@kookla: lol no but my dad watches too much bill o'reilly and he's obsessed with having blonde body language experts come on to show how he was ever holy in his body language while his guest was clearly condescending or angry or lying
What really bothers me are the comments that she should have expected infidelity. We know nothing about their marriage, but if they agreed to monogamy, she had every right to expect it.
Why do powerful men stray? Because they're rich and they don't have anyone around them to tell them "No". That's pretty much why the rich and powerful do anything crazy.
Ok, complaint about the whole "humans aren't hardwired for monogamy" meme - this may well be true, but I am tired of hearing people talk as though "spreading the seed around" is the only advantageous reproductive strategy. I mean, I'm not a biologist, but with my basic college biology education even I can see how that's bullshit. There are plenty of reasons why a monogamous reproductive strategy could be beneficial for a male just as much as a female, and lots of evidence of males of many species who do not seem naturally inclined to the pray and spray reproductive style.
Also? No part of evolution indicates that ALL examples of a particular species must be a certain way even when it is shown to be reproductively advantageous. It just means that most likely more will be that way, at least until the definition of the fittest for reproduction changes. If we were ALL exactly the same, then we'd be kind of screwed as far as adapting and evolving are concerned.
Studies I've seen in the past seem to indicate that men & women cheat at about the same rates. So, as I watched this bit on GMA this morning, I started wondering. Maybe the real question is, why do prominent women cheat less often? Are they more careful? Or do they grasp that they, as powerful women, will be more severely penalized and have too much to lose?
@andlemon: Or, perhaps it's because women have been taught that a powerful man is an object of attraction, whereas men have been taught that a powerful woman is something to fear.
I'd guess, prominent men just have an easier time getting some than prominent women.
@andlemon: I think that may be true, but moral issues aside - who the hell has the time to cheat? I'm a wife and mother and I'm doing something every waking moment. If I'M this busy, I can't imagine how busy really powerful women are.
Y'know, I was watching the crazy hour on the Today show this morning and actually was impressed with KLG for the first time in my life, they were talking about this and she said "will all the news outlets please stop saying that he humiliated his wife, she has not been humiliated, the only person he humiliated was himself" i was more than a little shocked but also happy!
You know, I get a little tired of hearing about how monogamy is unrealistic. If its working for you its working, if its not its not. I hate that we must resort to these generalities. Also their litany of men who cheat included only men who are very rich and powerful, now of course those aren't the only men who cheat, but I think there could be some other things going on there besides some sort of biological imperative to spread it around. Like, a sense of entitlement, arrogance, a belief in your own infallibility, a belief that the normal "rules" don't apply to you etc etc.
@bluebears: I wish I could heart you again for this.
If it's such an imperative, then how come so many men are capable of resisting it? And if so many men are capable of resistance, why do we excuse the ones who aren't with some bullshit excuse about an "imperative"?
@greeneyedfem: plus I find it ridiculous that women wouldn't have a similar "imperative," if one existed, but you almost exclusively hear people go to this trope to excuse mens infidelity alone.
@greeneyedfem: I don't even think it's a matter of men's resistance, either. Not all men are "resisting' their true desires when they are in a monogamous relationship. For a lot of men and women, that's just how they feel most comfortable and happy. Believe it or not, not all men and women have a deep-seated craving to sleep around. Nothing against sleeping around--just don't tell me it's hard-wired.
It's a bullshit, quasi-scientific argument that our "animal" nature is to procreate as much as possible. There are plenty of other animal species, including primates, which are hardwired to be primarily monogamous (one mate for life).
another thing i love is when guys who are married suddenly start spouting about "open relationships" just because they've decided they don't want to do anything to make themselves more lovable, attractive, etc to their partner!
people who legitimately want to be in open relationships make sure their partners are aware of this before they become involved. it's not some new life philosophy you suddenly latch on to after several years of marriage and decide this is how to explain you're really just a deceptive self-centered asshole.
I don't believe in the "imperative" in the first place -- I was just pointing out that reality proves wrong the logic of those who do.
The reality is that men and women are capable of living fully satisfied lives (sexual and emotional) within monogamous relationships and never feel the urge to stray. I'm living proof! :)
@bluebears: I also hate how monogamy is seen as the only option. There's a whole spectrum of relationships out there. As long as they're based on honesty and openness, relationships can be successful no matter how they're structured.
@brenner at large: good point. none of the men they highlighted appeared to have an open and respectful dialogue with their partners, they just cheated.
@boatondryland: I just think that's bull though. Fear of pregnancy might have kept women less sexually active, yes, but if we're talking about an actual "biological imperative" here, then a woman's fear of pregnancy shouldn't have stood in the way of her need to have intercourse with multiple partners, it might have been somewhat inhibiting, but again never discussed. Because it doesn't exist.
Look - if someone wants variety, if they want a conquest to feel better about their receding hairline or stretch marks, if they need to bang someone 20 years younger to reassure themselves they've still got it - that has nothing to do with the spouse. Not saying these are the only reasons people cheat, just saying some reasons begin and end with the cheater and the cheated-on spouse should not feel responsible.In most of my friends' marriages, someone has cheated. It's a complicated issue and blaming the other spouse is cowardly and unhelpful.
I hate that "men can't help cheating" bullshit so much I can't see straight. It's degrading to men, saying we have no impulse control and no emotional depth. We are fully grown human beings with control over our actions. If some decide to act like jackasses that is all them, it's not because of a mutant chromosome. He is not a child and he doesn't need someone making excuses for him.
@token_illiterate_commenter: Hearted! I wish more men would speak up against this bullshit. It is incredibly degrading to men, and I hate that so many boys grow up in a culture that sets their standards of behavior so low.
@token_illiterate_commenter: I assume you're a man? I am curious. Would you say "some" decide to act like jackasses or most? Cuz to me it seems like most. Or at least half. Just wondering.
@yourfriendandneighbor: I'd say it has to be a pretty small minority since I've never had a friend who cheated on his wife or girlfriend. I've known some who have treated women like crap, some who were stalkers, and some who were just plain jerks, but none cheated. I, on the other hand, have had three different long term girlfriends cheat on me. So do all women act like jackasses or most?
@yourfriendandneighbor: Oh come now. Let's not just decide that most men act like jackasses, please; or at least, let's decide the same thing about women, because I'm female and I've seen similar patterns to what token_illiterate seems to have seen: more female friends cheating than male. I'm comfortable saying that most people have the capacity to act like assholes at least once their in lives; I'm not comfortable being sexist about it.
@misspell: i don't want to believe it. what's hard is that most men in my life tell me that "most guys are dicks." that's the latest thing said to me by a co-worker who I assume is a good guy. he's smart anyway and treats me respectfully at work. it's just been said to me over and over again by men since the time I was a girl. I don't want to believe it, but unfortunately, there are so many stories to the contrary. My female friends, on the other hand, only tend to cheat when they know it's over.
That was hardly a "schooling." The reporter was reporting what other misogynist experts have said. I didn't really get the sense that she agreed with them and it didn't appear that Robin Roberts thought she believed that either.
@ShanaElmsford: I saws it differently. She didn't have to include that statement and others (or could have included a better qualifier) if she didn't think it was legit one...especially the moms focusing on the kids one.
@WashingMyHair: Yeah, but she also agreed with Roberts about how you shouldn't blame the victim. I'm just saying the headline is blown out of proportion. There was no "schooling" (I certainly didn't feel the need to bring out the the "Oh Snap" flowchart) and there's no evidence that the reporter agreed with the assertion. She was just offering it up. I do think this was a dumb story and that those experts are tools, but that's a whole other conversation.
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But, having a fight over an affair is far less embarrassing.
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*fist bump!*
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thanks for the laugh. brilliant. excellent. great.
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Also? No part of evolution indicates that ALL examples of a particular species must be a certain way even when it is shown to be reproductively advantageous. It just means that most likely more will be that way, at least until the definition of the fittest for reproduction changes. If we were ALL exactly the same, then we'd be kind of screwed as far as adapting and evolving are concerned.
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Um yeeeaah. Or maybe some of these people are and always have been assholes who don't give a fuck about other peoples' feelings?
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I'd guess, prominent men just have an easier time getting some than prominent women.
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If it's such an imperative, then how come so many men are capable of resisting it? And if so many men are capable of resistance, why do we excuse the ones who aren't with some bullshit excuse about an "imperative"?
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It's a bullshit, quasi-scientific argument that our "animal" nature is to procreate as much as possible. There are plenty of other animal species, including primates, which are hardwired to be primarily monogamous (one mate for life).
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another thing i love is when guys who are married suddenly start spouting about "open relationships" just because they've decided they don't want to do anything to make themselves more lovable, attractive, etc to their partner!
people who legitimately want to be in open relationships make sure their partners are aware of this before they become involved. it's not some new life philosophy you suddenly latch on to after several years of marriage and decide this is how to explain you're really just a deceptive self-centered asshole.
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I don't believe in the "imperative" in the first place -- I was just pointing out that reality proves wrong the logic of those who do.
The reality is that men and women are capable of living fully satisfied lives (sexual and emotional) within monogamous relationships and never feel the urge to stray. I'm living proof! :)
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@boatondryland: I just think that's bull though. Fear of pregnancy might have kept women less sexually active, yes, but if we're talking about an actual "biological imperative" here, then a woman's fear of pregnancy shouldn't have stood in the way of her need to have intercourse with multiple partners, it might have been somewhat inhibiting, but again never discussed. Because it doesn't exist.
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