Sorry, Rosalind. I have no interest in confronting my former bully who continues to bully in the workplace (recently she had an underling fired for reasons none of us can understand). What I wanted was help for how I accept that this girl is now a supervisor, not how I work better with her (we are on different shifts). She sent me death threats. Asking me to reflect on how that hurt me is fatuous. #rosalindwiseman
The first one would work well with reasonable people in a well-run office, but if our jobs were so great, we wouldn't have these problems. This one woman at work has been passive agressively harrassing me with snide remarks, undoing little things I do, playing the martyr when I ask her to do things we all have to do. But she's fucking insane. There's no talking to her, she'd key my car. #rosalindwiseman
I don't mean to be a buzzkill, and maybe I should put this in an email, but I come to Jezebel for the great, thought-provoking writing. Not videos. I've already started skipping some of my favorite items - Mad Med recaps, Midweek Madness - because of the change in format. Ever since you posted about the Queen Bee interview this past weekend, I've been looking forward to the Q&A and reading what the author had to say. But I read most of this content during my workday, and I don't have the time or inclination to sit and watch this video, and now I'll be skipping this, too. I realize you get paid per view and are probably just catering to the dumbing-down of the rest of America, but you are losing one intelligent reader right here. #rosalindwiseman
@Lulubell: I always skip video items as well because of the inconvenience, but let's be real--there have been video items on Jezebel for a really long time and they're generally pretty popular. Pot Psychology, Crappy Hour (technically not video, but it's in some spiffy visual scroll format), Tracie's Friday entertainment wrap-ups. And lots of posts are just videos with a line or two of commentary. So I'm not sure how video commentary represents the "dumbing down" of Jezebel or America. #rosalindwiseman
@Lulubell: Rosalind asked to respond to the questions posed by Jezebel readers via video because it was easier for her--she's really busy right now since her book just came out. That was the only consideration, really--it was either respond by video or nothing, so we chose video. #rosalindwiseman
Really like her advice, though it's definitely not easy, as Wiseman acknowledges. I feel like I have a hundred more questions to ask her. Is she going to do more of these?
I feel like I have a few friendships that are still stuck in some of the same patterns (albeit about different things) that we were sometimes in in 7th grade. And I think the passive aggressive behavior only gets worse and more ingrained as we get older. I find myself not even knowing where to begin calling out (friend we'll call "Shelly") because I (not sure why) continue to be shocked time and time again at the way she refuses to accept responsibility for anything she does and never ever seems apologetic.
Also, @slowpoke.r, definitely am in your shoes all the time where I end up apologizing for my own feelings. And then after the failed confrontation I just get so upset, like what is my problem? #rosalindwiseman
I am an avoider and am working to change this but…I have a co-worker with whom I have an established pattern where she pisses me off (both personality and professional conflicts) and then I push it down and stew for a while, all the time ignoring her, being condescending and bitching with a friend. The problem with being open and honest is that she is both insensitive towards others and hyper-sensitive towards herself (a deadly combination.) She cries a lot.
I just don’t know how to set the "reset" button. It’s clear she’s not going anywhere for a few years and neither am I. How to you change the way you deal with someone once you’re locked into a pattern? #rosalindwiseman
Just a question re her advice in the first clip about going to HR for serious issues - has anyone done this and did it work?
I ask because at the organisations I've worked at, HR was generally known as rumour central or the hatchet team for restructuring. They seemed okay at helping employees find work counsellors, but not really at helping people deal with power structures. The one or two people I've known who went to them with boss problems didn't feel helped; it was more the HR team smothered the problem and left unspoken grievances between that person and their boss. #rosalindwiseman
@lo-mantang: I did. It did not go well. HR works for the company, not for the employees. I hate to say it, but strictly based on my experience,(and the objective logic that they are company employees whose job it is to protect the company) I would strongly advise against going to HR with boss problems. #rosalindwiseman
@Beckysharpstick: Word. HR is not your friend. You might as well look to the company's lawyers for help.
On that note, I think it's important to put grievances in writing, e.g. an email. If push comes to shove, you don't want any he said/she said drama. #rosalindwiseman
@lo-mantang: I did but they told me there was nothing they could do because the company was so small there were no other people who could be my manager.
I got fired shortly thereafter for a series of made-up reasons, but I don't blame the visit to HR for that. That would have happened anyway as I had a Mean Girl for a boss. #rosalindwiseman
@Beckysharpstick: Thanks. I guess that leaves staff with personal grievance laws (which are being watered down currently in the country I live in so yay, team psycho boss). #rosalindwiseman
@Beckysharpstick: Well, yes but just as you could have a great boss you could also have a great HR team. A good HR team would resolve the issues in a private, fast matter since their job is to protect the company. If you have good case and documentation of HR not resolving your problems, then you can go to a lawyer and the co. would probably lose the case, costing the a great deal of money. And they would be fired.
I have worked with terrible HR people and with terrific ones: the amount of crap that they deal day in and day out is amazing. #rosalindwiseman
@lo-mantang: No, not really. I've never worked anywhere where HR did anything other than cut the checks and nag you to get your paperwork in. #rosalindwiseman
Confrontations are so hard but so necessary sometimes. There's a really good book called Fierce Conversations that I read about a year or so ago and while not all of it was useful and some of it was rooted in self-help fairy land (where you read it and say "That would NEVER happen") but it's useful for the sense that it really explains why you need to have difficult conversations sometimes and the best ways to bring up difficult subjects in a mature way. #rosalindwiseman
That second video was great advice for anyone who has to confront someone from their past, whether in a work environment or not. The "I feel my feelings" bit wasn't really me (it would not sound natural coming out of my mouth) but in general it's absolutely the right response. People will turn it around and place the blame on you for "overreacting" or whatever word they choose. Don't let them diminish the hurt you felt. Maybe they didn't "mean it that way" but they did do/say it and it did cause a certain reaction from you. Don't let them pull a blame the victim switcheroo. I've had it done on me before!! #rosalindwiseman
@rodmanstreet: So hard to follow, though! I tried to talk to a friend about some ongoing highly annoying and confusing passive aggressive behavior last weekend and he managed to turn it right back onto me. Dammit.
I like to think I would have been able to call him on it then if I didn't have this horrid head cold, but instead I apologized for my feelings so now I feel completely manipulated in addition to confused and annoyed. Guess I should take him out for a drink and try again...ironic considering that his possible alcoholism is a major part of the problem. #rosalindwiseman
@slowpoke.r: Sounds like your friend wins the passive aggressive prize for the week! If alcohol is part of the problem, then yeah, taking him out for a drink is probably a bad idea. Why not take him bowling? That way if things get really bad at least you have something heavy to accidentally drop on his foot! (I kid, I kid.) I hope you figure out how to handle it - good luck! #rosalindwiseman
@rodmanstreet: It is seriously tempting to drop something on him... he has a real gift for turning things around and for being just generally frustrating to talk to. I've recently taken to asking him (nicely) what he means about every third sentence, because he talks in some sort of code that normal humans can't possibly understand, it's all subtlety and allusion. Anyway, maybe I'll take him for coffee, and thanks for the good wishes! #rosalindwiseman
Oh, man. I went to counseling for MONTHS because of trouble being assertive at work. My problem was mostly with my boss, but the advice my therapist gave me is similar to Rosalind's. As soon as I started being assertive and just saying exactly what bothered me and what I wanted done instead, it made me feel so much better AND it was incredibly effective! #rosalindwiseman
Often when I address a problem rationally, and tell someone respectfully why I'm upset and what I'd like to change, it fucking freaks people out. Why does it so often feel like I'm the only person who's heard of this? ("This" being rational, straight-forward honesty!) #rosalindwiseman
@Susan B.: People are not used to that. I used to be a PT manager at a retail store & once I really screwed up a big floor move. Really majorly screwed it up.
When I talked with the Assist Manager, I told her truthfully & honestly what had happened, how I screwed up & how I did not plan on doing it ever again.
She could not deal. She started talking bad about me behind my back to some of the other managers about my screw up & basically made it clear that she had expected a lot more groveling & apologizing as opposed to the rational discussion/reasons I laid out for her. I did not/still do not get how owning up to my mistakes & talking about how I plan on not repeating them was not the right answer. #rosalindwiseman
@Susan B.: Don't you know that you're supposed to solve work problems by writing passive-aggressive emails and copying the person's manager? #rosalindwiseman
@merely_a_muse: Yes! I'd forgotten about rational apologies. I'd so much rather spend my emotional energy getting things right in the future than groveling and crying. I guess people don't think you're being genuine unless you're on the verge of killing yourself. #rosalindwiseman
@Susan B.: It really depends on the culture of the workplace - a lot of places, there must always be a patina of pleasantness washed over any confrontation. Other places, assertiveness is most rewarded.
I think the trick is to really clarify what you see as the problem, and what you need cooperation in fixing, and diplomatically try to engage the other person in working for resolution. In other words, describe the issues you see holding you up, and involve the other person in the solution. This is less likely to trigger defensiveness, and gives them some stake in a positive outcome. #rosalindwiseman
I received death threats on girls on IM. These girls were in my gym class and didn't like me. They said I was "annoying and should watch myself." The police got involved but nothing ever came of it. If it weren't for the internet, I would have only been objected to a few passive aggressive comments in the locker room.
How do you deal with it if the bully is your boss? Ultimately I left, but I wonder if there is anyway to handle it and improve the situation in case next time I have a boss like that I actually enjoy the work I'm doing. She was passive aggressive, took credit for my work and gave me all the blame for anything that went wrong even when she had signed off on it. She was also inappropriately friendly and controlling over one of my co-workers, basically making her job dependent on going to events with her outside working hours, inviting herself to this girl's apartment to use her cable, and having her perform tasks outside her job description. Neither of us were ever able to stand up to her and we both quit.
I know that some people have terrible problems with bullying, but I just graduated HS in June and I never, ever had issues that were terrible like this. No one I know is nasty on facebook, hardly anyone dealt with clique problems- we didn't even really have cliques at all. I was a member of many different groups of friends and, like most people, I floated between them with no problems at all.
I'm worried that some parents read this and get terrified that their girls will automatically have a horrible time, but that's really not true. It happens some places, but definitely not everywhere.
My mean girl-ness mostly took the form of not speaking up for someone when I knew I should have. Looking back, it's almost as bad as directly picking on someone. There are a lot of particular instances that haunt me. I wish I had had the guts to stand my ground. All I can do now is not become a mean woman, which there are plenty of in the office. Office politics are ridiculous and too often people use the "this stuff goes on in every office" excuse. I've found that to be true so far, but let's dare to be different. I say this to mean men, too.
10/24/09
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10/22/09
I feel like I have a few friendships that are still stuck in some of the same patterns (albeit about different things) that we were sometimes in in 7th grade. And I think the passive aggressive behavior only gets worse and more ingrained as we get older. I find myself not even knowing where to begin calling out (friend we'll call "Shelly") because I (not sure why) continue to be shocked time and time again at the way she refuses to accept responsibility for anything she does and never ever seems apologetic.
Also, @slowpoke.r, definitely am in your shoes all the time where I end up apologizing for my own feelings. And then after the failed confrontation I just get so upset, like what is my problem? #rosalindwiseman
10/22/09
I just don’t know how to set the "reset" button. It’s clear she’s not going anywhere for a few years and neither am I. How to you change the way you deal with someone once you’re locked into a pattern? #rosalindwiseman
10/22/09
I ask because at the organisations I've worked at, HR was generally known as rumour central or the hatchet team for restructuring. They seemed okay at helping employees find work counsellors, but not really at helping people deal with power structures. The one or two people I've known who went to them with boss problems didn't feel helped; it was more the HR team smothered the problem and left unspoken grievances between that person and their boss. #rosalindwiseman
10/22/09
10/22/09
On that note, I think it's important to put grievances in writing, e.g. an email. If push comes to shove, you don't want any he said/she said drama. #rosalindwiseman
10/22/09
I got fired shortly thereafter for a series of made-up reasons, but I don't blame the visit to HR for that. That would have happened anyway as I had a Mean Girl for a boss. #rosalindwiseman
10/22/09
10/22/09
I have worked with terrible HR people and with terrific ones: the amount of crap that they deal day in and day out is amazing. #rosalindwiseman
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
I like to think I would have been able to call him on it then if I didn't have this horrid head cold, but instead I apologized for my feelings so now I feel completely manipulated in addition to confused and annoyed. Guess I should take him out for a drink and try again...ironic considering that his possible alcoholism is a major part of the problem. #rosalindwiseman
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
When I talked with the Assist Manager, I told her truthfully & honestly what had happened, how I screwed up & how I did not plan on doing it ever again.
She could not deal. She started talking bad about me behind my back to some of the other managers about my screw up & basically made it clear that she had expected a lot more groveling & apologizing as opposed to the rational discussion/reasons I laid out for her. I did not/still do not get how owning up to my mistakes & talking about how I plan on not repeating them was not the right answer. #rosalindwiseman
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
I think the trick is to really clarify what you see as the problem, and what you need cooperation in fixing, and diplomatically try to engage the other person in working for resolution. In other words, describe the issues you see holding you up, and involve the other person in the solution. This is less likely to trigger defensiveness, and gives them some stake in a positive outcome. #rosalindwiseman
10/14/09
10/13/09
How do you deal with it if the bully is your boss? Ultimately I left, but I wonder if there is anyway to handle it and improve the situation in case next time I have a boss like that I actually enjoy the work I'm doing. She was passive aggressive, took credit for my work and gave me all the blame for anything that went wrong even when she had signed off on it. She was also inappropriately friendly and controlling over one of my co-workers, basically making her job dependent on going to events with her outside working hours, inviting herself to this girl's apartment to use her cable, and having her perform tasks outside her job description. Neither of us were ever able to stand up to her and we both quit.
10/13/09
I'm worried that some parents read this and get terrified that their girls will automatically have a horrible time, but that's really not true. It happens some places, but definitely not everywhere.
10/13/09