@katherose: Absolutely. Reality tv has been around too long by now for people to not understand the groundrules. In this weird-ass, fame-whoring culture we have, if you want privacy, stay off the tv.
@BoatGirl: But shouldn't she at least get to choose how she explains her gender identity to her housemates? Obviously it was going to end up on the show- MTV didn't choose her despite that, they choose her because of it. But the housemates could've found out when Katelynn was ready to tell them, instead of when someone else chose to out her.
@lautaylo: Yeah. I actually know lots of white women who look like her. But the voice "gives her away". It has that slightly metallic hormone tinged voice. I know it cuz a bunch of transmale friends (FTM) had that voice for a while at the beginning of their transition. I call them Transformers, lol.
@Quecchua ( Subversive Unschooling Witch): Since the show chose to tell the viewers she was transgendered without letting us find out, there's no way to know for me, at least, if it was or was not totally obvious.
@pmarble: As a self-identified straight guy, I really only guessed from context. I'm sure that if I met her on the street I'd be pretty oblivious, but then again I'm very oblivious in general.
@CollegeBookworm: I think that to a certain degree it also diminishes what someone like Katelynn has accomplished in their transition to use that label.
Granted that there are some people that might want that label, that want an ambiguous gender identity, but if you uproot part of your identity and muster up the courage to do that in the face of society and family then frankly people should respect that and treat you like you ask to be treated.
I want to analogize it to becoming an American citizen. It's not supposed to matter where you were from before, once you pass that test and take that oath, you're an American not a transGeorgian person. It's not a perfect analogy, but I think it carries my meaning.
Although I do think that Katelynn did not think she could be on Real World and have her transgendered status remain a secret. Obvious, MTV cast her because of her background, not in spite of. My problem with all of this is that even if we, the viewers, were going to find out inevitably, it was Katelynn's choice how her housemates would find out. No one should infringe on her decisions of how to inform people of her gender identity.
I could not believe that on this special Ryan called Sarah a bitch to her face REPEATEDLY, and she STILL fawned over his military career and called him a friend. Just because Ryan is a solider does not mean he is not an asshole. I was absolutely floored that Ryan was allowed to get away with this pathetic woman bashing behavior by all of the roommates (and Maria Menounos!) and still be treated like some kind of hero. The man hates women, clearly. In the show he repeatedly said the girls in the house were stupid, and the only reason he gave for calling Sarah a bitch to her face in the special was that she said, "Hebrew people are my favorite"? Ugh, this has been bothering me all day. I guess because it seemed like Sarah was a level-headed person through the show editing, and yet in reality she allowed a man to call her a heinous name and still kiss his ass. All of these people have lost my respect.
@meetkimgordon: I agree that most of the men on the show had very little respect for women. Chet pulling Devyn's covers off in Atlantic City, then he and Ryan laughing like 12 year olds; all the pranks; the boys saying repeatedly that the girls were essentially worthless and not work bonding with or being friends with. J.D. was an arsehole, especially. All the fawning over the military stuff was also surprising, given Ryan's previously expressed feelings about how he did NOT want to go back to Iraq.
I wouldn't expect anything remotely intelligent from Maria Menounos. They always hire the women least capable of forming coherent sentences to host these reunion shows.
@meetkimgordon: The day I learned not all military people were perfect citizens and heroes: I hung out with a guy in the marines, we were watching a movie, he decided it would be a good time to whip his dick out and force me to touch it. Luckily my brother was home and when I started yelling his name, said military man put his dick away and left. That jerk.
@meetkimgordon: thank you for expressing this. now i don't feel like i'm crazy. i can't believe that the boys haven't been called on their disgusting behavior, and i can't believe that the girls allowed themselves to be treated that way. i would have told the boys to fuck off ages ago.
you have no idea how many times i wished they had casted another coral this season.
@PrincessOfPower: I don't condone Ryan's verbal abuse, but a part of me feels that Sarah at least partly deserved to be put in her place. She came across as a very self-righteous, self-absorbed, two-faced and judgmental person, editing notwithstanding. It's pretty amazing how much my opinion of her changed throughout the course of the show (ditto that Katelynn and JD, who both seemed interesting enough in the beginning...)
Yeah, in sum: I wasn't a fan of anyone this season. Except for Baya...the 40 seconds that we saw of her.
@Understater: THIS. i could have probably tolerated living with baya. the guys and their neat-freak-ism would have been too much for me...although a certain amount of cleanliness has to be present to keep mice away.
Well, I for one thought it was total bullshit that JD outed Katelynn about her being transgender. It doesn't matter if they already assumed she was, and it doesn't matter if it came up in conversation. He should have kept his mouth shut- she told him something personal, and that is that. It was no one else's place but Katelynn's to tell the housemates.
@Samanthrax: You know, JD really became a different person after drinking. And seriously I don't know how people didn't freak out over JD snapping and smashing the coffee table. He was trying to make a point to Sarah but honestly it was scary to watch him come unglued like that.
What's the big deal? Why is she trying to "pass"? I can understand that their is prejudice towards people who were not born women and who want to be viewed as woman, but you weren't born a woman. How can you be healthy and happy and not admit to yourself and the world that you were born a man but now live as a woman? I can understand if you don't want to have an involved conversation with everyone you meet about it, but you don't have the right to hide it or get mad that people can tell that you were not born a woman.
@PersonOfInterest:I think what you mean to say Katelyn was not born biologically female, not that she is not a woman. She is a woman because she identifies as such. "Woman" does not necessary refer to biological sex differences.
Also
"Outing"
Trans people have a huge range of ways that we navigate the world, based on preference and necessity. Transphobia functions very differently than homophobia; being "out" is not necessarily desirable or possible for us. Being a trans ally means supporting people in being more safe and healthy - which may mean anything between letting everyone they meet know they are Trans, to keeping their gender history entirely confidential. Its crucial to support people in being as "out", or not, as they need to be. There are many situations in which being "out" could have serious negative repercussions; Transpeople are killed every year just because other people find out they are Trans. Revealing someone's Trans status could cost them a job, a relationship, or their physical safety. Many Transpeople are perceived 100% of the time as their preferred gender, and no one would ever suspect they had been through a gender transition at some point. Some of these folks prefer never to be "out" as trans and, in fact, may not even consider themselves "Trans." This is a completely valid choice among the huge spectrum of gender diversity. If you know someone whose Trans experience is completely private, respect them by honouring that privacy. Trans 101
I'd like to hear other perspectives... but, if a person is "out," why isn't it ok to then tell others "That person's gay" or "That person's transgender."
Of course, it's NOT ok to "out" someone who's told you in confidence something they are not ready to share with the world. But if you are "out," I've never heard of needing to announce one by one to everyone you meet your sexual/gender identity.
These are the kind of things that are spread through the grapevine:
"Hey, do you know if Katelynn's transgender?" "Oh yeah, she told me she is."
"Damn, JD's hot." "Oh girl, you are barking up the wrong tree, he's gay."
This stuff just comes up. I actually don't know anyone who is transgender, but I don't think any of my gay friends formally announced it to me. They were out and I met them and either someone told me or it became clear through context.
Maybe with Katelynn it's different - because she isn't looking to be seen as "transgender" she is looking to be seen as "female" - so her status is closer to a "secret" than is JD's homosexuality.
Eh, maybe that's the argument for *someone*, but I'm not sure it really holds up for Katelynn because she clearly identifies strongly with the transgender community. I mean, she came on the show to be their face and got involved in an LGBT group while on the show. Her being transgender is not a secret in how she lives her life. She's "out," why the personalized announcement? Same with JD.
@bluebears: Because he had formerly served in Iraq, and he found out during the season that he was recalled. I think he is at an army base doing some pre-deployment training, so he came in as a surprise.
@PrincessOfPower: But the uniform is generally only worn when a soldier is doing military-related things, unless they have special permission from a superior. Someone must have thought filming a TV show was important enough to make an exception.
I was excited when I found out the trans community would be represented on real world, but I always ended up yelling at the TV for Katelynn to stop talking about it all the time. Then I realized I do the same thing.
Uh... isn't it kind of insulting for him to say that everyone knew the moment they met her? It must be really shitty to know that even though you feel comfortable in your skin and happy with your new body, you're not "passing."
I thought it was obnoxious how all the guys in the house felt they were owed her story. Wtf business is it of theirs unless she's trying to bone them?
@yousername: I would completely agree with you, except for the fact that she was on the Real World. Didn't she expect to be asked personal questions when she signed up to be on the Real World as a transgender person?
@deener10: exactly. you're the first transgender person on a reality show...somehow, did you think that everyone was going to be super duper politically correct? people are going to ask questions, they are going to get personal, they are going to be real nice to you and more than likely also hurt your feelings. it's called being an adult.
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@CollegeBookworm: I think that to a certain degree it also diminishes what someone like Katelynn has accomplished in their transition to use that label.
Granted that there are some people that might want that label, that want an ambiguous gender identity, but if you uproot part of your identity and muster up the courage to do that in the face of society and family then frankly people should respect that and treat you like you ask to be treated.
I want to analogize it to becoming an American citizen. It's not supposed to matter where you were from before, once you pass that test and take that oath, you're an American not a transGeorgian person. It's not a perfect analogy, but I think it carries my meaning.
04/02/09
Although I do think that Katelynn did not think she could be on Real World and have her transgendered status remain a secret. Obvious, MTV cast her because of her background, not in spite of. My problem with all of this is that even if we, the viewers, were going to find out inevitably, it was Katelynn's choice how her housemates would find out. No one should infringe on her decisions of how to inform people of her gender identity.
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I wouldn't expect anything remotely intelligent from Maria Menounos. They always hire the women least capable of forming coherent sentences to host these reunion shows.
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you have no idea how many times i wished they had casted another coral this season.
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Yeah, in sum: I wasn't a fan of anyone this season. Except for Baya...the 40 seconds that we saw of her.
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Also
"Outing"
Trans people have a huge range of ways that we navigate the world, based on preference and necessity. Transphobia functions very differently than homophobia; being "out" is not necessarily desirable or possible for us. Being a trans ally means supporting people in being more safe and healthy - which may mean anything between letting everyone they meet know they are Trans, to keeping their gender history entirely confidential. Its crucial to support people in being as "out", or not, as they need to be. There are many situations in which being "out" could have serious negative repercussions; Transpeople are killed every year just because other people find out they are Trans. Revealing someone's Trans status could cost them a job, a relationship, or their physical safety. Many Transpeople are perceived 100% of the time as their preferred gender, and no one would ever suspect they had been through a gender transition at some point. Some of these folks prefer never to be "out" as trans and, in fact, may not even consider themselves "Trans." This is a completely valid choice among the huge spectrum of gender diversity. If you know someone whose Trans experience is completely private, respect them by honouring that privacy. Trans 101
04/02/09
Of course, it's NOT ok to "out" someone who's told you in confidence something they are not ready to share with the world. But if you are "out," I've never heard of needing to announce one by one to everyone you meet your sexual/gender identity.
These are the kind of things that are spread through the grapevine:
"Hey, do you know if Katelynn's transgender?" "Oh yeah, she told me she is."
"Damn, JD's hot." "Oh girl, you are barking up the wrong tree, he's gay."
This stuff just comes up. I actually don't know anyone who is transgender, but I don't think any of my gay friends formally announced it to me. They were out and I met them and either someone told me or it became clear through context.
Maybe with Katelynn it's different - because she isn't looking to be seen as "transgender" she is looking to be seen as "female" - so her status is closer to a "secret" than is JD's homosexuality.
Eh, maybe that's the argument for *someone*, but I'm not sure it really holds up for Katelynn because she clearly identifies strongly with the transgender community. I mean, she came on the show to be their face and got involved in an LGBT group while on the show. Her being transgender is not a secret in how she lives her life. She's "out," why the personalized announcement? Same with JD.
Sorry this is a little ramble-y....
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I thought it was obnoxious how all the guys in the house felt they were owed her story. Wtf business is it of theirs unless she's trying to bone them?
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