No matter how disturbing these games may be, technically, the versions sold in the U.S. are not illegal
This is not remotely true. There may not be a Federal law that effectively bans import of this material, but I'm certain that sale, possession, transfer, or exhibition of this title is definitely illegal under many local obscenity statutes.
The 1st Amendment does have restrictions, for example based on safety (one cannot yell "Fire!" in a crowded theatre), or prurient interest (bestiality and rape-porn are considered obscene in most communities), but it is up to the municipalities to decide how it treats these materials.
How materials such as these are handled both on a Federal, and local level, may change drastically very soon.
I'm commenting way behind the ball on this, but I haven't been able to stop thinking about this post all day....
I think the government should ban games like this on a case-by-case basis (which it would appear it already does) to avoid the whole slippery slope of a catch-all ban that would infringe on free speech.
The aspect of this that disturbs me the most is that I think if this game depicted men raping other men, there would be a much more visceral, public outrage over it (particularly from the religious right, since they hate all things gay). And I don't even know what people would think if it were women raping men, but I think there would be less shrugging off and more examining how and why this is wrong and how to put a stop to it.
I was wondering when this was gonna hit Jezebel. It's SO fucking disturbing, the details I read about the game. But seeing as how it's a simulation, I'm more disturbed by ACTUAL rape. This will not be the new GTA or something. And 64%?!? MOST Japanese women have been groped on the subway? WTF. Let's focus our energies on that.
I'm pretty sure chikan is not unique to Japan, they just happen to give a shit about prosecuting it. I mean, just look at hollabacknyc for more subway horror-stories than you can handle.
@megscissorhands: real life porn that depicts rape is understood to be such: it is two consenting adults acting something out. The virtual victim in this game has no agency or choice; the only one choosing to participate is the player/rapist.
@AuburnPonytail: Eh, I don't know where I come down on this (which is why I posted the question). Though porn depicts consensual actors, they are real people after all--the virtual character is just that, virtual.
I don't like rape porn because it romanticizes a violent act. Would it be ok to watch murder porn? (though I guess that already kinda exists in the form of Friday the 13th and other horror films).
We can't ban it, because it's already as good as banned. You can't buy it online legally, and I doubt many retailers are carrying it (if any). If someone wants it, they download it, which is already illegal.
Kind of nothing we can but be outraged. Outrage is fun, though. Not knocking outrage.
For the record, I know a guy who downloaded and played this game. I was like, "Isn't it totally disgusting and wrong?" He was like, "Uh... it's good porn... that's really all I thought about it."
@mistress of ULTRAPRISON!: Oh, really? Did he particularly enjoy the part where he got to rape the underage daughters, and feast on their "realistic" tears as they were being raped? Or was it the part where he got to invite other guys to jump in? I know, it was the part where he got to force the woman to have an abortion if she turned up pregnant!
Wow, that's some great guy you know, there! Hope you excised him from your life soon after!
Even if games like RapeLay do not "cause" players to go out and rape, would you want someone who enjoys the game serving on the jury of your rape trial? Serving on the bench? Depictions of eroticized violence normalize sexual violence even more than it already is.
Maybe I'm extremely desensitized to this but I didn't blink an eye when I found out about this game. Has anyone ever watched hentai before? Now that, that is some disturbing crap. I'm not talking about the mild hentai but the hardcore hentai. The demon raping, tentacle kind, the non consensual sex slave, etc. Eek. The thing is that there is a market for this and not just in Japan but everywhere.
Cue nasty comments here, but honestly, lots of video games have the main character doing "bad" things. I think rape is awful, but I don't know that there's a real clear argument for why depictions of rape are worse than depictions of murder.
@miss.terious: No nasty comments from me, except the fact that I LOATHE violent games in general.
I won't say that depictions of rape and murder are the same, but I tend to put them in the same box in terms of shit I don't want people "pretending" to do for kicks.
If we look at movies, I think murder can be shown highly stylized (i.e. Kill Bill) but can rape? I don't think it can. This is why I feel they must be handled differently.
But, at the same time, I think games like GTA are just as shitty as this game.
@miss.terious: There can be justifiable reasons to kill someone- war, self-defense, etc. There is no justification for rape.
Rape is also a much bigger problem. A woman has a 1 in chance of being raped in her lifetime, a man has a 1 in 10 chance of being raped in his life time. Compare that to the odds that someone will be murdered, which is less than 1 in 100 (the stats vary by race and ethnic group).
@miss.terious: I have been thinking a lot about sexual crimes (and sex work-NOT that i am saying they are the same) and here is what I have come up with: the clit. Its ONLY function is pleasure, which is not true for any other body part-working with your hands in a mine doesn't ruin the idea of using your hands being; stabbed in the shoulder doesn't mean you think about your arm differently. Being raped changes our relationship with pleasure and that is why it is different.
In games, killing usually takes place in the context of killing "bad guys", like in war, mobs, spies, space aliens, zombies, whatever. And, almost always, you have a pretty damn good chance of being killed yourself in the process, cuz the bad guys have some sort of weapon to fight back with. It's not really comparable to rape... at all.
Oh god, I was looking at a Wired story on love hotels in Japan the other day, and it had a room that was decorated like a subway train. Also one that had pictures of toddlers on the walls and a merry-go-round. Also one that was Hello Kitty S&M themed. I despair.
I feel the same way about violent games as I do about guns. If they are the catalyst for the death or assault of even ONE person, they should be gone..
@Penny Plastic: hee. dirty hippie story (ot). so one time my BF was at a business lunch (he's an engineer), this was years ago, and there had been some small earth tremor in CA earlier that day and one guy was like, the whole state can fall into the ocean far as I'm concerned, then he looks over at BF and says, oh no offense. BF was like, what? he was like was I wearing my invisible I heart CA t-shirt or something? I was like, its cause you're a dirty hippie in general.
@Penny Plastic: Goddamn dirty hippies, caring about preservation of and respect for life?? PSH! I prefer a culture of shootin' shit and woman in my goddamn kitchen, myself.
@Penny Plastic: Ooh, I don't know if I'm down with that. Guns, yes, because the gun itself actually DOES the killing. But games are more akin to books and movies, I think. It doesn't seem very hippy-ish to want to ban books! I dunno, what do you think?
@Kivrin: I dive into this below in some other comments, I think it's a sensitive issue. Generally I don't like people hiding behind free speech if it instigates violent acts. Isn't that illegal, in fact? I need a lawyer!!!
@Kivrin: Also, the way I look at guns (especially semi-automatic guns) is like this - hand someone another weapon, like a knife or a hammer, and would they be able to kill someone? Guns make it too easy. And sometimes games like this make it too easy to escape reality.
@Penny Plastic: I used to feel this way, too, Penny. When we adopted Little Penguino, Mr. P talked about teaching her how to use a firearm when she was old enough. He was born on a farm and is very comfortable with guns (targets, not animals). At first I freaked, but the more I think about it, the more I would be willing to teach my daughter to become self-sufficient so that she won't lie there helplessly like her mother when some motherf*cker is raping her. Maybe that's not even about guns, I don't know.
joking aside, i'm very torn on this. i'm vehemently anti-censorship, but the fact that this game exists (mostly that there is apparently a market for it) is deeply disturbing to me. i don't know how to reconcile those feelings.
03/10/09
This is not remotely true. There may not be a Federal law that effectively bans import of this material, but I'm certain that sale, possession, transfer, or exhibition of this title is definitely illegal under many local obscenity statutes.
The 1st Amendment does have restrictions, for example based on safety (one cannot yell "Fire!" in a crowded theatre), or prurient interest (bestiality and rape-porn are considered obscene in most communities), but it is up to the municipalities to decide how it treats these materials.
How materials such as these are handled both on a Federal, and local level, may change drastically very soon.
03/10/09
I think the government should ban games like this on a case-by-case basis (which it would appear it already does) to avoid the whole slippery slope of a catch-all ban that would infringe on free speech.
The aspect of this that disturbs me the most is that I think if this game depicted men raping other men, there would be a much more visceral, public outrage over it (particularly from the religious right, since they hate all things gay). And I don't even know what people would think if it were women raping men, but I think there would be less shrugging off and more examining how and why this is wrong and how to put a stop to it.
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I don't think either should be banned.
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I don't like rape porn because it romanticizes a violent act. Would it be ok to watch murder porn? (though I guess that already kinda exists in the form of Friday the 13th and other horror films).
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Kind of nothing we can but be outraged. Outrage is fun, though. Not knocking outrage.
For the record, I know a guy who downloaded and played this game. I was like, "Isn't it totally disgusting and wrong?" He was like, "Uh... it's good porn... that's really all I thought about it."
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Wow, that's some great guy you know, there! Hope you excised him from your life soon after!
03/10/09
Even if games like RapeLay do not "cause" players to go out and rape, would you want someone who enjoys the game serving on the jury of your rape trial? Serving on the bench? Depictions of eroticized violence normalize sexual violence even more than it already is.
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Where is the line?
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I won't say that depictions of rape and murder are the same, but I tend to put them in the same box in terms of shit I don't want people "pretending" to do for kicks.
If we look at movies, I think murder can be shown highly stylized (i.e. Kill Bill) but can rape? I don't think it can. This is why I feel they must be handled differently.
But, at the same time, I think games like GTA are just as shitty as this game.
03/10/09
Rape is also a much bigger problem. A woman has a 1 in chance of being raped in her lifetime, a man has a 1 in 10 chance of being raped in his life time. Compare that to the odds that someone will be murdered, which is less than 1 in 100 (the stats vary by race and ethnic group).
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What do you jessies think?
03/10/09
In games, killing usually takes place in the context of killing "bad guys", like in war, mobs, spies, space aliens, zombies, whatever. And, almost always, you have a pretty damn good chance of being killed yourself in the process, cuz the bad guys have some sort of weapon to fight back with. It's not really comparable to rape... at all.
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this whole story makes me want to crawl into a hole.
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Period.
Yeah, I'm a dirty hippie. Fuck it.
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But, yes, it's very complicated.
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joking aside, i'm very torn on this. i'm vehemently anti-censorship, but the fact that this game exists (mostly that there is apparently a market for it) is deeply disturbing to me. i don't know how to reconcile those feelings.
03/10/09