"...it's also that women want to see female actors portraying the same variety of human experiences that male actors do, and in order to do that, they may need to mature a little bit."
I fail to see how being on a movie set for 2-3 months a year equates to your kids being raised by a nanny. Couldn't your kids have come on set with you? Lots of women work for extended periods of time --some are even deployed at war-- and their kids turn out ok. And hasn't your mother been living with you? She couldn't keep an eye on the kids while you were on set? Tons of successful actresses work and have families: Susan Sarandon, Goldie Hawn, Meryl Streep, to name a few. I'd also be really interested to know what movies she turned down for the sake of her children.
I seems that with the kind of money coming into her household, she could have had both family and career. But whatever justification works for you, I guess.
Female actresses have to sacrifice at least some of their career to be with their children? Their chosen field can be unforgiving when they want to return to work? Their husbands don't always face the same dilemmas? Stars: they really are just like us.
"Just do it. Just fail then. Because, there might be something on the other side of failure."
Robin Wright, I love you for this. I think we can all relate to never feeling good enough and always being afraid of failing. At least I can. This statement was very powerful.
@freckles: It is a great sentiment. My father always counseled me that the biggest losers in life are people who are afraid to take chancse, afraid to fail, afraid to look ridiculous.
I've found that to be true in my life as well. Life is about living, and you can't learn to live well without learning from your mistakes. Keeps me humble, too.
@Rooo sez BISH PLZ: Wait, you want actors who are self-confident? Wow. That's insane. You'd never be able to manipulate them like silly putty ever again. Can't have that.
I looked it up and Robin has actually been in at least one film since 1992. Even though she worked less, it isn't like she completely stopped. She actually averaged about 2 films a year. It is lower than Sean's 3-4 films a year, but it also seems like a pretty nice place to be. I'd assume she makes enough money that Sean's is irrelevant and at the same time she was able to work occasionally. She made the choice between being famous and being personally fulfilled.
You are exquisite. Good for you for taking a few years off to be a Mommy. Me too. And thanks for those wonderful wrinkles on your forehead when you raise your eyebrows.
You may be the most beautiful women I've ever seen.
@ivorytusk: The character in her face and her eyes when she talks makes her incredibly striking! She's probably more beautiful than she's ever been (which has always been very)
All personal feelings aside, I think Sean Penn is a crap actor. Yes, he's been in some great movies, and no he's not the worst actor out there but....I don't know. It just feels like when I watch him on screen I can see him acting like "I am the great Sean Penn, this is me acting! Be amaaaaazed!". I just think he's waaaay over-hyped.
Personally, I think Robin Wright is the more talented of the two.
Sean Penn is a FOOL for dicking around on her. What a woman!
@Slim: Though I agree Sean Penn is a fool, have you seen him in "Milk"? Because that sealed the deal for me: I think he's an amazing actor (especially if you watch videos of the real Harvey Milk).
@RiloKilo: I've got to agree. His personality bugs me, but his performances in Milk, 21 grams, Mystic River, Sweet and Lowdown--all solidified his place as a great actor to me. Not the best of his generation, but damn fantastic.
@curiousgeorgiana: Eh, you lost me at Mystic River. He was laughably hamtastic in that, IMHO. He's a very talented actor, capable of greatness (Eg Milk, Dead Man Walking, etc.), but his tendency to overact can threaten to undo him sometimes.
@Understater: I agree that the performance can be seen as overacting. I think it depends on what mood you see the film in. Like DDL in There Will Be Blood. Over the top? Yes. Brilliant? Oh yes. (for me)
Thanks for reminding me about Dead Man Walking-- he was really great in that role.
@RiloKilo: I haven't seen "Milk" but as I said to a commenter below, I think he is very talented (I loved "21 grams"), but I think he squanders it. I shouldn't have worded it as "crap actor" but he is QUITE the ham.
Take another very "hammy" actor like Daniel Day-Lewis. As method-y and over-the-top as Day-Lewis can be, he can still disappear behind the character. Whereas with Penn, I keep seeing "Sean Penn as_" not the character.
@Slim: I see what you're saying, and I see how some might see his acting that way... but still, overacting or not, his performance in "Mystic River" breaks my heart every time! But maybe I'm just a softie :P
@Understater: Yeah Mystic River was pretty bad...and I didn't see Milk. I don't, he's just always rubbed me the wrong way. And he definitely is one of those actors that sort of always makes you aware of him as an actor (like...can't completely portray the character because the audience is always thinking of him as sean penn. That may be a symptom of fame/notoriety, thoguh).
@PhDelish: Milk is definitely one of his better performances, though even there I could see the wheels turning. He's just not a very natural performer. Neither is the oft-compared DDL, but IMO DDL is considerably more talented because he reaches emotional/psychological heights that Penn can only dream of touching.
But I agree it's hard to separate Penn from the characters he plays partly because of his aggressive, controversial offscreen persona.
@Understater: Yeah I've been meaning to see Milk because of the content and the story it's telling, not to see Sean Penn. Hopefully he won't get in the way.
And as a side note, I don't think I've ever seen anything Daniel Day Lewis has been in. I know how disgusting I think Cormac McCarthy is as an author so I have no interest in No Country for Old Men, and I don't know anything else he's in...
@Understater: Oh, damn. I always confuse those movies...but I know a friend of mine said I would not like it. I can't handle violence in films.
I actually saw Gangs of New York! I don't really remember him in that. I also saw it when it came out, so it was decently long ago. I shall investigate the others.
I think "there night be something on the other side of failure" needs to be my life motto. How wonderfully profound and perspective altering is that phrase?!
I had a discussion with a friend the other day in which she said something like, "I think that people need to focus more on their families. I'm not saying just women! Men need to, too. But I think that sometimes women just want to be seen as being able to do everything - go to work, have a clean house, have perfect kids."
Gaaaah. No one ever accuses men of wanting to "have it all", or thinks that having children and a career is too much work for them.
@Annabellie: Hear hear. And not only that, but there are a lot of women who feel they need to be seen that way -- otherwise their peers, their families, their bosses, will be forever hounding them with both "why aren't you" and "why didn't you".
(Which, imo, is one of the things that leads us to compete with each other to complete mental, physical, and emotional exhaustion.)
I'm hard pressed to think of a major celebrity couple (other than Brangelina or the defunct Reese & Ryan) for which the wife's career didn't experience a significant post-baby plummet even as her husband's career continued to rise & soar. Preston-Travolta. Pinkett-Smith. Paltrow-Martin. Wentz-Simpson. And of course, Wright-Penn. I'd always considered content to simply play the Mrs. & draft off their hubbies' fame, without giving any thought to the deeper issues at play. An issue that, as many have mentioned, is not exclusive to Hollywood.
I've never deny these mothers the privilege of seeking greater fulfillment in attentive parenting than in career ambition. But it does beg the question as to why we don't hear more dads expressing the same sentiment.
@la.donna.pietra: And she did the food tour through Spain with Mario Batali. While not a movie, she was still working. Even if you hate it, she does now have Goop (I know, I know...) where she does interviews with chefs, designers, hotel managers, store owners, etc.
@doit2julia: Ryan-Quaid. Huston and her husband (not an actor). Streep and her husband (not an actor).
Hawn-Russell. Bassett-Vance.
Bening-Beatty (shockingly imo). Bancroft-Brooks (don't remind me she's passed; I still watch her films on DVD).
Berry-Aubrey (not really an actor, though close to the biz). Sedgwick-Bacon (but TV, not film).
I think, though, the fact I can name them is telling to how rare it still is.
@Rooo sez BISH PLZ: Well, I'll discount the non-actor husbands because, well, they're not actors. It's fairly difficult to compare the success of a movie star to that of an accountant.
Beatty's star was more than established over the course of a three decade career. It's only fair that Bening get her turn. (Ditto Zeta Jones-Douglas.)
With Ryan-Quaid, the downturn in her career seems to be pretty well synchronized to the birth of their child in '92. If you take a close look at their comparative resumes, they're about on even footing, but he's on the rise, she on the decline.
Bancroft & Brooks had a son in '72 during whose grammar school years, Brooks produced the bulk of his peak work (Young Frankenstein, History of the World, Blazing Saddles, etc.) while Bancroft's career lagged in comparison. She, in fact, didn't really get back on track until the mid-to-late 80s by which time their kid had hit his teens.
Russell & Hawn had a child in '86 after which Hawn's career took a three-year hiatus, during which time Russell produced some of the biggest hits of his career. (Tequila Sunrise, Tango & Cash, Backdraft.)
As far as Sedgwick-Bacon, her success with is a pretty recent phenomenon. Their youngest child was born in '92. And the 90s were far better to him than they were to her. Nobody ever invented a game called 6 Degrees of Kyra Sedgwick. Until "The Closer" in 2006, she was a poster child for the crappier-career-than-your-husband set.
As far as Bassett & Vance, the peak of her career came before their '97 marriage & has all but disappeared since motherhood by surrogate in '06. Vance has had a steady stream of TV jobs since 2001 with Criminal Intent, E.R., & Flash Forward.
I adore all of these women & their bodies of work, but it does seem that either they're making the choices to allow their careers to take a backseat to motherhood & waiting until their kids are grown to let their stars shine, or they're in marriages where sacrifices is in unequal balance, at least to the naked eye. But I did think of an example for you: Parker-Broderick.
@doit2julia: Kidman-Cruise. Gyllenhaal-Skarsgard. Kidman-Urban (he's not an actor, but he is a performer).
Maybe it's telling that a lot of successful actresses have non-actor partners. Maybe a family can only stand one working actor at a time, and due to (a) social pressure and possibly (b) larger paychecks for men in Hollywood, the father ends up the working parent.
I think I read an interview where Maggie Gyllenhaal said she and her husband alternate - she makes a movie, then he makes a movie. Which I think is what Brangelina do too.
@kittiquin: :"Maybe it's telling that a lot of successful actresses have non-actor partner."
Agreed. I know that on the gossip blogs, it's pretty much a given that if two film actors are married, the marriage will likely end in divorce if the wife's career becomes more sucessful than the husband's. Examples include Swank/Lowe and Witherspoon/Phillipe.
(Not always, though. Conventional wisdom has it that the Ryan/Quaid marriage went on the rocks when Quaid started enjoying a career comeback after getting critical praise for his role in Savior. This happened the same time Meg Ryan's career started to slip, and word was she wasn't handling it well at all.)
@PhDelish: Maybe you've just been very busy and have lots of good viewing ahead of you. There's lots of great performances in there.
You could start anywhere, but if I were just sitting around and wanted something great to watch I think off the top of my head I'd go with
Huston - Prizzi's Honor
Bening - Regarding Henry
Bassett - Akeelah & the Bee
Sedgwick - Something to Talk About (which she almost steals out from under Julia Roberts, Rowlands & Duvall notwithstanding)
@magstheaxe: Yes. There seems to be a little more flexibility overseas, maybe? Your comment brings Bonham-Carter and Burton to mind. (Of course, he casts her in a lot of his movies, so she doesn't have to kill herself looking for work, but she's great, and he could have chosen to work with other actresses instead.)
@kittiquin: Kidman-Cruise? You've gotta be kidding me. Tom Cruise puts a yoke on every woman he's with. I ever recall her smiling on a red carpet until after their divorce, & now that Tomkat's come along, everything's illuminated. Some of the biggest hits of Tom's career (Few Good Men, Jerry Maguire, Mission Impossible) came during their ten-year marriage. The biggest hits of hers (Moulin Rouge, The Hours, Cold Mountain) came after.
Gyllenhaal-Saarsgard though, that's a couple with equality.
@doit2julia: Nicole Kidman was relatively unknown (in America) until their relationship. Her career took off when they married, while his continued in the same path it was already on.
she's definitely better off without him, but he didn't damage her career during their marriage. If anything, he kick-started it. (Maybe that was in the contract).
I don't like the idea that fame/renown are things that people should want or need. Her career is read as a disappointment by those who think she's foolish to not want to be more famous.
Side side note, The Princess Bride has a beautiful soundtrack. Mark Knopfler of Dire Straits fame. BEAUTIFUL. My dad had the record and I wore it out, and it always reminds me of her.
@Penny: I LOVE you for bringing this up! My dad and I are HUGE Knopfler/Dire Straits fans, and his Screenplaying album, which has the Princess Bride soundtrack along with his songs for a couple other movies, has been played almost nonstop at my house, especially during dinner.
I'll be seeing Mark Knopfler in concert for the third time this May and am SO EXCITED!!
@sequined: @Penny: Where have you two been all my life?!?! There is a dearth of Knopfler fans among my friends and acquaintances outside of Internetland!
@dogcow, @Penny, @largirl, @la.donna.pietra, @collegecamel: How do y'all feel about his stuff with Emmylou Harris? I don't love it as much because I like his voice a lot better than hers, but I want to hear other opinions.
@la.donna.pietra: Everyone loved the song and no one had any clue where it was from. I like to think I introduced a whole new group of people to him! :)
If Robin Wright Penn did what she wanted to do - stepping away and raising her kids - what's the concern? Or rather, who is concerned? And I'm not sure that "the movie industry, like so many others, needs to make space for women to live their lives." Hollywood isn't like academia, where one can stop the tenure clock in order to take care of family/personal issues. And I'm not sure it should be. It seems like there are two (or more) issues being conflated in this piece. Hollywood's privileging of youth/sexiness/etc., over maturity/experience/etc. on the one hand, with one individual's choice to step away. I didn't see the whole interview, so I can't speak to its entirety. But it seems like Wright Penn isn't the poster girl for whatever the "bigger" issue is.
@lauraholtsteele: Because some people who act, love to act. People should be able to love what they do, professionally. Not many do, but still. Put aside the politics of Hollywood, this is an issue for every woman.
@Penny: Maybe I didn't get what Wright Penn was saying, but I didn't hear/see her as saying that she wasn't able to do what she loved. She loved/wanted to be a stay-at-home mom more, so she did. And, to whatever degree it could have been possible to do both, she chose not to.
@lauraholtsteele: .....okay. I can tell you right now, being a woman and the only sex who can pop out a baby, I am struggling with the idea of having a child because I don't want it to interfere with my career. It's not necessarily about "wanting" something, it's about having to choose. I mean, honestly? This is not something men have to deal with for the most part.
@Penny: I just checked imdb, & it's worth noting that she actually done 3 more movies than Sean has since the birth of their first child. Maybe the state of her career can't be entirely on the doorstep of sacrifices for motherhood.
@Penny: I don't disagree with the issue. I guess my point was that I don't see Robin Wright Penn as expressing experiencing a serious struggle, or expressing that she had doubts, about making the choice to stay at home. I'm not saying that some women can't or don't feel this way. Just that I don't see in this clip Wright Penn as saying it. In fact, she calls the decision a "no-brainer." I just don't see why people/Jezebel/whoever is making Robin Wright Penn the spokesperson for something that might not even apply to her.
@Penny: totally. and it seems like that's part of where her tears come from too - she made her choice, and would make the same again, but it doesn't mean she doesn't have pain over what she had to give up. Just because we are happy with the choice we make doesn't mean we aren't allowed to have any conflicting emotions.
@doit2julia: On the one hand, good point. On the other hand, it's not super relevant if we are talking about sacrifices required by partners. For example, were these roles cameos? Were they small roles versus her husband's starring roles? This does not change the male/female dynamic in the industry.
@lauraholtsteele: I do understand what you're saying, and I don't want to make her any kind of spokesperson. But I am more concerned with the overarching issues that impact women in general.
I hate projecting "womanly issues" on all women, so I feel you there. But I think this speaks to larger problems.
@dreamweave: Good lord, this statement is so very true it makes me want to cry. I chose to leave my office job and work from home so I could raise my son until he went to school. I went to college late in life and this was my first job with my shiny new degree and while it wasn't exactly my dream job, it represented an accomplishment that I never thought I could make and giving it up was a big huge deal. I knew being with my son was the best choice in the end because I wanted to be there for him but I struggle with that decision all the time and if I try to talk about it, I am usually met with "well, you wanted to stay home so what's your problem?" It's like I'm not allowed to ever miss it or feel mixed up. Sorry for the ramble but I've been struggling with this for a while now and you're the first person to articulate what I was feeling.
@Penny: Question, though: Why isn't the career she's had good enough? Are we discussing Robin Wright's career or that of Mrs. Robin Wright Penn? Is her body of work only lacking when viewed in direct comparison to that of her husband? Are we talking about the larger issue of choices of women in Hollywood (& the workplace in general) or the specific balance of power & sacrifice in their marriage? (It is always worth noting that imdb lists them as having filed for divorce.)
@lauraholtsteele: Here's what gets me. The question is 'could she have been the greatest actress of her generation?' rather than what it should be: 'could she be the greatest actress of her generation?' Just because she took a few years off doesn't mean she's no longer an actress of her generation. It just means the punters won't immediately know who she is, except that it's Robin Wright/Buttercup. Everyone will always know who she is, and I can't imagine people hearing her name and saying 'nah, let's do something else.'
@Penny: Conflicting emotions? Being human means being self-contradictory? No way?! And here I thought everyone was as focused as a laser sight. Just like my TV heroes...
@dreamweave: This is so fucking true. I would also like to add, that it's not only "career vs. motherhood" that can make our choices to have quieter careers painful or regrettable over time. Depression, low self esteem, and simply the lack of confidence that can go hand in hand with youth can lead us to push away our potential for early success. Then, one day, you wake up at 40, know yourself pretty damn well and actually feel ready to step into the talented creative person that you've been hinting at your entire life...and the (entertainment) industry has passed you by and already judged your small successes along the way as a larger failure. That, to me, is what is feels so, so sad.
@rowingrowingrowing: I think you hit on what I got out of this clip here. I was struck mostly by Wright's expression of fear and lack of confidence in her abilities in the past. I think that the argument being suggested in the interview, though not clearly articulated, is that her fear AND her work/life challenges led her to take less demanding and challenging roles, which in turn has kept her from being the GREATEST ACTRESS of her generation in people's minds. That's where her tears come from. Not lack of hours logged, but risks untaken and potential unfulfilled.
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Perfect. Yes. Exactly.
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I seems that with the kind of money coming into her household, she could have had both family and career. But whatever justification works for you, I guess.
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Robin Wright, I love you for this. I think we can all relate to never feeling good enough and always being afraid of failing. At least I can. This statement was very powerful.
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I've found that to be true in my life as well. Life is about living, and you can't learn to live well without learning from your mistakes. Keeps me humble, too.
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I think it's also not an accident.
Great post. Thanks for it.
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You are exquisite. Good for you for taking a few years off to be a Mommy. Me too. And thanks for those wonderful wrinkles on your forehead when you raise your eyebrows.
You may be the most beautiful women I've ever seen.
-ivorytusk
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All personal feelings aside, I think Sean Penn is a crap actor. Yes, he's been in some great movies, and no he's not the worst actor out there but....I don't know. It just feels like when I watch him on screen I can see him acting like "I am the great Sean Penn, this is me acting! Be amaaaaazed!". I just think he's waaaay over-hyped.
Personally, I think Robin Wright is the more talented of the two.
Sean Penn is a FOOL for dicking around on her. What a woman!
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Robin Wright Penn is stunning in her own right.
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Thanks for reminding me about Dead Man Walking-- he was really great in that role.
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Take another very "hammy" actor like Daniel Day-Lewis. As method-y and over-the-top as Day-Lewis can be, he can still disappear behind the character. Whereas with Penn, I keep seeing "Sean Penn as_" not the character.
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But I agree it's hard to separate Penn from the characters he plays partly because of his aggressive, controversial offscreen persona.
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And as a side note, I don't think I've ever seen anything Daniel Day Lewis has been in. I know how disgusting I think Cormac McCarthy is as an author so I have no interest in No Country for Old Men, and I don't know anything else he's in...
12/16/09
But you should definitely check out the following if you're curious about DDL:
My Left Foot
Gangs of New York
In the Name of the Father
12/16/09
I actually saw Gangs of New York! I don't really remember him in that. I also saw it when it came out, so it was decently long ago. I shall investigate the others.
Much thanks!
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Gaaaah. No one ever accuses men of wanting to "have it all", or thinks that having children and a career is too much work for them.
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(Which, imo, is one of the things that leads us to compete with each other to complete mental, physical, and emotional exhaustion.)
Whatever we do, it's not enough.
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I've never deny these mothers the privilege of seeking greater fulfillment in attentive parenting than in career ambition. But it does beg the question as to why we don't hear more dads expressing the same sentiment.
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Hawn-Russell. Bassett-Vance.
Bening-Beatty (shockingly imo). Bancroft-Brooks (don't remind me she's passed; I still watch her films on DVD).
Berry-Aubrey (not really an actor, though close to the biz). Sedgwick-Bacon (but TV, not film).
I think, though, the fact I can name them is telling to how rare it still is.
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Beatty's star was more than established over the course of a three decade career. It's only fair that Bening get her turn. (Ditto Zeta Jones-Douglas.)
With Ryan-Quaid, the downturn in her career seems to be pretty well synchronized to the birth of their child in '92. If you take a close look at their comparative resumes, they're about on even footing, but he's on the rise, she on the decline.
Bancroft & Brooks had a son in '72 during whose grammar school years, Brooks produced the bulk of his peak work (Young Frankenstein, History of the World, Blazing Saddles, etc.) while Bancroft's career lagged in comparison. She, in fact, didn't really get back on track until the mid-to-late 80s by which time their kid had hit his teens.
Russell & Hawn had a child in '86 after which Hawn's career took a three-year hiatus, during which time Russell produced some of the biggest hits of his career. (Tequila Sunrise, Tango & Cash, Backdraft.)
As far as Sedgwick-Bacon, her success with is a pretty recent phenomenon. Their youngest child was born in '92. And the 90s were far better to him than they were to her. Nobody ever invented a game called 6 Degrees of Kyra Sedgwick. Until "The Closer" in 2006, she was a poster child for the crappier-career-than-your-husband set.
As far as Bassett & Vance, the peak of her career came before their '97 marriage & has all but disappeared since motherhood by surrogate in '06. Vance has had a steady stream of TV jobs since 2001 with Criminal Intent, E.R., & Flash Forward.
I adore all of these women & their bodies of work, but it does seem that either they're making the choices to allow their careers to take a backseat to motherhood & waiting until their kids are grown to let their stars shine, or they're in marriages where sacrifices is in unequal balance, at least to the naked eye. But I did think of an example for you: Parker-Broderick.
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Maybe it's telling that a lot of successful actresses have non-actor partners. Maybe a family can only stand one working actor at a time, and due to (a) social pressure and possibly (b) larger paychecks for men in Hollywood, the father ends up the working parent.
I think I read an interview where Maggie Gyllenhaal said she and her husband alternate - she makes a movie, then he makes a movie. Which I think is what Brangelina do too.
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Agreed. I know that on the gossip blogs, it's pretty much a given that if two film actors are married, the marriage will likely end in divorce if the wife's career becomes more sucessful than the husband's. Examples include Swank/Lowe and Witherspoon/Phillipe.
(Not always, though. Conventional wisdom has it that the Ryan/Quaid marriage went on the rocks when Quaid started enjoying a career comeback after getting critical praise for his role in Savior. This happened the same time Meg Ryan's career started to slip, and word was she wasn't handling it well at all.)
12/16/09
You could start anywhere, but if I were just sitting around and wanted something great to watch I think off the top of my head I'd go with
Huston - Prizzi's Honor
Bening - Regarding Henry
Bassett - Akeelah & the Bee
Sedgwick - Something to Talk About (which she almost steals out from under Julia Roberts, Rowlands & Duvall notwithstanding)
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Also, possibly not just H-wood.
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Gyllenhaal-Saarsgard though, that's a couple with equality.
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she's definitely better off without him, but he didn't damage her career during their marriage. If anything, he kick-started it. (Maybe that was in the contract).
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I'll be seeing Mark Knopfler in concert for the third time this May and am SO EXCITED!!
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My dad makes fun of my for my obsession with The Jez, but whenever I tell him about people who feel my musical ju-ju.....he gets it.
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Also, moving this over to #groupthink
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I hate projecting "womanly issues" on all women, so I feel you there. But I think this speaks to larger problems.
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God, this is why I adore you.
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:-)
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(Yeah, sorry, couldn't find the joke there.)
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I get it. I would cry too.