bit out of place.)
Also, swans are vicious buggers. One tried to take off my foot, but luckily I managed to move faster than him. I did get some great photographs of him looking graceful and serene, though.
Having just bought 6 more vintage hats from 1910 to the 1940s in recent weeks, I confidently expect to oust Carla Bruni from her perch as best hat wearer next year. Mind you, I had to smile at the idea that someone based in Luton should be setting themselves up as the arbiter of fashion savoir.UK Jezebels of a certain age will forever remember the advert featuring a cockney girl asked by an English toff whether she had wafted in from paradise. "Nah, Luton airport!" she replies.
Swans/geese are the WORST. You look at those fuckers wrong and they LUNGE AT YOU LIKE SOME JURASSIC PARK SHIT. Seriously, they are like mean little velociraptors. They will fuck. your. shit. up. I hate them. I HATE THEM.
I looked at those pictures of Lily Cole. Can't the girl go out of the house with a ring on any finger she likes and not get crap about how she is attention-seeking or a crap student?
I know, I know- I'm not surprised at the Daily Mail but it seems pretty little to make it across the pond.
Also- Oilily filed for bankruptcy. I'm so, so NOT sad. I was tired of overpriced mother/daughter patchwork velvet spats.
"Swans, they are the meanest animals in the world, you know. I had problems with them as a child. They hate children. I was caught by one, so I know. The idea of swans is lovely, and they have a beautiful shape, but they seem more romantic than they in fact are. I don't think really they die like this. They just drop dead, hmm? But who wants to see that?"
No comment, I just wanted to reread that. Crazy, wonderful Karl.
@lilbobbytables: I've been tearful for the past 36 hours about the murder of George Tiller, but the mental image of Karl being 'caught' by a malevolent swan made me giggle.
"A study in the U.K. found that while women make up 52% of the fashion industry's workforce, they are paid 15% less than their male counterparts, and have only 37% of the top job"
10/22/09
I think this comic pretty well covers it. But good on Sally Ride for working to fight these stereotypes. There are still so many social limitations on what women really are "allowed" to do, what is expected to be "natural" for them because of their gender. It's a slow fight to change that. #sallyride
10/22/09
10/22/09
As a kid my parents, friends and family always got me things like microscopes and science kits for X-mas because that stuff really interested me. But I never was as good at science/math as English and hence I later became a journalism major.
You all can blame society all you want for not pursuing math careers, but I'm not going to. #sallyride
10/22/09
10/22/09
With that said, I would have agreed with @Armed with Vitriol before I got to college because I was pretty lucky in terms of the family I was born to. But then I got to college and realized that my experience isn't the same as the one that many of my friends have had.
10/22/09
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10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
[www.psychologymatters.org] #sallyride
10/22/09
Really though, why can't we be happy she's founded this program to encourage girls to pursue math and science if it interests them, and leave it at that? Comments like yours are the reason that she had to found a freaking program to encourage girls in math and science. #sallyride
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
Melissa Franklin, a physics professor, said she wished that Harvard had "a president who can add something positive rather than something negative." And while she didn't call for Summers to resign, she said his remarks constituted "a resignable thing."
"The biggest problem with female science students is confidence," Franklin said. "When they are sitting there constantly saying, 'Am I smart enough? Am I smart enough?' it doesn't really help when the president of the university says, 'Maybe you're not.' " #sallyride
10/22/09
When Summers made those comments, I was a college senior across town at an all women's college. I majored in biochemistry, and every day, I went to class with other smart young women in the sciences. And I remember hearing about his remarks, and just wanting to drag him over into one of our classes to tell him where he could shove his theories on our natural aptitude. #sallyride
10/22/09
10/22/09
As to your stated point, I really, really, REALY disagree that there are differences. Again, people WANT to believe that the unfairness in the world is justified by something genetic, but time and time again, those ideas have been proven false. #sallyride
10/22/09
10/22/09
And I am happy for this organization, as I said in my comment. I just don't agree with her point that society is entirely to blame for the fact that not as many women join careers involving science and math. #sallyride
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
Perhaps you should step back and stop jumping down my throat, as the commentors on Jezebel are prone to do whenever someone posts an idea they dislike. #sallyride
10/22/09
Except that they're terrible at creative pursuits, and wonderful at analytical science.
And yes, I'm well aware that anecdotal evidence does not a case make. #sallyride
10/22/09
10/22/09
[www.tgdaily.com] #sallyride
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/23/09
10/23/09
[www.sciencedaily.com]
and this...
[www.babycenter.com]
[www.sciencedaily.com]
[www.campbell-kibler.com] #sallyride
10/22/09
06/01/09
06/01/09
Also, swans are vicious buggers. One tried to take off my foot, but luckily I managed to move faster than him. I did get some great photographs of him looking graceful and serene, though.
06/01/09
06/01/09
06/01/09
06/01/09
I know, I know- I'm not surprised at the Daily Mail but it seems pretty little to make it across the pond.
Also- Oilily filed for bankruptcy. I'm so, so NOT sad. I was tired of overpriced mother/daughter patchwork velvet spats.
06/01/09
No comment, I just wanted to reread that. Crazy, wonderful Karl.
06/01/09
06/01/09
06/01/09
Keep on with the crazy, Karl!
06/01/09
"A study in the U.K. found that while women make up 52% of the fashion industry's workforce, they are paid 15% less than their male counterparts, and have only 37% of the top job"