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Ricki Lake Addresses Racial Tension On Charm School
Charm School: Racial Tensions Replace Drunk-Stripper Insults

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Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC
05/26/09

In reply to Ricki Lake Addresses Racial Tension On Charm School
It's faulty logic to say that having a non-white child makes someone non-racist.

I know more than a few white women who have sex with black men and still don't care for black women. So, her saying that she has a non-white son, has precious little to do with the argument.
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topsy
05/26/09

In reply to Ricki Lake Addresses Racial Tension On Charm School
Just because you fuck darkies, doesn't mean that you can't be a racist. If Ashley had finished elementary school, she would know that.
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foodandshoes
05/26/09

@topsy: Uh, this. And every rapist slave owner, Balkan war criminal, Rwandan Janjuweed fighter, every warrior since there was an us and a them.
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topsy
05/26/09

@foodandshoes: I'm sorry, I'm not following.
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bluesbelle
05/26/09

In reply to Ricki Lake Addresses Racial Tension On Charm School
Really the only race there is for humans, is the human race. Ethnic backgrounds are more akin to breeds. Like an orange cat and a black cat are both still cats, same goes for humans. Categorizing us into different races was the work of scientist who knew better but wanted to promote division and provide reason to treat non whites as inferior on the so-called basis of race. They knowingly lied is what I'm saying. In actuality, there are not enough differences between different ethnic backgrounds to meet the requirements of different races. In the constant proliferation of using pc terminology, I am astounded that we haven't yet corrected the fallacy of race and replaced it with something accurate instead.
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topsy
05/26/09

@bluesbelle: I don't think I agree with you. I am black; there were a couple of rapists in the family tree on my father's side (and my Spanish greatgrandmother). I believe that there is a difference. The point is that difference shouldn't be synonymous with unequal. It pisses me off that once again, the black women have to explain themselves. The whole 'I'm loud because I'm black'. Anybody who has watched Rock of Love knows that Ashley and her crew have no fucking reason to feel superior to ANYONE in the known world.
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Cuntlovin
05/26/09

@topsy: I don't think she is trying to say there is no difference, but rather that the difference is social product, not a biological. There is no biological basis for race. This is evidenced by the fact that historically what constituted other races has changed, for example the Irish used to be considered different race from the English, and this was used to perpetuate racism against the Irish in New York during the large migration due to the famine.

What we consider race is a social value and identity assigned to particular phenotypes. This doesn't imply that racism doesn't exist, that people don't live very different lives because of race, but rather that we have built this huge cultural system that is mostly used to oppressed, on something that we have created ourselves, not biology.
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topsy
05/26/09

@Cuntlovin: I hear what you're saying. And I know that there is no biological basis for race. That's why I find racism so funny; I much prefer class-ism. It's just that, for me, I celebrate racial differences; it makes life different. So I don't think the separation of people into races is a bad thing.
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sshacker
05/26/09

In reply to Ricki Lake Addresses Racial Tension On Charm School
Her child whiteif the father is the same one she introduced to us on ROLB. I mean is it really hard for people to get that Hispanic is not a racial category it is an ethnicity, which means a person can be Hispanic and White or Hispanic and Black etc.
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Cuntlovin
05/26/09

@sshacker: Wait a second, I know that symbol, it can stand for only one institution!

That said, although I understand technically speaking Hispanic is not recognized as a race by the United States government, the fact is that race is a social category and what constitutes a different race has changed through out history. And for many purposes the Hispanic population in the USA and Canada is treated as another race, in that they through society much as a racial minority would, and most people tend to assume that hispanic all look the same (which obviously they do not).

So what I think the blonde chick was trying to prove was that (not that this defends her analysis) is that her son is reasonably a PoC or minority...Not that this defends or validates her half assed argument, but just because Hispanic is not a race, and because many white Hispanic's pass as white doesn't mean that Hispanic isn't treated as a racial category by many, and isn't expereienced within the same system of oppression.
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sshacker
05/26/09

@Cuntlovin: My alma mater :-) Well, the undergrad one.

I understand what you are saying, but technically, it is wrong for her to say her son is not white. He is! I mean Jews are discriminated against based on their religion/ethnicity it doesn't make the majority of them (at least in the US), for lack of a better phrase, 'less white'.
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topsy
05/26/09

@sshacker: Whatever the child is technically, his own mother has labeled him as non-white or 'the other' God bless that poor little boy.
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MarissaExplainsItAll
05/26/09

In reply to Ricki Lake Addresses Racial Tension On Charm School
The other seasons of Charm School have been nothing but entertaining, but I think this season is way too serious and incredibly frustrating to everyone who doesn't pull the bullshit excuses that EVERYONE is using. That said, I'm a masochist apparently because I keep watching hoping it will get better.
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TheEternalOptimist
05/26/09

In reply to Ricki Lake Addresses Racial Tension On Charm School
The blond chick that has the "half-white" baby reminds me of a childhood friend of mine. He's biracial. His mom is white, and his dad is black. He has green eyes and blond hair. He decides if he's black or white depending on the situation. If he's applying for a job; then he's white. If he's applying for school, then he's black. That pissed me off enough to never speak to him again.
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AlmostDream
05/26/09

@TheEternalOptimist: Why would that piss you off??
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TheEternalOptimist
05/26/09

@AlmostDream: Because he wasn't dealing with the issue straight up. Pick a race a stick to it is what I feel, but I realize that can't be done exactly. I just felt like he was abusing some sort of "privilege" by picking the side that best suited him at the time. My other friends in the same situation have picked a race and stuck to it as much as possible. Just MHO.
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mbot says Spock yeah!
05/26/09

@TheEternalOptimist: I don't know. Speaking as a bi-racial person myself, I feel like it comes with so much general fucked-up-edness* that you need to grab advantages wherever you can. I like the Emerson quote: "Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes."

*spocked-up-edness?
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Cuntlovin
05/26/09

@TheEternalOptimist: How can you pick a race when you are honestly both? That we even live in a culture where you have to pick a race is ridiculous. Honestly as someone whose background includes Cuban, Puerto Rican, Dutch, Irish, and African, if someone told me to pick a race and stick with it, they would probably get smacked.
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Triana Orpheus
05/26/09

@TheEternalOptimist: Why does he have to pick a race? He's both. You're essentially telling him to deny one of his parent's background.
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mbot says Spock yeah!
05/26/09

@Cuntlovin: I totally agree. Just because one half of my racial background is more visually evident than the other doesn't mean the other isn't just as much me.
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topsy
05/26/09

@Triana Orpheus: So-called 'choosing' doesn't mean anything. Most of the time, the choice is made for the biracial person. The President of the United States is a perfect example. He identifies as a black man, but always celebrates his white mother and her family.
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Evie Havok
05/26/09

@mbot says Spock yeah!: Don't you already have all of the advantages that you can every possibly need if you look white? Does someone really need to play at being the minority to get more "advantages"? I think that's what EternalOptimist was trying to say. Some people are just greedy.
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roxrharris
05/26/09

@TheEternalOptimist: I don't know, my boyfriend looks very white but he is a quarter Cuban and because he identified as Hispanic on his college scholarship applications he was eligible and subsequently awarded grants and scholarships based on a part of his ethnicity that he admittedly knows little about (I speak more Spanish than he does..) But he was able to graduate debt free and i think that's pretty awesome.
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Evie Havok
05/26/09

@roxrharris: He stole that opportunity from a well-deserved person who is actually part of the many hispanic cultures. That's anything but awesome.
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Skellatrix
05/26/09

@TheEternalOptimist: I know I am very late to the game here, but "pick a race and stick to it" is the kind of talk that helps perpetuate stereotypes. No, I will not pick a race. I am half Cape Verdean. Even if I were 100% Cape Verdean, I couldn't "pick a race" because we are, as a nationality, multiracial. Go look up Cape Verde on Wikipedia--it's an interesting/sad place.
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Dayman-Fan
05/26/09

@Evie Havok: What?! How did he "steal" anything from someone? He's Cuban, he IS a minority! He may not know as much about his culture as others, (which probably isn't his fault), but that doesn't make him a thief for receiving a scholarship. How do you know that other "well-deserved" person (what makes you think he wasn't "well deserved?") didn't receive a scholarship, as well. Jumping to conclusions, aren't you?
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Evie Havok
05/26/09

@Dayman-Fan: She said he was a quarter cuban. Ha! That's like when white people say that they're 1/16 or a 1/4 Sioux [insert other Native American tribe here]. I'm a quarter white, too. That doesn't seem to mean much of anything to me or anyone else. Nor do I receive any special privileges from it either. Neither should anyone else. There comes a time when the minority "blood" becomes diluted enough to just be plain old white. Plus, cubans, aside from afro-cubans, are mostly racially white. So, essentially they gave a minority scholarship and grants to a white person. That is not fair.
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TheEternalOptimist
05/26/09

@Evie Havok: *That's* the point I was trying to make. It is unfair to use something to your advantage, such as this, just to get ahead. What about the people that actually deserve it, and are denied?
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iKniter
05/27/09

@Evie Havok: Well if someone else were well deserving then wouldn't they have gotten it? He looked good on paper, checked the right boxes, and his credentials matched up. These forms never say what percentage of a ethnicity you must have in order to apply.
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Evie Havok
05/27/09

@iKniter: They should. White people already have the advantage and just because they have a little ethnic in them they're going to get more? Yeah, that doesn't suit well for me. Or almost any other minority that has to work twice as hard as a white person.
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tracylynn
05/26/09

In reply to Ricki Lake Addresses Racial Tension On Charm School
Sometimes it's so painful to watch inarticulate people express themselves. If these ladies had the tools to express their feelings without resorting to daytime talk show cliches, then this episode would have fulfilled the vague promise to actually bring these two poles together for a discussion about race - but if they had those tools, they wouldn't be on this show clinging to their trashy identities while trying hard to 'change.' I do think that Rikki is the best host though and I might actually watch this season in real time rather than fast forward like with all the other V1 shows.

So I'm just going to go watch Obama's campaign speech on race again.
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Tippi Hedren
05/26/09

@tracylynn: It could have been a really meaningful discussion, but Ricki did not do a good job mediating it in a way that would facilitate that. The only reason why everyone stopped screaming is because they want to win. I don't think anyone left the discussion with a better understanding of the other side.
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Macloserboy
05/26/09

In reply to Ricki Lake Addresses Racial Tension On Charm School
I can't enjoy this show any more. The girls are so clearly damaged it's not even remotely fun. Both Kiki and Bay Bay Bay have problems with anger so great it's painful to watch. The way they explode over Bubbles at the slightest provocation makes me squirm. And though she doesn't show it here, we know that Brittanya has anger issues as well. Others have flat out admitted they think little of themselves. Not that this show is even remotely about helping them, but if they wanted to at least give it lip service then a Dr. Drew or some other therapist should be on it.
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Snowbunny
05/26/09

@Macloserboy: Brittanya talking about her legal troubles is really taking a lot of the "reality show" magic (as in "not reality at all show"). That sounds bratty of me, like I'm saying "How dare you monkeys talk about jail time rather than dancing!" but it's true.
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Tippi Hedren
05/26/09

In reply to Ricki Lake Addresses Racial Tension On Charm School
Team Risky!
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Dayman-Fan
05/26/09

@Tippi Hedren: I have no idea why she's even on the show. She seems to be the most put together person on the show.
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midwesternmom
05/26/09

@Dayman-Fan: Yeah, she has "anger issues" because she went off when some woman accused her of sexual acts she didn't commit. That's not anger, that's self-respect.

Plus she's just so interesting when she sits back and cocks her eyebrows at everything.
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megscissorhands
05/26/09

In reply to Ricki Lake Addresses Racial Tension On Charm School
Darn. I thought the "big reveal" was going to be that Ashley's grandfather was black.
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OneTwoPunch
05/26/09

In reply to Ricki Lake Addresses Racial Tension On Charm School
The counterpunch to "ghetto" is "white trash", FYI. She's right, the platinum strippers in the house are just as loud and obnoxious as the other women.

IDK, and her having a neck tattoo, isn't that pretty much a sign to the world that one just doesn't care about fitting into any kind of genteel society, let alone charm school?!
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Snowbunny
05/26/09

@OneTwoPunch: Plus the "James" tattoo on her boob. I actually wish I didn't have to fit into society and could get obnoxious tattoos all over my body. I love the stars that Daisy has on her throat and Tommy Lee has on his hands. Stupid future and job.

Maybe when I'm an old, retired lady I'll get the shit tattooed out of my ancient body.
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OneTwoPunch
05/26/09

@Snowbunny: Yeah, she's obv. not into looking like fitting in, so the sham of the show just highlights the whole hypocrisy of it all. You know what also really bugs me? How the women are referred to as "girls". Some of these women have children, how can they still be open and impressionable enough to be "charmed" by Ricki Lake's advice!? It's just too obv. and fake for my tastes. I prefer some semblance of real. So I relish when someone on these shows inevitably says "She's here for all the wrong reasons." Are there any right reasons?!
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CHIC NOIR
05/26/09

@OneTwoPunch: calling adult women girl and young boys men is old school sexism. I hate it myself.
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Snowbunny
05/26/09

@CHIC NOIR: I don't know, I feel like it fits in this situation. They're in charm school and they're dressing like Catholic school girls, plus they are shown as having the maturity of middle school students most of the time. I'm not saying what they're doing (turning strippers and such into near children to appeal to men--speaks volumes about pop culture's definition of female sexuality) but if I were Rikki Lake looking at a sea of women in pleated plaid skirts and knee socks I would not be able to say "Alright, ladies, let's work on turning you into ladies."
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Trulymadlyme
05/26/09

In reply to Ricki Lake Addresses Racial Tension On Charm School
They need to bring Dallas & Pumpkin back to teach these women that trashy love interests are not driven by color so much as by tequila and ice sculptures.

But for serious. Were there any white Real Chance women or black Rock of Love Bus women on this show?
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ManofReason
05/26/09

@Trulymadlyme: Bubbles and KO are from Real Chance while Natasha is from Rock of Love. Oh yeah, Real chose a white girl named Corn Fed no less as the winner. Of course he dumped her a month later, but you get the point. And I have watched way too much Celebreality.
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Tippi Hedren
05/26/09

@ManofReason: Corn Fed? I would be PISSED if someone gave me that nickname, particularly if I was trying to win a dating show.
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Snowbunny
05/26/09

@Trulymadlyme: Natasha is black from Rock of Love, Bubbles is white from Real Chance of Love.
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stoprobbers
05/26/09

In reply to Ricki Lake Addresses Racial Tension On Charm School
"My son is not white" is the new "I have a black friend"!
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prestocaro fears the culling
05/26/09

@stoprobbers: Reminds me of the last Pot Psychology... I'm only half-racist because my boyfriend is black.
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Snowbunny
05/26/09

@stoprobbers: The BEST part about that was when she was like "I have something VERY SURPRISING to tell you. You will be surprised, nee SHOCKED even. My son is black. Okay, he's obviously half black but whatever."

Color me whelmed.
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ManofReason
05/26/09

In reply to Ricki Lake Addresses Racial Tension On Charm School
I must admit it but I am in love with Bubbles. She is in fact very sweet and intelligent, it is just hard for her to articulate what she is feeling. I have a bachelor's degree but sometimes my mouth is much faster than my brain and foolishness comes out as well. She has a big heart and does not deserve any of the abuse she receives from the housemates. Watch her win the whole thing now.
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Phyllis Nefler
05/26/09

@ManofReason: I feel really bad for her. They are bullying the crap out of her because she doesn't know how to stand up for herself. Hopefully she takes the whole damn thing and shows them, hah.
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vanka-vstanka
05/26/09

@ManofReason: Go for it Bubbles! Achieve your cartoon voices dreams!
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KiddyKat
05/26/09

In reply to Ricki Lake Addresses Racial Tension On Charm School
Yeah, "ghetto" is one of those things you have to be careful about because, having grown up in the ghetto, I know a lot of people who get offended when people who aren't from the ghetto use it. I'm not going to lie, it kind of bugs me sometimes. I just don't think we're using the word in the same way.
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Yellowbelt
05/26/09

@KiddyKat: It bugs me too- it is racist and classist- and still pretty acceptable. You're right though, the word has many implications. Penny wondered above about the evolution of the term, which would be really interesting.
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Dictator for Life
05/26/09

@Yellowbelt: "Ghetto" originally comes from the area in Venice to which Venetian Jews were exiled many many centuries ago. "Ghetto" is Italian for something to do with a factory or something industrial-ish, and an island was set aside in Venice for that purpose (factory or whatever it was). It was never used for that, and eventually, the Doge sent all the Jews there, and the name ghetto stuck. See also: Warsaw ghetto.
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Charm School: Racial Tensions Replace Drunk-Stripper Insults

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