Away We Go is, pretty much, exactly what you're looking for, then. A relationship that's stable, the premise is not and never becomes about them hooking up or breaking up...they're "real" people, with a relationship that's relatable...and you STILL get the happy ending.
27 Dresses had the creepiest of "grand gestures." The dude picks up her appointment book she left behind and starts showing up at all her parties etc...to get to know her better. oh! LIKE STALKING?
It seems I'm in the minority, but I like how romcoms are mostly about people getting together. Not that relationships can't be funny, but there is something I find kind of hopeful about two people finding each other.
But I'll never see this movie or Ghosts of Girlfriends Past. I want a likeable male lead. I'm sure a lot of assholes are that way because someone hurt them, but I don't think the love of a good woman can redeem them (if they can be redeemed at all). People rarely change and when they do, it has to be something within themselves and not someone else. Otherwise, when a rough patch comes along and they get hurt again, they'll just go back to being a jackass.
I'm tired of being fed this fantasy of the man I can redeem. I'm pretty awesome and I deserve someone who is already pretty awesome, not someone I can fix.
Am I the only one who REALLY wanted this movie to end with Ms. Heigl saying "Well, the sex was great, but now it's time to move on?"(Or something to that effect.)
Oh I've often thought that a comedy about relationships - not the meet cute/get married shit, but the stuff you deal with every day - would be much funnier. I mean, I had a nervous breakdown in a fucking Ikea when we were moving into a new apartment! It's funny! Really!
@susanstohelit: I wonder how many such nervous breakdowns the poor Ikea employees witness each weekend... My fiance and I were ready to call it quits over home delivery rates this weekend, it was so bad.
@BeckyIva: Have you ever put a Billy system together with a love one? I put together a whole wall with my husband. Not a pretty sight but if you survive that, ANYTHING is possible.
Romance novels are the biggest sellers in publishing, and they're totally unrealistic too. People watch these movies for the same reason - fantasy. The problem lies in thinking that any of these books or movies are realistic and/or something to strive for.
@unpopular: THIS. No one ever says men should stop reading Tom Clancy novels else they expect real life to mirror Rainbow Six. Implying women can't disengage from fantasy is ridiculous & insulting.
Edited by zombie.nancy is a godess of fierce at 07/27/09 3:23 PM
zombie.nancy is a godess of fierce was starred
zombie.nancy is a godess of fierce was unstarred
@zombie.nancy is a godess of fierce: Though I do worry about a lot of the eleven-year-olds reading the Twilight series, your comment is so on the money you're standing in the cleft of Lincoln's chin.
Look, it's simple -- no one goes to the movies to see reality. Action heroes are impervious to pain and their guns never run out of ammo. Rich people are all vapid and narcissistic. Guys only care about sex. Women only care about love. Two people who don't like each other eventually fall in love.
We want to be entertained, which is to say, we don't want to have to think, and everything should come out all right in the end. We want to believe that Hollywood's idea of things holds, even as we know that when we leave the theater, we're going to go right back into the real world, where they don't.
@NefariousNewt: But do you not see a fundamental difference in the unreality of "action heroes are impervious to pain" and "guys only care about sex/women only care about love"? One is silly; the other is insulting. And it creates the context in which we talk about relationships, and those stereotypes persist and become the norm.
Since there are movies that are not realistic and can at the same time speak intelligently about these things, there becomes less of an excuse for the stereotypical, idiotic, insulting crap like this.
@Khrushchev: True, but not enough people will want to watch them to make them profitable. I mean, even when Hollywood makes a movie about real people, it doctors the story, because Hollywood fears that if they told the real story, no one would want to watch it. So they make heroes more heroic, or tragedy more tragic.
What I'm saying is that Hollywood thrives on "unreality," and it doesn't matter how you slice it, if you're looking for an honest reflection of life and human values, you're not going to find it in 99.9% of what is turned out.
@NefariousNewt: But I'm not looking necessarily for a 100% honest reflection of life; I'm looking for something that is least not so broad and stereotypical as to be insulting and harmful.
@Khrushchev: One word: literature. Hollywood is about box office, and they will not stray into the territory of feeding you and I what we really want: thought-provoking, tasteful, and more importantly, atypical entertainment. By portraying people the way they do in movies, they are catering to the largest segment of the population.
@NefariousNewt:But I think there are movies that I have found both very entertaining and also having something to say about the actual human experience. It can be done. I guess that with romcoms (and action movies, fwiw), the bar is set so low that nobody seems to even try to do anything but toss a bunch of stereotypes and cliches at the screen.
And a lot of crap books are published, too -- you have to go through a lot of print to get to what I think you're referring to as literature (I read that as meaning something good -- lol).
I don't know though. Can't we give credit to women, and say that the majority of them are able to separate reality from fantasy? True, the majority of us do not want the grand romantic gesture, and would find it creepy in real life - but it still makes you sigh to watch Gerard Butler or Patrick Dempsey or Hugh Grant or whoever make one to their female lead. And the romantic comedies, which are basically fairy tales, end as fairy tales do - "And they lived happily ever after." I'm ok with that.
In general, I go into a romantic comedy knowing what I'm going to get, and as a result I come out satisfied. If I want to see something thought-provoking, I go to the Angelika, you know? Sometimes it's nice to just watch pretty people fall in love in completely unrealistic, but romantic ways. It's escapism, and I get that from romance novels too, when I choose to read them. I think it would be great if we had more romantic comedies that explored established relationships - but I don't think that needs to come at the expense of these fantasy movies that already exist.
@laureltreedaphne: Oh I don't know, I wouldn't mind if a guy won me over by saying he likes me just the way I am or by springing me from a Thai prison.
Edited by zombie.nancy is a godess of fierce at 07/27/09 3:15 PM
zombie.nancy is a godess of fierce was starred
zombie.nancy is a godess of fierce was unstarred
Yeah, exactly. It's all fantasy and escapism. And no one expects it to be original, either - you kind of go for the comfort of knowing exactly what you're going to get.
@laureltreedaphne: I totally agree that most women who watch romantic comedies do so to watch fantasy and do not think they are seeing gritty realism. I'd never say that the target audience for The Ugly Truth thinks it is Real Life.
@zombie.nancy is a godess of fierce: Ohhh yes. That? That scene deserved an Oscar for...anything. I don't care. Release it as a short film. I wish I knew how to make it my screensaver.
@laureltreedaphne: I agree. Rom coms can be fun and frivolous and fantasy is just that -- a fantasy. But what I'd really like are characters who are written a little more realistically than your standard stereotypes. Gerard Butler's character in this movie had TONS of potential had they written him better. I can't help if my fantasies have better written characters.
Well, and I think that's where you get into the difference between good romantic comedies and romantic comedies where they seem to have just spun a wheel to find their male lead, their female lead, and the contrived situation. It's the difference between "When Harry Met Sally" and "Failure to Launch." And I certainly wish there were more "When Harry Met Sally"s out there.
Yeah, I know you're not saying that. Actually, I guess my comment was more about Meltzer's article, which was complaining that they present completely unrealistic expectations for real relationships. And I think most women are intelligent enough to say, "I like watching this in a movie, but I don't expect my boyfriend to do this, it's ridiculous."
This article is too long and confusing for my ladybrain, Anna N.! However, I trudged through, and here's what I interpreted.
- I love her hair! And dress!
- Did someone say red wine and cats? PARTY
- I've dated two guys named Mike! I can relate!
- Assholes with hearts of gold! That's original, like my eating this tub of ice cream after my last breakup. Because THE BEST GUYS IN MY LIFE ARE BEN AND JERRY AMIRITE LADIES?
- Silly analysis! Men are SIMPLE. Only women are allowed to be COMPLEX in our simplicity. All men like are women who UNDERSTAND THEM. And blowjobs. Why bother getting to know any more?
- I'm getting lost here. Where's my lonely shopping montage?
- Well, der, relationships are boring. The only exciting part is the uncertainty! I find myself immediately bored when a man suggests we watch TV. WHAT ABOUT MEETING CUTE IN THE PARK WHILE WALKING MY DOG?
- I'm happy here in my world. Why must you cause confusing emotions? Oh well. At least I'm wearing cute shoes today.
@zombie.nancy is a godess of fierce: I'll bring this guy called Monarch! He wears all plastic clothes and can be found always kneeling at my feet in the liquor store-- like in a constant state of proposal, which we know us womenz LOVE! ...Wait,actually I mean Jose Cuervo. He is a more aloof than mr monarch, but he makes more money and is a real popular ladies man cos we like the guys that treat us bad that we have to chase after.
"including a reliance on "grand gestures" that would be creepy in real life"
Oh my god, this is one of my biggest problems with this genre of films. So many of these gestures have me wanting to call the police, not grab a tissue and say "How beautiful". I mean I know it's not part of this genre technically, but in Twilight, when he climbs through her window and admits to watching her sleep, I went "gee thanks guys, my worst nightmare played out in front of me."
@EkaterinaBallerina: I totally agree. I suppose that some people can see them as romantic and not creepy because we usually know, in the movie, that the guy really, really loves her and is her soul mate and all that. Whereas in real life, you can't tell if he's stalking you because he's really that into you or because he wants to dice you up and bury you in his backyard.
@EkaterinaBallerina: Twlight freaked me the fuck out too. "i like watching you sleep." NOT OK. Dear 12 yr olds watching Twlight, please call the cops if this ever happens. And tell your parents. Seek help for all parties involved.
@EkaterinaBallerina: I totally agree! Although this phenomenon is really old. I've met girls who bemoan the boredom of their love lifes and want "their own Heathcliff to come along." To which I respond: "Did you even READ Wuthering Heights? Heathcliff was violent, possessive and borderline-insane."
Sometimes, a douche is just a douche and not a wounded closet romantic. And sometimes, a bitchy uptight control freak is just a bitchy uptight control freak with a heinous dye job. C'est la vie.
"the most fraught and interesting part of long-term relationships come long after the first kiss, which is, unfortunately, usually when the credits start to roll in romantic comedies."
Which is why Two for the Road is one of my favorite "romantic movies", with its argument that love, most of the time, is riddled with dysfunction, frustration, and a constant struggle for power within the relationship. And the fact that its "happily ever after" message was more about how people have to make a lot of (sometimes agonizing) compromises if they actually want to make things work.
@Casquivana: Wonderful example! I was thinking about Nick and Nora in the Thin Man series--not romantic comedies, but a completely believable, realistic, and entertaining relationship to watch.
@Khrushchev: Ha! Yes, certainly much more light-hearted, but you're right. I mean, their relationship is very solid, but there was this funny, wise-cracking hostility in their banter.
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Love.
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But I'll never see this movie or Ghosts of Girlfriends Past. I want a likeable male lead. I'm sure a lot of assholes are that way because someone hurt them, but I don't think the love of a good woman can redeem them (if they can be redeemed at all). People rarely change and when they do, it has to be something within themselves and not someone else. Otherwise, when a rough patch comes along and they get hurt again, they'll just go back to being a jackass.
I'm tired of being fed this fantasy of the man I can redeem. I'm pretty awesome and I deserve someone who is already pretty awesome, not someone I can fix.
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We want to be entertained, which is to say, we don't want to have to think, and everything should come out all right in the end. We want to believe that Hollywood's idea of things holds, even as we know that when we leave the theater, we're going to go right back into the real world, where they don't.
07/27/09
Since there are movies that are not realistic and can at the same time speak intelligently about these things, there becomes less of an excuse for the stereotypical, idiotic, insulting crap like this.
07/27/09
What I'm saying is that Hollywood thrives on "unreality," and it doesn't matter how you slice it, if you're looking for an honest reflection of life and human values, you're not going to find it in 99.9% of what is turned out.
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And a lot of crap books are published, too -- you have to go through a lot of print to get to what I think you're referring to as literature (I read that as meaning something good -- lol).
07/27/09
Its all about the Tao of Steve, you guys. The girl is SMART and funny and rad, and not desperate. God I love that movie..
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In general, I go into a romantic comedy knowing what I'm going to get, and as a result I come out satisfied. If I want to see something thought-provoking, I go to the Angelika, you know? Sometimes it's nice to just watch pretty people fall in love in completely unrealistic, but romantic ways. It's escapism, and I get that from romance novels too, when I choose to read them. I think it would be great if we had more romantic comedies that explored established relationships - but I don't think that needs to come at the expense of these fantasy movies that already exist.
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HAWT.
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Hah! Well THAT is a gesture I would be cool with. Especially coming from Colin Firth.
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Yeah, exactly. It's all fantasy and escapism. And no one expects it to be original, either - you kind of go for the comfort of knowing exactly what you're going to get.
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Well, and I think that's where you get into the difference between good romantic comedies and romantic comedies where they seem to have just spun a wheel to find their male lead, their female lead, and the contrived situation. It's the difference between "When Harry Met Sally" and "Failure to Launch." And I certainly wish there were more "When Harry Met Sally"s out there.
07/27/09
Yeah, I know you're not saying that. Actually, I guess my comment was more about Meltzer's article, which was complaining that they present completely unrealistic expectations for real relationships. And I think most women are intelligent enough to say, "I like watching this in a movie, but I don't expect my boyfriend to do this, it's ridiculous."
07/27/09
- I love her hair! And dress!
- Did someone say red wine and cats? PARTY
- I've dated two guys named Mike! I can relate!
- Assholes with hearts of gold! That's original, like my eating this tub of ice cream after my last breakup. Because THE BEST GUYS IN MY LIFE ARE BEN AND JERRY AMIRITE LADIES?
- Silly analysis! Men are SIMPLE. Only women are allowed to be COMPLEX in our simplicity. All men like are women who UNDERSTAND THEM. And blowjobs. Why bother getting to know any more?
- I'm getting lost here. Where's my lonely shopping montage?
- Well, der, relationships are boring. The only exciting part is the uncertainty! I find myself immediately bored when a man suggests we watch TV. WHAT ABOUT MEETING CUTE IN THE PARK WHILE WALKING MY DOG?
- I'm happy here in my world. Why must you cause confusing emotions? Oh well. At least I'm wearing cute shoes today.
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Oh my god, this is one of my biggest problems with this genre of films. So many of these gestures have me wanting to call the police, not grab a tissue and say "How beautiful". I mean I know it's not part of this genre technically, but in Twilight, when he climbs through her window and admits to watching her sleep, I went "gee thanks guys, my worst nightmare played out in front of me."
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Which is why Two for the Road is one of my favorite "romantic movies", with its argument that love, most of the time, is riddled with dysfunction, frustration, and a constant struggle for power within the relationship. And the fact that its "happily ever after" message was more about how people have to make a lot of (sometimes agonizing) compromises if they actually want to make things work.
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