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Oprah Winfrey Wishes She'd Helped Michael Jackson
Michael Jackson's Memorial, Like His Life, Was Weird, Fun, Sad
A Star Is Mourned: Inside Michael Jackson's Memorial

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thatgirlinnewyork
09/16/09

In reply to Oprah Winfrey Wishes She'd Helped Michael Jackson
yeah, o--and he didn't buy that any time you've had a successful re-shaping it was all diet.

yes, yes--oprah, like jesus, saves.
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staryberry
09/16/09

In reply to Oprah Winfrey Wishes She'd Helped Michael Jackson
"If only I had known that in the end, Michael would be popular and loved by the public again, and not a social pariah, I wouldn't have avoided him and all the social stigma."
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Penny
09/16/09

In reply to Oprah Winfrey Wishes She'd Helped Michael Jackson
Damn, I had forgotten just how fucking likable she is.
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heliotrollop
09/16/09

@Penny: Funny -- after the second clip I was thinking about how unlikable I think she's become. It was as "me-me" as Madonna's speech at the VMAs, but in a very negative way. "Let's talk about My reaction to his skin and My reaction to an interview question."
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sassyredhead
09/16/09

@Penny: She sucks me in all the time. And then later I feel the shame.
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Penny
09/16/09

@heliotrollop ... (fka phoebe.caulfield): It might have to do with exposure. I have always written her off as some chick 40-something women cream themselves over....chessy. But, she seems pretty down to earth, really. At least to me.
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KillMeNow no longer has a future in journalism
09/16/09

@heliotrollop ... (fka phoebe.caulfield): "My friendship would have saved him."
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TRexstasy
09/17/09

@Penny: In 1994 I saw Aretha Franklin in concert at Chastain Park in Atlanta. My bf and I had gotten really good seats in the section where people have tables and spread out picnics and we were wading through the crowd to get to them when I heard someone say, "Now Oprah, listen, these are the best ribs in Atlanta."

And I thought, "Oh, how awesome, somebody named their daughter Oprah." But then I turned and looked, and there was Oprah Winfrey. And I smiled and waved and said, "Oh, my god, hey Oprah!"

And she smiled and waved back and said, "Hey there!"

And for just a moment, I was deliriously happy because I was at an Aretha Franklin concert and Oprah Winfrey just waved at me.

That's my Oprah story.
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Edited by TRexstasy at 09/17/09 12:09 AM TRexstasy was starred TRexstasy was unstarred

pmarble
09/16/09

In reply to Oprah Winfrey Wishes She'd Helped Michael Jackson
All this post-mortem hand-wringing really bugs me. He was a messed up guy. He made some messed up choices, and his family and friends couldn't do anything about it. Why do Madonna and Oprah feel the need to wrap themselves in the mantle of "if only I had been there for him this could have been averted"?
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MizJenkins
09/16/09

@pmarble: That could be said about a lot of people. You think their friends and family don't still regret that they weren't able to help? Or didn't try? What should they do, shrug their shoulders and say, "Oh well, it was his life...too bad he fucked up"?

It's hard to know you watched someone suffer that badly and never showed them you cared.
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Edited by MizJenkins at 09/16/09 6:10 PM MizJenkins was starred MizJenkins was unstarred

Penny
09/16/09

@pmarble: See, I actually took it more like she wasn't demonizing him or putting him on a pedestal, but I've paid too much attention to what people have said about him after his death, besides the normal BS.
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lola_in_the_dark
09/16/09

@pmarble: I think that they are two of the very few celebrities who have the same amount of fame he had so maybe they felt they could relate better.
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Tara Incognita
09/16/09

@MizJenkins: I'm with ya. It's human nature, I think.
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srhbks
09/16/09

@pmarble: Because Madonna and Oprah both have extremely, EXTREMELY healthy egos and as much as Oprah says in the clip "I'm not saying I could have saved him" she kind of is. Isn't that what the Secret is all about? You want it, it happens? Unfortunately she didn't know that she wanted Michael Jackson to live, so oops!
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RStewie
09/16/09

@srhbks: or maybe...SHE WANTED HIM DEAD!

god, is it time to go home yet? I've degenerated into random superficial comments...
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pmarble
09/16/09

@MizJenkins: I have no problem with people who actually had contact with him saying this -- it's these folks who had no real contact with them that I question when they after-the-fact imply that they could have done something.
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MizJenkins
09/16/09

@pmarble: They did have contact with him, however briefly, and they are in the rare position of maybe being able to understand some of what he went through. One always wonders if a kind word could have helped...maybe not saved the person, but maybe just made one day better. It's a natural part of mourning someone who has died tragically.
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pmarble
09/16/09

@MizJenkins: Well, by their own statements, the contact was a *long* time ago. I have known people who were evidently unhappy and who ended up dying of drug-related deaths and suicides. Did I feel bad and wonder, quietly and to myself, could I have done anything? Sure. Did I fool myself into believing that in fact I could have? No. I guess where you see them being heartfelt, I see more self-aggrandizement. Neither of us can ever be proved absolutely right or wrong.
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ampersandparade
09/16/09

@Tara Incognita: I'm sorry I'll need to put that jam on the stereo now. I love those last thirty seconds so much.
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k122n
09/16/09

@ampersandparade: amen! no need to apologize.

you know what? i read all this commentary (here and elsewhere) passing judgment on how other people choose to grieve (and for whom), and all i can do in response is put on Thriller and crank that bitch up till it drowns them all out.

who the hell does everyone think they are policing how someone feels, and in what context? next thing you know, they'll be telling me that my feelings of indifference toward the fetus I'm carrying are misguided, and that i really don't feel that way - or at least, if i were an upstanding citizen and not a degenerate slut, i wouldnt feel that way.

oh wait.

and finally: thriller made me dance when i was too ashamed of my body at the age of 8 to move in any way that drew attention to me or my babyfat. that album made me feel like i could be popular for once, like i belonged - and screw every last one of you for pissing on the tears of those of us who grew attached to him and what he meant to us. again, just who do you think you are?
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ampersandparade
09/16/09

@k122n: I think you say some valid things that have gone to the heart of the commentary concerning Michael Jackson since his death, some not necessarily pertaining to this specific thread, but still useful for the dialogue being expressed here. Sometimes a lot of judgment does get passed in weird directions when a person of notoriety reflects on another person in that sphere of influence and recognition, and it's regrettable because it's obvious none of us would want our own lives dissected that way, certainly not words that we've carefully chosen to discuss something that is difficult to speak about for a lot of people.

I don't know a lot about Oprah in the modern context and choose not to watch her show very often because I dislike just how closely she ties herself to other celebrities, but when I was younger I read several books about her life and understand her to have suffered through some very difficult and uncharacteristically humiliating situations, some in the lead-up directly before she became a national icon. I imagine she guards her private world with a lot of hyperbole and superfluous words, any means really that she can come up with to distance the public from that inner spectrum, and while I think this does sometimes give the appearance of personal aggrandizement it doesn't make her remorse any less real or genuine. People discuss mortality very differently, and I imagine it is hard for her to associate her own feelings outside of that very bizarre world she lives in, and has lived in, for twenty years.

I don't necessarily think this episode was worth making, after having seen the final product. But I think it noteworthy that she made it anyway; she doesn't need the money, nor the attention. She must have actually felt something, and felt the need to express that, and that's something I can respect, no matter how stilted or placid the mode of expression.
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Texpat
07/08/09

In reply to Michael Jackson's Memorial, Like His Life, Was Weird, Fun, Sad
My dad died a little over a year ago, and his funeral was the hardest fucking thing I've ever been through in my life. I'm 23, and there was no way I was in a state to get up and talk at his funeral.

The fact that Paris is 11, and got up there in front of everyone to say something about her father....in front of ALL of those people...on probably the most painful and scary day of her life...speaks VOLUMES about the kind of person she is.

I definitely cried when I saw her speech. I obviously don't know exactly what she's going through, but I can relate on a certain level. Those kids' entire world just fell apart, and they get my deepest and most sincere sympathy.
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brendastarlet is on it
07/08/09

@Texpat: agreed. My dad's funeral remains a fog in my brain. I just remember sitting in the front row with my mom and brother and that the priest had a big smile on his face talking about my dad.

It is the fashion now to have the children speak at funerals -- the last funeral I went to, the kids all spoke (16, 14, 10). Paris made me cry, too, and she does look like him, around the eyes and nose.
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HarpMadness
07/08/09

@Texpat: I was in my mid-20s when my dad died and there was no way I would have been able to get out even two words. I have a lot of respect and admiration for Paris for having the courage to express her love for her dad in that situation. As others have said, no matter what anybody thinks of MJ, good or bad, to those kids, he was Dad.

I was just trying to get coffee this morning and they had all the papers out and most of them had a picture of Paris at the memorial service, so I of course I got all teary like a sap. Poor kids.
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Monique Green
07/08/09

In reply to Michael Jackson's Memorial, Like His Life, Was Weird, Fun, Sad
Stating that MJ is the reason that Obama was elected is obviously simplistic. However, I think there was a time circa the 80's and 90's when a select few Black celebrities broke down major barriers. I think Michael Jackson, Michael Jordan, Oprah, and the fictional "Huxtables" were monumental. They transcended Black culture and became a quintessential part of American culture. This helped to create the environment that made the idea of a Black president fathomable.
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HarpMadness
07/08/09

@Monique Green: Well said.
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ligaya2
07/08/09

In reply to Michael Jackson's Memorial, Like His Life, Was Weird, Fun, Sad
That "interpretative dance" WAS Sign Language. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area and I've been to enough political & non-political events where it's de rigeur (and sometimes the law) to have translation for the hearing impaired. (I also worked for 2 agencies serving the deaf.)

When translating songs, the interpreters 'dance.' Watch the videos, same gestures for same words.
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brendastarlet is on it
07/08/09

@ligaya2: I thought those were his backup dancers from his London show and that was what they were going to do on stage.
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Tracie
07/08/09

@ligaya2: i took american sign language as my foreign language in college and i didn't recognize any of what they were doing. it looked more like napolean dynamite to me.
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Annabellie
07/07/09

In reply to Michael Jackson's Memorial, Like His Life, Was Weird, Fun, Sad
I don't know if anyone has said this yet, but I love the end of "We Are The World", when Paris looks up at Janet and smiles. It's such a lovely moment for me.
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kate!
07/07/09

@Annabellie: pretty sure that's latoya. but, yes it's lovely.
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Annabellie
07/08/09

@kate!: It could be! I'm not very well versed in Jackson siblingology. I just figured that it was one of her aunts, and knew that it was a 50/50 chance of it being Janet.
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Cafezinha
07/07/09

In reply to Michael Jackson's Memorial, Like His Life, Was Weird, Fun, Sad
Wait, he was a Jehovah's Witness? O_o
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FraggleIraq: No Longer Smells Like Teen Spirit
07/07/09

@Cafezinha: i'm fairly certain that he decided not to continue being a jehovah's witness. i think elizabeth taylor said it in an old interview when she gave him his first christmas. it's on youtube somewhere. he believed in god, he just wasn't a jehovah's witness anymore.
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stoprobbers
07/08/09

@FraggleIraq: For the (weird) record, his first Christmas came when he was in his 30s. His mother is extremely devout, and according to his biography (YES, I'm reading it!), he went through a period in his late teens and early twenties during which HE was very devout. The Witnesses threatened to excommunicate him, so he added that disclaimer onto the "Thriller" video. There's even an account from one of the neighbors of his parents Hayvenhurst estate of Michael showing up to do his door-to-door missionary work with a really awful fake beard/moustache and hat. The guy said he thought it was weird this person would be wearing such an obvious disguise, but it wasn't until the next day when his neighbor asked him "Hey, did Michael Jackson show up at your house yesterday too?" that he realized it was him. He said he kept the materials Michael had given him a souveniers.
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Cafezinha
07/08/09

@stoprobbers: I was wondering about that disclaimer! I recently showed my daughters the videos from the 25th anniversary Thriller CD/DVD, and Sr. Zinha and I just turned to each other with puzzled looks on our faces.
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Ramseylicious
07/07/09

In reply to Michael Jackson's Memorial, Like His Life, Was Weird, Fun, Sad
My friend just said she was unmoved by Paris and thought that it was staged...

Who? What? Huh?
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dj_chick
07/07/09

@Ramseylicious: Wow, that's a level of cynical I've never come across before.
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Ramseylicious
07/07/09

@dj_chick: @thequeenofstartingover:

Regardless of the circumstances that got her up on that stage, how can you not feel sad for this little girl who has lost the one parent she has ever known, making her AN ORPHAN?!?!?!

Friend says kids don't normally get on stage when they're crying. Friend has no children, but is a photographer and takes pictures of children at schools. This makes her a child expert.

Meh...Michael Jackson's death is making me a bitch.
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Cafezinha
07/07/09

@Ramseylicious: No, Michael Jackson's death is making you realize your friend's kind of a cynical, thinks-she-knows-it-all jerk.

I think if someone said that to me, if I actually was able to pick my jaw up off the floor, I'd slap their face. And then have my daughters kick her shins.

Whoops, guess MJ's death is making ME a bitch. =P
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Renata Halpern
07/07/09

@Ramseylicious: @Ramseylicious: Here are my very honest thoughts: I also wondered if it was staged. I no longer think that. Her speaking may have been planned but after watching a couple times, I believe those emotions are real. If her speaking was planned, it was only to keep things going in as organized a way as possible. When relatives of mine have passed, the rabbi has asked who wants to speak and when I haven't been sure, I was told simply to speak up as soon as I felt the need. They may have tried to plan who would speak and either they knew she would or she wasn't sure and decided to at the last minute.
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Ramseylicious
07/07/09

@Renata Halpern:

I think it may have been staged in the sense that although this was a memorial it was also shown on television and needed to have some kind of ebb and flow and she may have mentioned at some point that she wanted to say something and when they were up there Janet was like, do you want to say something?

(Michael Jackson's death has also made me write crazy run-on sentences that kind of don't make sense.)

But the way that Paris turned into Auntie Janet. Oy.
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Ramseylicious
07/07/09

@Cafezinha:

You are awesome.
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Renata Halpern
07/07/09

@Ramseylicious: "(Michael Jackson's death has also made me write crazy run-on sentences that kind of don't make sense.)" What you said makes perfect sense and is what I meant to say. "But the way that Paris turned into Auntie Janet. Oy." I'm very close to my father's sister and when my paternal grandmother died, I behaved exactly the same. We had to go to temple even after she just died because it was Rosh Hashana so I sat holding my aunt's hand the entire time. For the parts of the service in which we had to stand, we never let go once. We held hands as we stood up like siamese twins and continued to hold hands.
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Ramseylicious
07/07/09

@Renata Halpern:

That story is very sad and sweet at the same time.

I think that the most fascinating thing about this is that it shows how much of a family they are. We may think that the Jacksons are this crazy, fame obsessed, freaky family, but, in all honesty, we do not know them at all. To these kids, this is their normal, and it was very touching to see the love there. Michael Jackson was their Daddy. And that is all they know.
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ihateyourescalade
07/07/09

In reply to Michael Jackson's Memorial, Like His Life, Was Weird, Fun, Sad
...and now that the service is over, can the Jackomania go away for a while? Not here, necessarily, but everywhere. Enough already. There is actual news happening in the world. Or, if I sound too mean, let the healing begin.
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PrarieMuffin
07/07/09

@ihateyourescalade: Remember how long it took Anna Nicole to disappear from the headlines? She was a fraction of the star that Jackson was, and we heard about her business ad nauseum for a full year. Best thing to do is pull up a chair and pour yourself a drink, cause we're in this for the long haul.
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Devonna
07/07/09

@ihateyourescalade: Remember Anna Nicole Smith? Yeah, this shit is just getting started.
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Devonna
07/07/09

@Devonna: And by 'shit' I mean the weird/odd media tributes and mashups and rumors and speculation, the fate of his estate, the fate of his children, the speculation about their 'real' parentage, etc.. I think the Jezebel coverage has been fabulous.
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Phyllis Nefler
07/07/09

In reply to Michael Jackson's Memorial, Like His Life, Was Weird, Fun, Sad
I wonder why Justin Timberlake wasn't a part of this?? He could have done such a stellar job with any of those songs...

Also, I was wondering, has anyone heard from Macaulay Culkin regarding MJ? I wonder if they were still friends at the time of his death?
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PrarieMuffin
07/07/09

@Phyllis Nefler: I've been wondering whether or not Culkin would make a statement. I know they were very close when he was a child, and I also remember him defending Michael during the molestation trial, saying that MJ had never molested him. That leads me to believe that, up until a few years ago anyway, they were still close enough that Culkin would publicly defend Jackson at a contentious trial.

Perhaps he just wants to keep his nose out of it and deal privately. If that's the case, I can't say I blame him.
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PopCultureIsAFarce
07/07/09

In reply to Michael Jackson's Memorial, Like His Life, Was Weird, Fun, Sad
what was up with Corey Feldman dressed at MJ???
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PrarieMuffin
07/07/09

@PopCultureIsAFarce: Corey Feldman was there? Seriously? This truly was the event of the season.
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Sputnik_Sweetheart
07/07/09

In reply to Michael Jackson's Memorial, Like His Life, Was Weird, Fun, Sad
After seeing the pictures of his children at the memorial, I don't really understand the speculation of whether or not they are his biological children. Maybe I'm blind or a naive white girl, but I think they look biracial.

Not that it matters either way of course, since they identified with him as their father.
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FraggleIraq: No Longer Smells Like Teen Spirit
07/07/09

@Sputnik_Sweetheart: little blanket favors him so much, especially in the eyes. he was around for them and cared for them and that makes him their father.
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Sputnik_Sweetheart
07/07/09

@FraggleIraq: "he was around for them and cared for them and that makes him their father."

Yes, that was what I was trying to say, but you said it much better. Thank you.
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Phyllis Nefler
07/07/09

@FraggleIraq: Not only is that true in the emotional sense, it's true in the legal sense too. People need to back the hell off.
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cellydevil
07/07/09

@Sputnik_Sweetheart: It had alot to do with the fact that in the few pics of the kids, they had blond hair. But it's obvious now (well..at least to me, the eyebrows of the kids were way too dark) the hair was dyed.
I'm slightly scared of being beat up for writing about my hair dye theory...
Hiding now
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kaiwhakamarie
07/07/09

@cellydevil: No, I'm pretty sure Prince's hair was dyed blonde when he was younger. It was obviously not his real hair color.

I mean, when your Dad is Michael Jackson, I guess if you want blonde hair, you get it, right?
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khal02
07/07/09

In reply to Michael Jackson's Memorial, Like His Life, Was Weird, Fun, Sad
The networks have got to diversify. They have each had the same 5 black people on to talk about MJ. When the girl outside of the hotel on MSNBC referred to the repast as an afterparty, I was in disbelief at how so much of everyday black culture is a mystery to the rest of the world. Newsflash..after black people bury someone, we have a repast (the t is silent) which typically involves the telling of stories about the deceased, food, and then a fight involving some cousin noone really knows. You would think they would have someone who has actually been to a black funeral covering it.
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mistersathingtonfroggleby
07/07/09

@khal02: Yeah, white people do that, too.
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dcetstyle
07/07/09

I was wondering about that. I'm black and I know that is what "we" generally do after a funeral but I was wondering if other cultures did because most of the reporters seemed clueless about the tradition.
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PrarieMuffin
07/07/09

@dcetstyle: It's been done at every funeral I've ever attended, and I'm as white as they come. These have always involved Jello salad and a pregnant teenager, too. Is that part of the tradition?
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