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New York, 2:27 AM
Mon Dec 21
19 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of That_little_attention_whore That_little_attention_whore
    12/20/09

    In reply to With Abortion Coverage Restrictions In Place, Senator Ben Nelson Agrees To Vote For Health Care Reform
    shit. no public option AND we get this steaming pile of shit on top of an already shitty bill. maybe it will get cleaned up in reconciliation? probably not.

    gah, fuck this 60 votes business - remind me why we need filibusters again?
     Reply
    That_little_attention_whore was starred That_little_attention_whore was unstarred
    Image of maude_flanders maude_flanders
    12/19/09

    In reply to With Abortion Coverage Restrictions In Place, Senator Ben Nelson Agrees To Vote For Health Care Reform
    Someone remind me how and why they need 60 votes, and no just a simple majority? I am embarrassed to ask--I took AP History (and was actually, y'know, PRESENT mentally in class, or so I thought, so I feel like this is a bit of relevant information, given the current shitty circumstances).

    Also....what about that mandate?

    I read about shit like this and feel stupid for voting Democratic at all, like I missed something huge during the campaigns, something, anything, and then I wonder if would matter either way.
     Reply
    maude_flanders was starred maude_flanders was unstarred
    Image of ritarocksnosalt ritarocksnosalt
    12/19/09

    @maude_flanders: 60 votes are needed for cloture, which simply means that the filibuster will end and the actual vote on the bill can occur. It's a ridiculous and archaic rule (both cloture and filibustering, actually).
     Reply
    maude_flanders promoted this comment ritarocksnosalt was starred ritarocksnosalt was unstarred
    Image of eatsshootsleaves eatsshootsleaves
    12/19/09

    In reply to With Abortion Coverage Restrictions In Place, Senator Ben Nelson Agrees To Vote For Health Care Reform
    Ugh, this is such, such, such bullshit. Of course, the Hyde amendment, which this bullshit all stems from, is also bullshit. Is it possible to overturn it?

    At least this is slightly better than Stupak (who, by the way, is currently working with Republicans to oppose even this compromise).

    By the way, guys, isn't the response to this not to give up on voting for Democrats, but to vote in, you know, better Democrats? Or whatever Democrats can get elected?

    If we sit out and Republicans take over, that doesn't help us. It sends a message, sure, but at a huge, huge cost. We can make this shit better. Really. If we stop believing that, then whatever's left of democracy in this country has no hope but to fail.
     Reply
    Edited by eatsshootsleaves at 12/19/09 4:12 PM eatsshootsleaves was starred eatsshootsleaves was unstarred
    Image of Le Kangourou de Kataroo Le Kangourou de Kataroo
    12/19/09

    In reply to With Abortion Coverage Restrictions In Place, Senator Ben Nelson Agrees To Vote For Health Care Reform
    Can I just turn in my America card and move to Canada? This whole process has been extremely disheartening.

    I was a poli sci major, I've volunteered on tons of campaigns, I've gotten involved politically on as many levels as I can, until last week I was going door to door canvassing for health care reform, and always call and email my representatives about important legislation. Now though? I just feel so useless and pointless. Who cares what I can do to help this process out when ONE MAN can fuck this up for everyone.

    It is so fucking trivially partisan now with no one actually seeming to care about the American people. Just line up all the senators one by one and let me punch them in the face. I'll start with Lieberman, move on to Nelson, go to Reid, sucker-punch Lieberman again, then move on down the line.
     Reply
    Edited by Le Kangourou de Kataroo at 12/19/09 1:58 PM Le Kangourou de Kataroo was starred Le Kangourou de Kataroo was unstarred
    Image of Scout Scout
    12/19/09

    In reply to With Abortion Coverage Restrictions In Place, Senator Ben Nelson Agrees To Vote For Health Care Reform
    I was having this debate just last night with whom I thought were some very progressive men - but they were all in agreement that they would basically pull a "Nelson" for the greater good

    I hate when penes think they can make decisions which, ultimately, only affect uteri

    * my period button is broken, apologies on lack of punctuation
     Reply
    Scout was starred Scout was unstarred
    Image of pileofmonkeys pileofmonkeys
    12/19/09

    @Scout: That's a pretty funny punctuation malfunction, given the topic. No periods :)
     Reply
    Scout promoted this comment pileofmonkeys was starred pileofmonkeys was unstarred
    Image of Scout Scout
    12/19/09

    @pileofmonkeys: and that I am peri-menopausal :)
     Reply
    Scout was starred Scout was unstarred
    Image of juriko juriko
    12/19/09

    @Scout: Fuck them. There is no greater good here either. The current bill is horrible. I want it to fail. Passing it as it stands is an insult because it is going to do even more damage long term. Now we HAVE to buy in to horrible insurance plans, and now they are guaranteed to jack rates because they have to take pre existing conditions.

    I mean they are basically telling me we are tossing out a women's rights for something we shouldn't want anyways. If you are going to screw over 50+ of the population (and considering it impacts men too not that they would admit that, even more) they could at least be pushing something through that was so spectacular that it didn't feel like a swift kick to the crotch followed by a push down the stairs.
     Reply
    Scout promoted this comment juriko was starred juriko was unstarred
    Image of Scout Scout
    12/19/09

    @juriko: agreed see my "poor foundation" / "build a high rise" analogy below
     Reply
    Scout was starred Scout was unstarred
    Image of FotoVerite FotoVerite
    12/19/09

    In reply to With Abortion Coverage Restrictions In Place, Senator Ben Nelson Agrees To Vote For Health Care Reform
    Jezzies I've been calling my senator all week. And I hope you've been doing the same. This bill is a mockery of our rights and Universal Health Care.

    We cannot not take it because they say it will help poor people. Nearly all my friends are poor and live below the poverty line. They don't want this fucking bill. They hate this bill. Even with government help they will not have enough money to pay for this 'health care'.

    It's a monstrous bill with very few good point and we cannot let it pass. Call, Fight, Protest. Because this is one we cannot let go.
     Reply
    Alys Brangwin has a huge talent promoted this comment FotoVerite was starred FotoVerite was unstarred
    Image of Scout Scout
    12/19/09

    @FotoVerite: agreed it is imperative we that figure out how to reduce the current system's health care costs, make the reformed costs equal across the board (no extreme $ discrepancies for procedures in any given state, for example), remove ridiculous incentive-based physician care, discuss administration costs and make cuts accordingly FIRST!

    right now, passing this bill would be akin to building a high rise apartment on a cracked, shoddy foundation poured on top of a sink hole
     Reply
    Edited by Scout at 12/19/09 2:03 PM Scout was starred Scout was unstarred
    Image of ripley ripley
    12/19/09

    In reply to With Abortion Coverage Restrictions In Place, Senator Ben Nelson Agrees To Vote For Health Care Reform
    Obama said that health care reform would not reduce our current access in any way. If this passes, will he have told us the truth?
     Reply
    midwesternmom promoted this comment ripley was starred ripley was unstarred
    Image of midwesternmom midwesternmom
    12/19/09

    @ripley: Do you think he will veto it and start over?
     Reply
    midwesternmom was starred midwesternmom was unstarred
    Image of Freddie DeBoer Freddie DeBoer
    12/19/09

    @ripley: Well, actually, yes. That's not sufficient, and it's no good, but no one is losing preexisting abortion coverage that they had previously under the proposed legislation. People who are receiving new coverage will not be given abortion coverage. That sucks, it's deplorable, but again-- they already don't have it. The choice, given the actual political situation on the ground, is between giving them access to health care without abortion coverage and their continuing to have no coverage of any kind, including not having abortion coverage.
     Reply
    eatsshootsleaves promoted this comment Freddie DeBoer was starred Freddie DeBoer was unstarred
    Image of TheUptightMidwesterner TheUptightMidwesterner
    12/19/09

    In reply to With Abortion Coverage Restrictions In Place, Senator Ben Nelson Agrees To Vote For Health Care Reform
    Douchebag.

    (Yeah, I know the term was declared passe' here a while back. I think we need to keep it for emergencies, and Mr. Nelson just made me break the glass to whip it out.)
     Reply
    TheUptightMidwesterner was starred TheUptightMidwesterner was unstarred
    Image of Bunsen Honeydew Bunsen Honeydew
    12/19/09

    [www.youtube.com]

    It's not passe in dire circumstances. You have used it well.
     Reply
    Edited by Bunsen Honeydew at 12/19/09 12:04 PM Bunsen Honeydew was starred Bunsen Honeydew was unstarred
    Image of cate3710 cate3710
    12/19/09

    In reply to With Abortion Coverage Restrictions In Place, Senator Ben Nelson Agrees To Vote For Health Care Reform
    My eyes glaze over when I try to read legalese, so can someone answer me this - at least with Stupak, there was a clause for rape/incest/life of mother. If a state opts out under this amendment, is there a similar clause, or is there no federal funding for abortions in those states at all?
     Reply
    cate3710 was starred cate3710 was unstarred
    Image of rmric0.wedding.photographer.and.manny rmric0.wedding.photographer.and.manny
    12/19/09

    In reply to With Abortion Coverage Restrictions In Place, Senator Ben Nelson Agrees To Vote For Health Care Reform
    Really, once all of this stuff has been sold down the river (and that's assuming that Old Joe isn't going to object to something else, [www.slate.com]) what the hell has been the point of healthcare reform?
     Reply
    rmric0.wedding.photographer.and.manny was starred rmric0.wedding.photographer.and.manny was unstarred
    Image of Alys Brangwin has a huge talent Alys Brangwin has a huge talent
    12/19/09

    @rmric0.wedding.photographer.and.manny: Giveaways to the country's finest lobby!
     Reply
    Alys Brangwin has a huge talent was starred Alys Brangwin has a huge talent was unstarred
    Image of Trulymadlyme Trulymadlyme
    12/19/09

    @rmric0.wedding.photographer.and.manny: Shitty insurance practices, truthfully.
     Reply
    Trulymadlyme was starred Trulymadlyme was unstarred
    Image of eatsshootsleaves eatsshootsleaves
    12/19/09

    @rmric0.wedding.photographer.and.manny: [www.nytimes.com]
     Reply
    eatsshootsleaves was starred eatsshootsleaves was unstarred
    Image of femme-bot femme-bot
    12/19/09

    In reply to With Abortion Coverage Restrictions In Place, Senator Ben Nelson Agrees To Vote For Health Care Reform
    I love the smell of discrimination in the morning!
     Reply
    femme-bot was starred femme-bot was unstarred
    Image of LutherNipperkin LutherNipperkin
    12/19/09

    @femme-bot: Oh, is that why I'm dry heaving? I wondered what that smell was.
     Reply
    femme-bot promoted this comment LutherNipperkin was starred LutherNipperkin was unstarred
    Image of tiredfairy tiredfairy
    12/18/09

    In reply to Health Nuts: The Anti-Abortion Empire Strikes Back
    So, yet again, the uterus is an organ that doesn't really belong to the individual, but to the public, so it can be judged and deemed acceptable or unacceptable based on whatever "rules" they've currently decided on.

    It's just basically a "justify your reproductive decisions' survey. Which gets a big old fuck you from me.

    Especially no man has ever been asked to prove that he'll only use his sperm for "good" things.
     Reply
    tiredfairy was starred tiredfairy was unstarred
    Image of spamanda spamanda
    12/18/09

    In reply to Health Nuts: The Anti-Abortion Empire Strikes Back
    I would like to know when having a child DOESN'T "... dramatically change a woman's life, or interfere with her job or education?"
    Because I've got two awesome (mostly planned) kids, and a stable marriage, and I tell you what -- I was not at all prepared for how much a child would change my life and interefere with my job.
     Reply
    spamanda was starred spamanda was unstarred
    Image of maude_flanders maude_flanders
    12/18/09

    @spamanda: wish I could promote you, but you already have a star
     Reply
    maude_flanders was starred maude_flanders was unstarred
    Image of Lymed Lymed
    12/18/09

    @spamanda: When she's had 18 kids and counting?
     Reply
    Lymed was starred Lymed was unstarred
    Image of spamanda spamanda
    12/18/09

    @Lymed: heh, probably true! The second one threw me for a loop -- I thought it would be easy to switch from one to two, and some things were less difficult, but there was still a LOT I hadn't realized about being the parent of two young children.
     Reply
    spamanda was starred spamanda was unstarred
    Image of spamanda spamanda
    12/18/09

    @maude_flanders: awww, thanks! *blush*
     Reply
    spamanda was starred spamanda was unstarred
    Image of Hooplehead Hooplehead
    12/18/09

    In reply to Health Nuts: The Anti-Abortion Empire Strikes Back
    These ignorant, backwards motherfuckers need to read the HIPAA law. It states clearly that releasing people's private health information is a crime. Much less publishing it. You certainly do not get to make this publishing of their PHI a prerequisite to obtaining a LEGAL MEDICAL PROCEDURE! This would never happen to any aspect of men's healthcare.

    Who wants to bet that names and identifying characteristics of the questionnaire completers is "accidentally" leaked and made public as well? The only thing about this that makes me remotely pleased is that if it passes there will no doubt be a massive class action lawsuit and the offending parties will have to pay out the wazoo.
     Reply
    Hooplehead was starred Hooplehead was unstarred
    Image of JoStockton JoStockton
    12/18/09

    @Hooplehead: I was just thinking that. Since they're trying to make this questionnaire compulsory for a medical procedure, I would think that would make it by definition part of the patient's medical records. Which would make the doctor bound to not release it, right? I'd be curious to hear from the AMA's medical ethics committee on this one.
     Reply
    Hooplehead promoted this comment JoStockton was starred JoStockton was unstarred
    Image of Hooplehead Hooplehead
    12/18/09

    @JoStockton: Most medical offices know that HIPAA violations are a gigantic no-no. You can get fired for even looking at a chart that you have no business being in. And that's before you disseminate word one about it to anyone.

    So I am less concerned with the possibility of doctors releasing it than I am about that happening via whatever government entity is entrusted with collating and publishing the PHI. Since this entire measure seems little more than a thinly veiled attempt to legislate morality and slut-shame every abortion-seeker in the state.

    You do raise a good point, though. I wonder what the AMA would do if this were passed?
     Reply
    Edited by Hooplehead at 12/18/09 12:20 PM Hooplehead was starred Hooplehead was unstarred
    Image of JoStockton JoStockton
    12/18/09

    @Hooplehead: I'm not worried about the doctors' offices that are involved in the procedures, because since they're performing them, they're hopefully not interested in having these details released. I just think that because this is "compulsory", not like a survey that outside bodies usually come in and collect for research, I wonder if doctors could argue that this is against their code of conduct.

    I guess it would depend on how the government would go about administering this survey, but it seems to me that they would either have to have a government employee at every practice at all times to administer the survey, because otherwise someone within the medical practice would have to do so.

    Since the state wants to make it necessary for a procedure, could a doctor argue that it's part of the procedure, and they're then bound by confidentiality laws?

    This just seems to go against everything I've read in medical ethics textbooks (granted that university class was years ago), that it seems to me that this won't actually end up happening. I think it must just be political posturing, because it seems impossible to put into practice.
     Reply
    JoStockton was starred JoStockton was unstarred
    Image of TheFormerJuneBronson TheFormerJuneBronson
    12/18/09

    In reply to Health Nuts: The Anti-Abortion Empire Strikes Back
    I love how they act like this is so much more complicated than providing comprehensive sex education in schools, developing quality job opportunities for all people so that they can support their children, providing adequate and inexpensive day care, and supporting child-friendly corporate policies, all of which have been proven to work. I suppose none of those things has quite the same whiff of moral righteousness to it.
     Reply
    TheFormerJuneBronson was starred TheFormerJuneBronson was unstarred
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