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Forced Marriage Act Frees Doctor

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Jello Mix
12/14/08

In reply to Forced Marriage Act Frees Doctor
My husband's aunt in Colombia married an Indian Muslim. After the wedding, she agreed to go to India on a short visit to meet his parents. Her family heard nothing from her for six years until she managed to flee back to Colombia with her five young children. She has been receiving psychiatric treatment ever since. Apparently her husband's parents were incensed that he married a Catholic and were insanely cruel to her. It is unclear whether her husband knew they would react with such vehemence.
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miacates
12/14/08

In reply to Forced Marriage Act Frees Doctor
I hope she gets back to London before her family believes an honor killing is the way to go.
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ShadowWylde
12/14/08

@miacates: precisely the same thought i had after reading the outcome of the hearing. the father is not happy with it and i suspect will be calling on the males in the family to preserve the honour of the family.

i sincerely hope she has left the vicinity of the family, hightailed it to an airport and flown back to london. she may need to go into hiding now.

look how many honour killings have occurred in the UK over the last couple of years.

this story is not over yet.
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MeganGlass 就是一个古代的三明治
12/14/08

@ShadowWylde: God, I hope it is over. I hope they can just say "oh we lost her to the heathens" and move on.
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Tart of Darkness
12/14/08

In reply to Forced Marriage Act Frees Doctor
I wonder if her parents hadn't done this if she would have gone back to Bangladesh to practice medicine. And if she would consider it now? It saddens me that so many intelligent professional women and men are forced to abandon their countries in order to practice what they've studied when their countries could use their skills.
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queenieinmanhattan
12/14/08

In reply to Forced Marriage Act Frees Doctor
Thank god. I have absolutely nothing against arranged marriages, so long as all the parties are willing - but this is absolute insanity.
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Tart of Darkness
12/14/08

@queenieinmanhattan: To me, this is the hard place in terms of understanding and accepting other cultures. In the west we view these practices through a scrim of western expectations about romantic love and separating from our parents (individuation) is a mark of maturity.

In other cultures the family is the primary unit and one's elders' word is law. Many young people change as they become more westernized for good or ill.

I just know this is part of the reason that fanatical Muslims hate us...this focus on women as separate thinking and choosing individuals.
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queenieinmanhattan
12/14/08

@Tart of Darkness: I like to focus on people, not just women, as individuals.

And, as I said - I'm for arranged marriage, if it's what the people involved want. I think it can lead to successful and happy lives - hell, I've SEEN it lead to happy and successful lives. It's not what I want for me, but if it works for some, that's cool.

I'm not trying to impose my western idea of romantic love on anyone. I'm only concerned when people use their religious or cultural practices as a way to imprison others.
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MeganGlass 就是一个古代的三明治
12/14/08

In reply to Forced Marriage Act Frees Doctor
Oh, thank freakin' god. This case had me so angry. I hope her dad never recovers from the shock. Maybe he'll gain some perspective when she never has anything to do with him again, ever.
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debo matar la zombi goldberry83
12/14/08

In reply to Forced Marriage Act Frees Doctor
Hurray! Crap, I was so worried about this case; I'm so glad that it's been resolved now. As for her father collapsing, I guess it's too much to hope that he might have collapsed out of horror when he realized he would never see his daughter again, having imprisoned her and attempted to force her into marriage. Bastard.
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Sophie needs to study...damn
12/14/08

In reply to Forced Marriage Act Frees Doctor
This story raises huge questions about women who don't have the resources like Dr. Abedin. First, the woman is a DOCTOR and 33 years old, and has a support network outside her family and like-minded community members. I shudder to think about women and girls who do not have such vast resources to bring the force of the state to intervene.
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whatsername
12/14/08

@Sophie needs to study...but isn't: Exactly!

Women have had choice taken away from them. REAL choice. I'm ashamed to say this but my cousin, the psychotic cult member that he is, 'took' a second wife without informing the first or his parents - just rocked up with her one day. First wife was hurt and (I think) wanted out. Her parents basically said to her "well, we can't support you, he is well off...". She's made the 'choice' to stay with him, but ffs, not a real one.
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debo matar la zombi goldberry83
12/14/08

@whatsergem: And there's no chance that she could, for example, divorce him and sue the crap out of him, thus becoming financially independent?
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whatsername
12/14/08

@goldberry83 is solid. Solid like Barack!: This is a question I constantly ask. I don't understand it either and the only thing that makes sense is that religious/cultural dogmas are that much ingrained relative to female subservience?? I really don't know...
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Sophie needs to study...damn
12/14/08

@whatsergem: Ug, I hate stories like your cousin's. If a man wants to take on a second "wife"--which is not Islamically required or recognized by law--he should let his legal wife know before marrying her. There are women who have no problem with this, see [www.npr.org] But for those who do, it's sooo not right for the husband to do so both Islamically and civilly.
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whatsername
12/14/08

@Sophie needs to study...but isn't: I know! Which is why it aggravates me so much because he is hyper religious yet he falls down on this very basic point; that wife needs full information. Also, doesn't wife 1 have veto right too; he has to inform her AND ask her permission??
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Sophie needs to study...damn
12/14/08

@whatsergem: Wife one can stipulate in the marriage contract--which every Muslim is supposed to have--that she be the only wife. Hanafi school of Islamic thought forbid such a prohibition as violating a man' religious perogative but other schools like Maliki permit such prohibition. Also, the man doesn't have to ask permission but he is required to treat each wife equally. Many argue that such a requirement is, in reality, impossible to fulfill and is thus a barrier to taking on multiple wives.

But the whole "marry up to four wives" must be looked at contextually. At the time, men could marry however many they wanted. Plus, the prophet encouraged marriage of divorced women, older women, widowed women. He did so himself (after being in a monogamous relationship with first wife for 25 yrs before she died.) But it seems like today the only time second wives are taken on is when they are younger and to avoid paying the first in a divorce. Bullshit.
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whatsername
12/14/08

@Sophie needs to study...but isn't: Many argue that such a requirement is, in reality, impossible to fulfill and is thus a barrier to taking on multiple wives.

I've always wondered if these requirements, combined with the context (as you described) actually make relatively clear that, because its humanly impossible to do this, you better not choose more than one wife.

But then I also think if they (whoever they are) wanted to be absolutely clear on it, they could've said so.
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Sophie needs to study...damn
12/14/08

@whatsergem: Well, considering the context of 7th century Arabia where girls and women were oftentimes at the mercy of their tribes and families, the prohibition of marrying ONLY 4 wives was a big deal. Before then, you could marry as many as you wanted. That among other reforms were huge departures for the practices of those times and instituted higher standards for the treatment of women and girl-children.

The problem arises when ignorant Muslims think there's no need to strive for higher standards. But only in certain areas. Islam permits slavery but no prominent Muslim thinks we should bring back slavery--we moved on from that. We require a higher standard in humanity. Just like back in the day, Muslims moved behind treating slaves inhumanely. Why can't all Muslims--all people, really--recognize we can require a higher standard in the treatment of women.
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whatsername
12/14/08

@Sophie needs to study...but isn't: This higher standard thing fascinates me. I had a discussion on mutiple wives with a male muslim friend and he defended it only because its there, giving me the oft-repeated economic and protection of women reasons why it was permitted. I don't disagree with these historical reasons, but I want to know why it still happens, or is allowed to by all parties, when this higher standard can be aspired to. I think it means that until the higher standard includes seeing women as whole beings, emotionally, spiritually, psychologically, it will always mean stories like this. Circular, yes. But I have hope in how my sister raises her son and daughter, and multiply this out across society...
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Sophie needs to study...damn
12/14/08

@whatsergem: The whole "economic and protection of women" as why ELECTIVE polygamy is ideal is such bull. Prophet Muhammad was married to one woman Khadija, just one, for 25 years. And she was 15 years older than him (he 25, she was 40). And Khadija had money, not Muhammad. And he worked for HER. And SHE proposed marriage to him. Why Khadija's example isn't held up as the standard is beyond me. But at the end of the day, having multiple wives is NOT required, can be barred from the marriage contractually, and damn impossible to implement since what person could treat multiple partners equally? Im-damn-possible.
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whatsername
12/14/08

@Sophie needs to study...but isn't: Why Khadija's example isn't held up as the standard is beyond me.

I think because control freak guys head's would explode having to think of the Prophet as warrior, leader, sage, ...er prophet and also a man as seemingly comfortable as he was with an independent woman.
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pmarble
12/14/08

In reply to Forced Marriage Act Frees Doctor
Twenty-first century, meet the Middle Ages. This kind of backwards stuff seems to be cropping up everywhere these days. Like the acid attacks on school girls in Afghanistan because girls shouldn't be educated. I think it may be a response to all the free floating fear in the world. Certainly, the social fabric seems to be fraying all around us. Ugh.

On an up note, hooray for the power of international law!
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Sophie needs to study...damn
12/14/08

@pmarble: Nerd sidenote: The Forced Marriage Act is a UK but thankfully the Bangladeshi gov't worked in concert with the British. The Bangladeshi gov't could have ignored the Act as its their right as a soveriegn state.
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gherkinfiend
12/14/08

@Sophie needs to study...but isn't: Hopefully the fact Bangladesh has complied with the Forced Marriage Act will raise awareness of this new law in communities that need it.

A successful outcome like this is the best publicity possible for the Act and should increase confidence in its effectiveness.
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Sophie needs to study...damn
12/14/08

@gherkinfiend: Seriously. The Muslim Arbitration Tribunal, a self-described sharia council set up by Muslims, was established in part to help enforce the Forced Marriage Act among Muslims who try to marry off unwilling women and girls.
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whatsername
12/14/08

@Sophie needs to study...but isn't: Ugh, I had no idea! What do they do to 'enforce', or don't I want to know?

These stories hit too close to home and angers me to the point where I don't think I can make a coherent point. I can just imagine her family sitting there in the wake of this ruling moaning about how corrupted she's become and how the Hindu guy has talked her head over because I've seen this from that side - Its not justice, its sick 'western' values that've encroached on their lifestyle and waaah waah waaah.
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Sophie needs to study...damn
12/14/08

@whatsergem: To 'enforce' the Act is to dissolve marriages made to unwilling women. They're for the Act as in NOT seeing women kidnapped or coerced into marriage. Just because there is a 'Muslim' in the tribunal's name doesn't mean they're evil. They don't want forced marriages anymore than you do.
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whatsername
12/14/08

@Sophie needs to study...but isn't: Ah, I misunderstood.
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whatsername
12/14/08

@Sophie needs to study...but isn't: I misunderstood your sentence, which was my fault even though I read it a couple of times (slow brainday). I never suggested though that 'Muslim' = evil. I admit that I'm in a very difficult space personally regarding 'my'(?) Muslim faith so if I reacted ignorantly I do apologise. I know there are rational people out there in all faiths; just have seen too many examples of sheeple behaviour to make me just want to give up.
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Sophie needs to study...damn
12/14/08

@whatsergem: No apologies needed. I welcome discussions about Islam because it's so popular (1 out of 6 people worldwide identify as Muslim) but so misunderstood and coopted by bullshitters. The more I learn about Islam on my own, it' apparent that the way I perceive Islam to be is too often shaped by ignorant people.
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NefariousNewt
12/14/08

@pmarble: It's not fair to call it "backwards stuff." Her parents were simply operating under a belief system that's been around for hundreds if not thousands of years, and has not yielded to the inevitability of a global community. To us it is "backwards," but to them, it's the way things have always been done. This is no different than any number of belief systems operating in the United States, such as the idea that people of other racial types are "inferior" to white people. We have not eliminated prejudice here, nor have we eliminated "backwards" thinking, and we cannot expect the rest of the world to simply acceded to the idea that what they think is "wrong." This case points up the fact that the world may be more interconnected, but those connections are still tenuous at best.
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whatsername
12/14/08

@Sophie needs to study...but isn't: Thanks for that. I agree.
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MeganGlass 就是一个古代的三明治
12/14/08

@Sophie needs to study...but isn't: Yeah, Islam gets a really bad rap. There's something to what a lot of critics of Quranic scripture say, since it says what it says and there's plenty of horrendously fucked up things in it. But then, so do the Torah and the Bible, and we recognize that people don't take Leviticus literally for the most part, and that the people who do are crazypants and fucking terrifying. It'd be nice if people realized that the muslims you're liable to meet really couldn't care less about converting the heathens by the sword and would rather make sure their rent gets paid, and maybe have some beer money. Praying 5 times a day? Too much work, really. Keeping halal? Meh. Muslims drink as much as anyone provided they live anywhere drinking is allowed. Muslims can party with the rest of us.

Isn't the Muslim arbitration tribunal the same UK group that's trying to get their rulings legally recognized? It seems like it could do some good if their rulings had some legal teeth, but I can well understand the arguments against setting up a second legal system in a country.
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MeganGlass 就是一个古代的三明治
12/14/08

@NefariousNewt: There's something to be said for viewing these things through a lens of relativity, but you say yourself that we haven't eliminated "backwards" thinking here in the US. Don't get me wrong, I don't read your comment as justifying what her parents did, but cultural relativism has to have limits if we want to speed along the demise of this kind of practice. It seems like everyone has their own "backwards" thing or things that they're opposed to because it's "wrong".

You can use the same rhetoric to condone, or at least say "hands off" to FGM, sexism in other societies, all kinds of stuff, you know?
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Sophie needs to study...damn
12/14/08

@MeganGlass: Some argue that the Arbitration Act of 1996, which allows consenting parties to use arbitration instead of litigation to settle issues, already allow such tribunals' rulings to be recognized. But many, many prominent Muslims do not want a second legal system and this is the official stance of the Islamic Sharia Council in London.
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MeganGlass 就是一个古代的三明治
12/14/08

@Sophie needs to study...but isn't: There was a thing on the BBC about it a couple weeks ago, about muslim women in britain using it for their divorces. It was interesting, but the way they presented it made it sound like the council was trying to become established as a second legal system. It mentioned all the muslims who weren't down, but that' interesting they spun it that way. Can't imagine why..

/rolls eyes
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Sophie needs to study...damn
12/14/08

@MeganGlass: I'm writing a paper on this very subject of sharia councils and Muslim women and could talk your ear off. But I'll just say that the topic is interesting.
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ImperfectLit.Woman
12/16/08

@whatsergem: Don't worry about your reaction. I'm feeling the same way you are about the Muslim faith b/c of all the horrible things I hear about people doing arocious things in its name.

I have to remind myself sometimes that's not the religion but the culutre that's the way. There is nothing in Quran that justifies this kind of behaviour but you can bet that culture does.
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Alwaystheangel
12/14/08

In reply to Forced Marriage Act Frees Doctor
I wonder why her parents felt the need to go to such extreme lengths to get her to come home and marry. Where they worried that they wouldn't have anyone to care for them in their old age? Did they think that this would be a more economically stable situation for Abedin than being a doctor in a white country? That's a side of the story I would like to know more about.
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VirtuousVixen
12/14/08

@Alwaystheangel: Her parents were angered that her boyfriend in England is Hindu, while they're Muslim.
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queenieinmanhattan
12/14/08

@VirtuousVixen: You know, an Indian friend of mine (who's Muslim) has been with a Hindu guy on and off for about five years. They both live here in the States, both of their families are back in India.

She's terrified to tell her parents. I don't think she's expecting anything close to this level of panic or manipulation, but I think I'm starting to get why it makes her really, really nervous.
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BelleFree
12/14/08

@Alwaystheangel: It is tragic that they probably think they were asking her to do what they wholeheartedly believe is right. To us, it seems monstrous; but the tradition of arranged marriages when practiced rightly is about making a good match that will benefit both families, and both partners. I am not excusing their methods, but it must be hard for devout members of one faith to countenance the marriage of one of their daughters to someone of another faith.

Congratulations to Dr. Abedin on being strong enough to protest, and to decide for herself what will most benefit her.
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Alwaystheangel
12/14/08

@BelleFree: that was a well rounded response, Bellefree. I was hoping someone would share a similar opinion to me in this regards. Just because her parents did this does not necessarily make them monsters. To us yeah it seems horrible, and to Dr. Adebin it was as well, which she made quite clear and fought it. So evidently the arranged marriage wasn't going to fly with her, but for others, it does. Every culture has a different way of doing things, and sometimes they may seem horrifying and scarring to us, but when you're brought up a certain way, it may not seem that way. There are a number of practices in other cultures that honestly make me want to vomit when I hear about them, but for them that's everyday life and that is how it is. Some cultres, for example, are horrified that babies dont sleep with the parents and believe that to be unequivocally cruel and in humane, we dont' see it that way.

That said. Dr. Abedin did not want the marriage so in this case, arranged marriage is unacceptable.

I think people need to watch and consider the cultural context of a story before judging too quickly.
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G Gordon Liddy
12/14/08

@Alwaystheangel: Cultural relativism doesn't trump universal human rights. Forced marriage is in the same realm of genital mutilation, and is never acceptable.
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queenieinmanhattan
12/14/08

@G Gordon Liddy: Exactly. Arranged marriage does not equal forced marriage, and should not be classed as such. You can consent to one, and not, by definition, to another.
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Alwaystheangel
12/14/08

@G Gordon Liddy: I never said that cultural relativism was always right, in fact I stated that it was boviously NOT ok for Dr. Abedin. Universal rights do need to be protected, absolutely! I would never say anything otherwise. however, there is a need for people to step back and ponder a situation before judging it the moment they hear it. Cultural relativism taken to it's extreme is dangerous, absolutely, but enforcing other cultures upon others is bad too. I just wanted to point out that a situation like this is incredibly multi-faceted and needs to be viewed as such.
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Eyebrows McGee (now with more baby!)
12/14/08

@Alwaystheangel: There was a movie called "The Namesake" ( [www.imdb.com] ) that's about, among other things, an arranged marriage between an Indian couple. It turns out to be a very successful marriage.

One of my students is in Indian woman whose (very happy) marriage was arranged, and she likes this movie because it shows a sympathetic portrait of arranged marriage that is fairly accurate to her experience. Her parents and his both wanted what was best for their children, and the two of them went into marriage with the same expectations and the same values and strong support from both families.

Arranged marriage would definitely *not* be for me, but it's a good movie for getting an understanding of why some people would choose that road.
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pax
12/14/08

@Alwaystheangel: It's not very "multifaceted" if a woman is forced into it against her will. I'm as Western and feminist as they come, but if a woman is into having an arranged marriage and is okay with marrying someone chosen by her family, and knows there are other options available to her but chooses that anyway, I say all the best to her. This is not that. Thus, it's wrong.
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LaComtesse
12/14/08

In reply to Forced Marriage Act Frees Doctor
I so happy Dr. Abedin is out of the situation, but my heart breaks for her because, for the rest of her life, she lives with the fact that her parents did that to her.
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VPea
12/14/08

@LaComtesse: Exactly thats so sad.
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Saltine
12/14/08

@LaComtesse: This situation is horrible, while I realize she will forever feel betrayed by her parents, and rightly so, I am thankful to FSM or whoever that she has been released, I imagine not all are so lucky.

And it is nice to see that global intervention on behalf of women works on occasion and seeing a sad story with a happy ending.
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NefariousNewt
12/14/08

@LaComtesse: And, her parents thought they were doing what was best for her. It's hard to imagine what it's like to have your parents do something because they believe they know what's best for you, even though you are a physician. I'm wondering just how thick the wall is going to become between her and her parents.
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haguenite
12/14/08

In reply to Forced Marriage Act Frees Doctor
Very happy for her, but this must also be so sad for her as well. Her parents wanting to trick her into this... That must hurt.

I hope she has a good support network in London.
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LadySoprano is a Fat-Fighting Superwoman
12/14/08

@haguenite: Good point...it must really hurt. I'm just happy that her rights were restored to her.
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whats_in_a_name
12/14/08

@haguenite: I can't imagine how much that must hurt for her to know that her parents, the two people in the world who should love her the most, would be willing to something so hateful to her.
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Annabellie
12/14/08

@haguenite: What's even sadder is that there's certainly more of a backstory here than we know, and likely her issues with her parents have gone on for years. After all, she did leave her family to live in a country thousands of miles away, and she must have known how strongly her parents objected to the person she was dating. Good for her for being strong enough to stand up for herself and what she believes in!
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sumerfish
12/14/08

@Annabellie: Yeah I'm willing to bet she knew her family was like this. Otherwise it wouldn't have taken a terrible imaginary illness to get her to come home.
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Annabellie
12/14/08

@sumerfish: Yeah, that was my thought, too.
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LadySoprano is a Fat-Fighting Superwoman
12/14/08

In reply to Forced Marriage Act Frees Doctor
Hurrah for some awesome news first thing on a Sunday morning!!

This is a very big step in the right direction. I am so happy for Abedin.
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