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New York, 6:54 PM
Mon Nov 9
43 posts in the last 24 hours
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10/27/09
This happened to my best friend and I at a bar we always went to (thought it was a safe place - first mistake!) while we were in college. We left our drinks on the bar to go feed the jukebox, which seemed fine to us (see above!). On the way back, a couple dudes who always were hitting on us, but who seemed like okay dudes from the brief history with them, basically blocked us and were insistent we have a chat right there (tolerating annoying and, as it turns out, rapey dudes - second mistake!).
I will never forget the sensation of physical and mental paralysis while sitting on a bar stool, after having a single drink, then having no memory at all until I woke up the next morning. After eventually reconnecting with my friend, and trying to figure out what on earth had happened for hours on end, we figured we needed a third party's perspective. We went back to said bar, at which time the door man (who we'd known from going there all the time) laughed about how "f'd up" we'd been the prior evening, then advised us that we'd gotten into a cab with several boys many, many hours before we awoke later, and that was all we could find out.
Still wish I knew what happened that night, but I do know that most of the guys we knew were convinced that nothing could have happened, and that we just drank too much (being friends with dudes who acted like fratty dicks while maintaining their good times indie cred -- third mistake!) So apparently not much has changed in the past 12 years or so.
Good times. #daterapedrugs
10/27/09
It's awful and it should not be treated so dismissively. #daterapedrugs
10/27/09
10/27/09
A lot has been said about how to prevent rape. Women should learn self-defense. Women should lock themselves in their houses after dark. Women shouldn't have long hair and women shouldn't wear short skirts. Women shouldn't leave drinks unattended. Fuck, they shouldn't dare to get drunk at all.
Instead of that bullshit, how about:
If a woman is drunk, don't rape her. If a woman is walking alone at night, don't rape her. If a women is drugged and unconscious, don't rape her. If a woman is wearing a short skirt, don't rape her. If a woman is jogging in a park at 5AM, don't rape her. If a woman looks like your ex-girlfriend you're still hung up on, don't rape her. If a woman is asleep in her bed, don't rape her. If a woman is asleep in your bed, don't rape her. If a woman is doing her laundry, don't rape her. If a woman is in a coma, don't rape her. If a woman changes her mind in the middle of or about a particular activity, don't rape her. If a woman has repeatedly refused a certain activity, don't rape her. If a woman is not yet a woman, but a child, don't rape her. If your girlfriend or wife is not in the mood, don't rape her. If your step-daughter is watching TV, don't rape her.
If you break into a house and find a woman there, don't rape her. If your friend thinks it's okay to rape someone, tell him it's not, and that he's not your friend. If your "friend" tells you he raped someone, report him to the police. If your frat-brother or another guy at the party tells you there's an unconscious woman upstairs and it's your turn, don't rape her, call the police and report him as a rapist.
Tell your sons, god-sons, nephews, grandsons, and sons of friends that it's not okay to rape someone.
Don't just tell your women friends how to be safe and avoid rape. Don't imply that she could have avoided it if she'd only done/not done x, y, or z. Don't imply that it's in any way her fault. Don't let silence imply agreement when someone tells you he "got some" with the drunk girl. Don't perpetuate a culture that tells you that you have no control over or responsibility for your actions. You can too help yourself. Rape is not about sex, it's about control and power, and what kind of power comes from taking advantage of others? No power anyone should ever desire.
If you agree, repost it. It's important. #daterapedrugs
10/27/09
10/27/09
10/27/09
Sometimes you have to lead a horse to water. Men who rape need to realize when the rape occurs because while they may agree no means no they don't seem to understand the diverse and full range of No's that a woman has in her repertoire. No isn't just no but so is indecisiveness, incohernece, and passive brushing off. #daterapedrugs
10/27/09
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10/27/09
That said, I wish I would get more mass emails like this from female family members/colleagues/acquaintances i foolishly gave my email to, and less of the 'OMG DON'T GO OUTSIDE AT NIGHT GIRLS, DON'T DO IT!!!!' type... #daterapedrugs
10/27/09
10/28/09
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10/28/09
Regardless of whether you "see how" it's rape, however, the law does. #daterapedrugs
10/27/09
10/27/09
10/27/09
Being drugged by one of these cocktails is so vastly different than being drunk.
You're not tipsy-- you're disoriented. You're not slurring your words--you're unable to form coherent thoughts.
You're not just walking awkwardly-- you're unable to physically control your body.
You don't just "black out"-- you forget what happened to you.
Don't minimize these drugs. And even if they only happen in 5% of cases (reported and accurately tested cases), 5% is too much. I'm sorry, I have a no tolerance policy on rape. I think the Daily Fail should try to aspire to that standard. #daterapedrugs
10/27/09
I can tell you this; the general response would be to trivialize the situation that she had too much to drink and hey, it’s not like she was raped anyway so get over it. This in itself is enough to stop the average woman from going to the police when she is already feeling scared and sick and just wants to go home. This happens more often then anyone cares to admit. THAT sirs, makes your argument regarding low drug statistics as evidence of low drugging activity invalid.
Argh! This sort of thing makes me so angry!
/sorry for the rant #daterapedrugs
10/27/09
I was convinced that my ex-boyfriend was drugging me. After one blackout night, I slugged over to the health center and wanted them to do a specified drug test so I could file a report. They spent 2 hours trying to convince me that it was a waste of money and that I was likely just hungover. The police officer was dismissive and acted like I was wasting his time, even when the test came back positive.
We cannot perpetuate this attitude. Just because it's a low percentage of rape cases, doesn't mean we should accept the behavior. It should not happen. PERIOD. #daterapedrugs
10/27/09
It's fucking insane. We already know that rapes are under-reported. Further, that rapes that involve partners, alcohol, or drugs are hardly ever prosecuted. So WHY, again, could anyone be expected to press charges or make reports when a) nobody will take them seriously and b) it seems as if nothing will come of it?
Low stats reflecting reality? I repeat: fucking insane. #daterapedrugs
10/27/09
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10/27/09
well, duh. when someone is spiking my drink, someone is clearly demonstrating intent to do something bad to me, probably sexually assault. when i drink to much, i don't have any intention of being sexually assalted. so yea, i would say drink-spiking is a much more important risk. #daterapedrugs
10/27/09
Wow, Daily Mail! You certainly are tenacious. Just when I think I can't dislike you more, WHAM! You prove me wrong. #daterapedrugs
10/27/09
D'uh, but still, at least someone's saying it.
[blogs.telegraph.co.uk] #daterapedrugs
10/27/09
10/27/09
[blogs.telegraph.co.uk]
Good points that Rohypnol is about the least likely thing to be used these days as a mickey. Women are scared about drink spiking, but not particularly well informed. More education (and less drink spiking) is needed.
And the blogs won't let me leave an irate comment. Boo! #daterapedrugs
10/27/09
Hell, the quotes are barely even assertive.
It does, however, raise a basic point that people forget: Simply being drunk is hazardous. If it weren't, we (and the rest of the world) wouldn't have DUI laws, and laws banning public intoxication; Bars would not be liable for overserving people and there would not be age-restrictions on consumption. Just drinking too much alcohol is fatal, and kills a number of people every year. By drinking, you are reducing your own safety and potentially that of those around you. You are altering the odds, however incrementally.
That is not to say that a woman who is drunk is to blame, as the article strongly implies, for the consequences of drinking, simply because there is no-one actively poisoning her (as Mr. Pitcher so aptly notes in the article you've linked).
There is a difference between blame and responsibility in social interactions. Blame has an implication of guilt and shame, and a more direct causal relationship. It is a mechanism that offers an illusion of explanation, and identifies and scorns whoever it's directed towards, forsaking any other factors and existing outside the limits of logic.
Responsibility, however, is always shared, no matter the proportion. It is our responsibility to maintain some level of personal safety. It is our responsibility to aid in ensuring others' personal safety. It is by exercising these responsibilities that we move toward a more understanding, less violent, and more productive future, eventually removing the language of blame from the conversation. #daterapedrugs
10/28/09
We move towards a less violent, more understanding and more productive future when people stop thinking they are entitled to rape.
10/28/09
I have blamed no one, apologized for no one, "spun" nothing, and in no way denied that rape is a devastating crime that needs to be eliminated. A victim is not responsible for being raped.
I don't agree with you or the Father, however, that anyone is entitled to drink to excess - it endangers the drinker and others around them. The law, doctors, and common sense are in agreement here: when alcohol is involved, people behave more dangerously - people are more likely to rape, people are more susceptible to rape.
Those are simple facts - that have no bearing on "blame." #daterapedrugs
10/28/09
10/28/09
10/27/09
1) A woman who has been drugged comes into the ED 2-3 days later because she realizes 'something happened' - don't forget that both of these drugs - most especially rohypnol causes amnesia (that's one of the reasons it's not approved for use in US). GHB and rohypnol are out of the system in 48 hours or less. The average time, in my experience of these victims coming in was about 3 days later. If they come in at all.
2) a woman is found unconscious and brought into the ED. a drug tox is done - BUT! GHB and rohypnol are not tested for in routine drug screens - that is a specialized forensic drug screen that 99 times out of 100 needs to be sent out and when it does, there needs to be a chain of custody so it could be admissible.
Someone mentioned 5% of rapes were found in a study to be a factor - but probably because of the amnesia factor this is sorely underreported. #daterapedrugs
10/27/09
So I guess she just imagined what was likely a date-rape drug even if there was no sex involved? #daterapedrugs
10/27/09
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When drinking to excess, you know what you're in for. I have experienced that as well. The big difference is you know what's coming. If I down six shots and two beers I know I will be drunk and have impaired judgement. If I drink something that has had something added to it, I'm not expecting to have impaired judgement.
When I was drugged I had had two beers over a three hour period. I was not drunk, but when the dickface that slipped something into my drink unzipped my kneehigh boots and I couldn't remember how to work a zipper, I knew something was wrong and ran. I then proceeded to vomit for the next six hours. So no, Daily Fail, it wasn't an excuse for me to act a fool. #daterapedrugs
10/27/09
10/27/09
In all seriousness tho, that's terrifying. #daterapedrugs
10/27/09
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