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megscissorhands
03/13/09

In reply to Cover-Up
Question: I don't know if anyone can answer this on here, but can CoverGirl legally fire Rhihanna? I understnad letting her contract run out and not re-upping, but WHAT could be in that contract that would allow them to oust her for, basically, doing nothing? Yeah, she's passively accepting a bad situation, but she hasn't actually gone out of her way to snort coke/rob a bank/whatever.
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Sodypop
03/13/09

In reply to Cover-Up
Please help with this question:
when do you stop helping? As in when do you stop enabling the cycle? I mean you tell them "OK I'll always be here and love you and everything else but I can't give money and pickup you up in random places and letting stay here just to see you leave you within hours or maybe days"?
Did I explain myself well? I hope so...
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Princess Leela
03/13/09

@Sodypop: You did. There is a really big distinction between blaming the victim and not wanting to enable someone's choices if they aren't good choices. Not enough people here are making that distinction very well, unfortunately.
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carolpp1005
03/13/09

In reply to Cover-Up
i dont agree with you guys, sorry :( how can a abuse loving woman be a good influnce on our young women?
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Wit is periodically disensouled
03/13/09

@carolpp1005: I've got to object right here to your characterization of Rihanna as an "abuse loving woman." No one here knows what terms she got back together with Chris Brown on, or what she's thinking. We're only speculating based on what we can see on the outside where we're casting people into roles and oversimplifying a complicated situation.

That she's probably not making a good decision is a given, but that's a far cry indeed from being "abuse loving."

All this role model stuff is crap anyway. Why must someone in a makeup commercial be considered a role model? Should I aspire to her bone structure?
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Princess Leela
03/13/09

@carolpp1005: Is that what you really think? That women go back to their abusers because they secretly (or overtly) LOVE BEING ABUSED?
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PreposterousHypothesis
03/13/09

In reply to Cover-Up
The issue that really bothers me here -- she is being judged (by the public, in a public way) on the basis of something entirely private. While I think we can all agree that her decision to take back Chris Brown is a saddening one, the only purpose this serves is to see if public judgment of her private choices will affect their bottom line. She hasn't done anything WRONG -- tragic and ill-advised, yes, but many celebrities have done outright WRONG things and not lost sponsorships. Blaming the victim -- seems to never go out of style.
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bluebears
03/13/09

In reply to Cover-Up
What does everyone think about REVLON, who HAS NO TIES TO RIHANNA, exploiting Rihanna in order to make Cover Girl, their COMPETITOR, look bad? I'm sorry but there is NO EXCUSE for what Revlon is doing.
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elysium_kitschen
03/13/09

@bluebears: Didn't think about that, but I do agree. BUT don't you think that they're making themselves look bad? Or do you think that this kind of underhanded grossness will work and most people aren't as rational as us to see through it?
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bluebears
03/13/09

@elysium_kitschen: I think it'll totally work. look at this discussion, people are just confusing revlon with cover girl (and vice versa) anyway. turns out revlon employs an evil genius somewhere.
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Wit is periodically disensouled
03/13/09

@bluebears: Agreed. I hadn't caught that at first, and now I can't help thinking that's the sleaziest thing I've seen in a while. And I see a lot of sleazy things on a daily basis.
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sassy
03/13/09

@bluebears: I can't see any way that it could benefit Revlon in the end. In the short-term, maybe in some way, but in the long-term it will be hard to look at Revlon and not see that they were willing to exploit an awful situation.
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sybann
03/13/09

In reply to Cover-Up
DAMN! EEEdiots. You think they'd be able to see the obvious tie-in to Cover stick!

This whole thing is vomitous.
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sybann
03/13/09

@sybann: READ PREVIOUS COMMENTS FIRST. I see we share a brain.
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BellaNotte
03/13/09

In reply to Cover-Up
Don't Rihanna and Cover Girl both have the right to do what they feel is best for them? If Rihanna has the right to stay with Chris--which she absolutely does-- doesn't Cover Girl also have the right to do whatever it thinks will best serve its business?

As for questions of penalizing, empathy, judging-- the righteousness of Cover Girl dropping Rihanna-- that's a separate (and also important) discussion. But why should either party feel obligated to cater to the other's needs?
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bess marvin, girl detective
03/13/09

@BellaNotte: it shouldn't and i'm really surprised by the comments on here. it's like no one understands business.
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bess marvin, girl detective
03/13/09

In reply to Cover-Up
what if rihanna was a drug addict and decided to return to her drug of choice? would we get all the outrage here? no.
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Nuckin Futz for you
03/13/09

In reply to Cover-Up
I think this is a very tough decision and there are no winners.
I agree her being abused does not in anyway keep her from doing her job. I agree victims of DV have it hard and its sad she may lose out on things for sticking with chris Brown. I agree it may cause women who are suffering from DV to maybe stop buying from Cover Girl.
However, I do agree she is a spokesmodel for young impressionable girls. And unfortunately as on of America's top ladies and someone with so much talent some of them may look at her and figure if she and Chris can work around him messing her up, they can hold out too and it'll all be ok. So I can see why they would want to distance themselves.
Its sad that Chris isn't losing more in this, he withdrew from the Teen Choice Awards he wasn't kicked off. He has been seen smiling and partying it out since he hit her. It seems his camp is working hard to brush this like crumbs under a carpet. What he did to her is horrific and I feel so much sympathy for her that his bad decision ultimately changed her world and how people view her. I wish she would leave him and be safe but as someone who stayed in an emotionally abusive relationship, and lets face it I doubt he just hit her and has never emotionally abused her as well, its so hard to leave someone you think you love and she may feel he needs her now more then ever.
Ending thought, this whole thing just makes me so sad.
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Laines
03/13/09

In reply to Cover-Up
Please, someone explain this to me so I can understand. I have read all the posts and comments and I still don't get it. Whenever I see a response that I read as "Rhi made a bad decision that will hurt her and I choose not to support her business because of it" they seem to be dismissed with "Nice blaming the victim, bitch, kthnxbai."

There are many artists and shows that I make decisions about giving or withholding my support due to many different reasons. Why am I not allowed to choose here? Aren't we trying to make this issue less taboo? Why is it held to a different standard?

I really want to understand but as you see I really don't.
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Princess Leela
03/13/09

@Laines: I guess for me the key question here is how much of a decision (ie, a course of action taken with a clear head, unencumbered by psychological manipulation, etc) is she really making by staying with him. The answer is that none of us can know, which is why statements that she is condoning her own abuse, and therefore deserves to be professionally shunned, bother me so much.
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Laines
03/13/09

@Princess Leela: Okay, I can see how that would play into it. You're right. We'll never know the details. Here's where I get all tripped-up in my brain: by not judging / excusing her choice to return to work & live with her abuser because of the abuse aren't we effectively reducing her entire existence to "DV victim?" She is too controlled and beaten to be responsible for anything? Or is that just what the media is feeding us?

Ugh. Thanks for responding, but I spend so much time thinking about this and I just get more confused.
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Princess Leela
03/13/09

@Laines: I guess I have been focusing more on the danger of morally equating her bad decision with his, but you have a really good point. There is also a danger of reducing her only to the status of victim.
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bluebears
03/13/09

In reply to Cover-Up
Ok seriously everyone, WHY is Revlon conducting this survey? Like, as a favor to Cover Girl? Like, hey fyi we did a little research for ya. I am totally lost.
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BellaNotte
03/13/09

@bluebears: I wondered that too. To me, it smacks of exploiting Rihanna's situation to make Cover Girl look bad.
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bluebears
03/13/09

@BellaNotte: I wish more people were talking about how in the wrong Revlon is here. Exploiting this situation to make tarnish their competitors image.
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Louisa Lee
03/13/09

In reply to Cover-Up
how could anyone be okay with her sending, through silence, the message to girls that it is okay to be beaten by your boyfriend and stay in the situation? that is what she is doing, and that is who buys products based on her endorsement.
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Khrushchev
03/13/09

@Louisa Lee: Then those girls need a better education of what domestic abuse is and how it can affect a person. It's not Rihanna's responsibility to educate them, even though one might wish she was the one able to.
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Princess Leela
03/13/09

@Louisa Lee: No one is saying we're happy about such a message, but these kinds of comments suggest that him beating her up and her not leaving him over it are morally equivalent acts.

THEY ARE NOT. Let's not confuse things here. She is the victim, physically and psychologically.

Anyway, if girls really are sitting there thinking, "Rihanna's still the Cover Girl, so domestic violence must be cool!" then dang, can't their parents/relatives/teachers/clergypeople take the damn opportunity to tell them otherwise??
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hatepaperdoll
03/13/09

In reply to Cover-Up
I don't understand what Revlon is going to do with this information. If they do find out that Rihanna is hurting CoverGirl's sales, are they going to market Revlon as the brand with the spokesperson "Who didn't go back to her abusive boyfriend, you know who we mean. Wink, wink..."
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bluebears
03/13/09

@hatepaperdoll: haha, right? I don't get it.
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meritxell: an erotic life
03/13/09

In reply to Cover-Up
That picture with Rihanna all downturney-eyed with the Cover Girl caption is kind of beautiful. This will never happen, but I would love it if Cover Girl took this controversy and did something really subversive with it to promote domestic violence awareness.
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Khrushchev
03/13/09

In reply to Cover-Up
THIS IS MADDENING. SOME OF THESE COMMENTS ARE MADDENING. I AM ABOUT TO START SCREAMING WITH RAGE AND HITTING THINGS WITH MY FISTS.
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Khrushchev
03/13/09

@Khrushchev: Things, not people. Pillows and stuff.
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mllej
03/13/09

@Khrushchev: NO KIDDING. Time to walk away.
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sassy
03/13/09

@Khrushchev: A lot more caps than I would have used, but exactly what I'm feeling. I wish there was a way to share through the internet, because I'm drowning my anger in food.
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Khrushchev
03/13/09

@sassy wants her own tenth Doctor: I mean, I hope to fucking God that none of the friends or loved ones of some of these commenters ever find themselves in a situation as complicated as domestic abuse, because they're not gonna find a lot of empathy there.
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Ratinski
03/13/09

@Khrushchev: I sincerely hope that none of these commenters ever have to deal with DV if this is indicative of the attitudes of people who surround them.
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sassy
03/13/09

@Khrushchev: I feel like a lot of the reason why people can be so callous is because this doesn't have any bearing on their lives. If it was someone close to them, do you think they would still be justifying this as fucked up/what have you? To me, it seems like a lot of people won't know how horrible DV is until they experience it in some personal way.

At least, I'm telling myself that, so that I don't lose total faith in the world.
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Laines
03/13/09

@Khrushchev: You know what? I was a victim of DV and so were members of my family and friends. I do not agree with your interpretation of this situation. Obviously others don't either. That is what a discussion is about. The "I'm so much smarter and above the rest of these idiots" does nothing to help communication.
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Princess Leela
03/13/09

@Khrushchev: Yeah, I just heard my quota and then some of "She's obviously condoning her abuse by staying with him." I'm out. Got work to finish up anyway.
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Khrushchev
03/13/09

@Laines: Listen, I am getting probably overly angry at all of this. I'm sorry that you were a victim of domestic violence, and the same for your friends and family. I, obviously, have an emotional reaction to it. And you're right--to have an attitude of "I am right, you are wrong" is not the way to go here. I don't actually feel that way. It's frustrating me though to find what I think is a lack of empathy on the part of some of the commenters here. No one knows exactly what Rihanna's going through right now, and it bothers me to see her being held accountable for a decision which, I think, is the result of serious psychological abuse. I'm sorry for my tone, though.
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samethingwedoeverynightpinky
03/13/09

@Khrushchev: I think a lot of us have lived through watching a friend or relative be abused. And it is maddeningly frustrating to be telling someone how much you love them, how much better they can do, to be offering them a place to live and money to support themselves and a shoulder to cry and to see them go back and be abused again and again, to see them use your support money to bail the abuser out of jail or buy his plane ticket to the city you've invited them to to be safe. It makes loved ones feel helpless to, to see someone concealing evidence of abuse, lying to the police when you call them after the whole family sees what he did. It makes people angry, when relatives risk injury to go confront the abuser and physically remove him, and the woman calls the cops on her family, not the asshole. I understand that it is dangerous to leave. I understand that for many women it is impossible. But when you are doing everything to make it possible, and the abuse victim is actively plotting against you, it's hard. There is a point at which only the abuse victim can say enough already, and you can't try to get her there anymore if she won't go. I think seeing Rihanna, who has resources in place to get away, not avail herself of them, is triggering for a lot of people precisely because they have lived through this, and it's exhausting and draining, and I don't want to think about it when I think about music or makeup. Obviously, the five years my cousin spent covering for a guy who kept beating the shit out of her and threatening to kill her and her kids, even though he was on probation and one phone call would have ended the immediate danger, were harder on ehr and her kids than anyone else. But you know what, it was fucking hard on the rest of us too, not knowing every night whether this would be the phone call we'd get telling us they were all dead, being cursed out and told we didn't understand, being called liars and having her threaten to prosecute us for making "false police reports."
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ellaesther
03/13/09

@Khrushchev: @Laines: This, this right here, this is what will save the Internet. This is why I love this site. The passion, the honesty, and the consideration. Thank you guys for being cool. Khrushchev, I would friend you again if I could, and Laines, I'm clicking on your little heart as soon as I hit submit.
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ellaesther
03/13/09

@samethingwedoeverynightpinky: I'm so sorry for all this. I'm having a similar situation with a person who I love very much who is refusing to get honest about their substance abuse, and it is so, so painful to watch, and so enraging some days, when other innocent lives get caught up in the danger. Or when you find yourself defending yourself for having behaved in an entirely rational, reasonable -- indeed, loving -- fashion. Detachment is the ideal, but sometimes it is well-nigh impossible. Abuse and addiction are different situations, but what the loved ones go through appears to be very similar some days.

God bless you for the love you have shown your cousin.
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samethingwedoeverynightpinky
03/13/09

@ellaesther: Thank you. She did finally get out of that relationship, and the guy is in jail, and she's in a positive relationship and has actually been blogging about the Rihanna situation and how wrong it is for anyone to defend Chris Brown, and I've been really proud of her. And it makes me wonder what it would have taken or what we could have done to help her find this side of herself sooner, you know? I guess because I give her credit for all of the good choices she made, it's hard for me to see her as completely lacking agency when she made the bad choices. I've also, unfortunately, been through this with my best friend from high school. I'm pretty sure it wasn't the first time, but her boyfriend hit her and threatened her. She put him out and immediately filed for a restraining order, and I went with her to court because she was terrified to go alone, and even though it was one of the saddest moments of my life, to see someone so vibrant be so scared, I have never been prouder of another human being in my life than I was of her that day, or when she stood up to him in court after he sued her for *her* furniture. She made hard, terrifying choices, and I guess I can't buy into the abuse victims have no choice at all and no agency line of thinking without thinking I'm taking something away from the difficulty of the choices I've seen people make when they did leave. It's hard sometimes to find the line between unconditional support and enabling. And I know Rihanna is not my cousin or my best friend and maybe she doesn't have a good emotional support system and I'm probably projecting too much in being angry at her for defending him and recording a duet and working to save his career, but it is coming from a place of love and confusion and wishing I knew what to do to get women like her to see themselves the way I do, not from a lack of empathy.
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