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Tart of Darkness
11/11/09

In reply to The Killer Inside Me: Sex, Death & Sadism
The one concept that I haven't really seen addressed here is that in the book since we are seeing everything from the perspective of the psychopathic killer, it is hard to separate what he imagines the woman feels versus what he hopes she feels. Isn't he really an unreliable narrator? I haven't read the book in awhile. I'll have to drag it out again and reread that part.

Also loved the film version of "The Grifters". Never saw "The Getaway" so I can't compare, but the The Grifters was a masterpiece. #violenceagainstwomen
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Cerridwen
11/10/09

In reply to The Killer Inside Me: Sex, Death & Sadism
You know what is even grosser than the trailer itself? The fact that this trailer keeps showing up on certain sites devoted to nothing but the objectification of "hot" celebrity women's bodies in the context of "Oh, look at Jessica Alba's bare ass! Isn't she so hot?!" If that isn't the sexualization and glorification of violence against women, I don't know what is. I'm beginning to think that the reaction to the film may be even more telling than the film itself. #violenceagainstwomen
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BettyCrocker
11/10/09

In reply to The Killer Inside Me: Sex, Death & Sadism
Rural America - scary as hell since (at least) 1952.

I don't mind horror movies either, but this one crosses a line. #violenceagainstwomen
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ucelluccia
11/11/09

@BettyCrocker: As does your comment demeaning rural America.

Signed,

A proud Okie #violenceagainstwomen
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Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.
11/10/09

In reply to The Killer Inside Me: Sex, Death & Sadism
It seems to me that it will be "good" in an Irreversible sort of way. (ie, extremely disturbing but unlike any other film experience to date).
That's giving it a lot of credit though. #violenceagainstwomen
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curiousgeorgiana
11/10/09

@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: Oh god, Irreversible. I will never, never forget that film. Horrific. #violenceagainstwomen
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geeurock
11/10/09

@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: Sometimes I still see the club scene playing on the back of my eyeballs. Just little flashes. #violenceagainstwomen
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Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny. promoted this comment geeurock was starred geeurock was unstarred

Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.
11/10/09

@geeurock: It is so difficult to describe that film because I can't say it was "good" and I can't recommend it and I can't say it is my FAVORITE film, but it affected me more than any other film I have ever witnessed. The club scene, the disorientation, the way it was shot, everything. There is nothing else like it. Period. Thus my problem. I usually describe it as awesome (the true definition of the word) Terrible and beautiful all rolled into one. #violenceagainstwomen
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Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.
11/10/09

@curiousgeorgiana: Yes, it was horrific and I feel like I am better for having seen it but I would never ever want to see it again. #violenceagainstwomen
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geeurock
11/10/09

@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: Its funny because everything after the first fifteen minutes is like aloe vera on a sunburn. #violenceagainstwomen
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Penny
11/10/09

In reply to The Killer Inside Me: Sex, Death & Sadism
The only thing I have gotten from this thread is that I REALLY want to read this book now. #violenceagainstwomen
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Diziet_Sma
11/10/09

@Penny: It was groundbreaking; the first written entirely first-person from the psychopath's POV. Don't worry, you won't be feeling any pity for him, just disgust. He's a horrible horrible monster. It's fascinating and gripping all the same. But also somewhat depressing, so wait until you're in the right mood before you tackle it. Jim Thompson is a great writer - he also wrote The Grifters, which they made into a good film, and many other books which have been made into crap films.
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Edited by Diziet_Sma at 11/10/09 3:50 PM Diziet_Sma was starred Diziet_Sma was unstarred

Dictator for Life
11/10/09

@Penny: Me too. I love a good serial killer/psycopath/super violent book. Movies rarely do them justice, though (see: Red Dragon). #violenceagainstwomen
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JerkoftheMonth
11/10/09

@Diziet_Sma: In a similar vein, Dorothy B Hughes' 1947 novel In a Lonely Place was an even earlier psychopath novel (male) from his POV but not first person. Very good novel.
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Diziet_Sma
11/10/09

@JerkoftheMonth: Ah, thanks for the tip - I'd heard the title, but didn't know anything about it. #violenceagainstwomen
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sybann
11/10/09

In reply to The Killer Inside Me: Sex, Death & Sadism
This looks truly awful - but a snuff film is one in which someone actually (not fictionally) gets killed on camera. And I hope no more of them ever get made. #violenceagainstwomen
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kellybones
11/10/09

@sybann: Have any snuff films ever been made? Or are you referring to films like The Killer Inside me? #violenceagainstwomen
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sybann
11/10/09

@kellybones: Supposedly, yes. And it's possible I saw one at a drive in in the late seventies - but it could have been just really good special effects. We left before we threw up. #violenceagainstwomen
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bluebears
11/10/09

In reply to The Killer Inside Me: Sex, Death & Sadism
Great job in summing up what is so disturbing about the premise of this movie Katy. I'm going to bookmark this page so I can forward this to everyone I know when this moving comes out and people ask me what the "big deal" is. #violenceagainstwomen
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morninggloria
11/10/09

In reply to The Killer Inside Me: Sex, Death & Sadism
I think I'll stick to my well established regimen of watching cartoons fall in love with each other via a series of catchy Broadway-ready songs. #violenceagainstwomen
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Sophie needs to study...damn
11/10/09

@morninggloria: I prefer watching actors in period peices fall in love to the Flamingos "I Only Have Eyes For You" or Mickey & Sylvia's "Love Is Strange".

And yeah, this movie lost me at Jessica Alba. #violenceagainstwomen
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clevernamehere
11/10/09

In reply to The Killer Inside Me: Sex, Death & Sadism
That is a seriously violent preview.

The thing is, it doesn't even look like an interesting movie. The only appeal I can see is if you like to see women beaten. #violenceagainstwomen
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bluebears
11/10/09

@clevernamehere: I thought the same thing. Besides being grossed out, I was bored. I kept looking at how much time was left on the clip, it seemed interminable. #violenceagainstwomen
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mikaelamac
11/10/09

@clevernamehere: Yep, it made me feel gross. Especially in the days before CSI - you KNOW men were allowed to get away with so much more violence towards women.

This brings me to a question for advice from fellow Jezzies... I do not like my sister's current bf. We are very close, and there is just something about him - can't quite put my finger on it & it's really starting to stress me out. He's a "nice guy" but boring, and I think quite stupid in both mind & political views - bad enough.
THEN my husband shows me what he happen to find on this guy's facebook page (here comes the tie in to this topic) and I'm freaking. He just so happened to put this up around the time they started dating, with no caption or explination.
I'm losing my shit right now. How does a grown man (?) 28 years old think violence against women is funny/entertaining/not a big deal?
I'm trying to figure out how to approach this topic with her... ANY advice would be helpful. #violenceagainstwomen
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bluebears
11/10/09

@mikaelamac: That's a dealbreaker tm Liz Lemon.

Seriously though, I think you should say something to your sister, particularly if you guys are close. #violenceagainstwomen
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Jack_Burton
11/10/09

@mikaelamac: Just as some background info, that graphic is an appropriated and altered (STFU added) form of one made famous some years ago. Here is some history on that. It's likely that this guy is trying to be edgy and "hip," without even knowing the context of the source.

As a sign of his immaturity and insensitivity alone, you're wise to be concerned, but unless he has a other graphics/statements that echo this sentiment, it may not be a significant predictor of violence. #violenceagainstwomen
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TransFat
11/10/09

In reply to The Killer Inside Me: Sex, Death & Sadism
"The Killer Inside Me is set for release in 2010; its five minute trailer promo gives away a good chunk of the plot"

Wish I read that before I dived into the trailer head first. Yeah, yeah it said spoiler warning but it also said other sexy words too. #violenceagainstwomen
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bowleserised
11/10/09

In reply to The Killer Inside Me: Sex, Death & Sadism
Presumably he's going to follow up with a film of Edith Templeton's Gordon? #violenceagainstwomen
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Penny
11/10/09

In reply to The Killer Inside Me: Sex, Death & Sadism
Oh, my. I wish I could comment somewhat eloquently on this, but I really can't bring myself to watch the clip.

My first instinct is yours, it's nothing more than a snuff film. A piece that glamorizes violence against women.

I am also a horror movie lover (although I do shy away from gratuitous NON-stylized violence) and I can be pretty fucking demented when it comes to sex. I do believe that people can have rape fantasies, I do believe that a woman does not have to be in control to fuck....I guess I really would have to see the movie to fully comment. And I don't think I want to. #violenceagainstwomen
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AndPreciousLittleofThat
11/10/09

In reply to The Killer Inside Me: Sex, Death & Sadism
Disturbing.

Question: What's the difference between this movie, which I'm getting geared up to dislike, and a movie like "Secretary," which I very much enjoy? In both cases violence is both unwanted and initially resisted. Except it seems this movie ends with a pile of bodies, while "Secretary" ended happily(ish) everafter. #violenceagainstwomen
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Triana Orpheus
11/10/09

@AndPreciousLittleofThat: See, I don't think she resisted the violence in the secretary. I read her face on the first spanking interaction as sort of shock, but she liked it. Also, you can tell he cared for her and he was tender to her. They just had a BDSM relationship. #violenceagainstwomen
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GirlFailer
11/10/09

@AndPreciousLittleofThat: See, I never felt that the violence was initially unwanted in Secretary. I thought of it as a consensual relationship from the beginning. I mean, both parties could have stood for a little therapy, but it was at least consensual. This movie appears to be about a sociopath that preys on women, end of story. Just my take. #violenceagainstwomen
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Triana Orpheus
11/10/09

@GirlFailer: I love that we started our points the same way. #violenceagainstwomen
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curiousgeorgiana
11/10/09

@AndPreciousLittleofThat: I'm into a little BDSM (with an abusive past, so it's complicated more than normal) and I loved Secretary.

I think the difference is the way the movie is set up. In Secretary the audience is made to believe that they have an unspoken bond, that she can't put into words what she needs, but he manages to fulfill. In actual practice, that can be incredibly dangerous to assume you know what another person wants, but in the context of the film, it works.

From the context of the trailer above, it looks like we're supposed to buy that being forcibly, and viciously whipped with a belt by a man you just ordered out of your house is going to get you turned on. The context and chain of events leading to the moment is just different. #violenceagainstwomen
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GirlFailer
11/10/09

@Triana Orpheus: Yeah, that's exactly how I felt. #violenceagainstwomen
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colormeroutine
11/10/09

@AndPreciousLittleofThat: There's a pull-and-push of power in Secretary- they both have some level of control over the other. That is the difference between consensual BDSM and abuse #violenceagainstwomen
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AndPreciousLittleofThat
11/10/09

@curiousgeorgiana: AHA. That helps me immensely! Thank you.

I think you're absolutely right about the setup of the two films. Secretary has that element of pit-of-stomach uncertainty about which direction the film goes towards. The movie above doesn't seem to have any kind of uncertainty at all. Boring. #violenceagainstwomen
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curiousgeorgiana
11/10/09

@AndPreciousLittleofThat: I'm so glad other people had the same take on Secretary. It makes me nervous to enjoy that film sometimes :o) #violenceagainstwomen
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PepperSandy
11/10/09

@Triana Orpheus: Agreed. And I don't remember it as being such a hard hit that it made you think she was seriously injured. #violenceagainstwomen
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Triana Orpheus
11/10/09

@PepperSandy: It was through her skirt with an open palm. #violenceagainstwomen
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Susan B.
11/10/09

@curiousgeorgiana: I love Secretary, too, but we do have to acknowledge that the beginning of their relationship is very sketchy. I don't think it does count as consensual--she doesn't know what he's going to do. If the same thing had happened and she HADN'T liked it, we'd feel totally different. He's not even totally comfortable with it--he clearly views his own desires as a sick compulsion, which says to me that HE doesn't view that first time as consensual, either.

Which, honestly, could be said of that first part of the clip above, with the belt whipping.

I'm not disagreeing with anyone, I'm just still not entirely sure why I love Secretary and am put off by this trailer. Is it just because Secretary is so very much from the woman's perspective? On the other hand, couldn't we view The Killer Inside Me as a cautionary tale, while Secretary could be seen as ENCOURAGING non-consensual BDSM by perpetuating the fiction that it leads to healthy relationships?

I don't know. #violenceagainstwomen
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TransFat
11/10/09

@curiousgeorgiana: ...I may show that film to new suitors to gage their reactions. It's a good, er, conversation starter? #violenceagainstwomen
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TransFat
11/10/09

@AndPreciousLittleofThat: The film definitely shows Alba's character enjoying the initial (pre face bludgeoning) domination so in that way it's very similar. But, you know, Secretary is a comedy that ends on mutual empowerment through BDSM. I don't know what this will end on but I'm positive it wont be on as high a note. #violenceagainstwomen
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Maggita
11/10/09

@AndPreciousLittleofThat: I remember the story by Mary Gaitskill actually being closer to "The Killer Inside Me" than the film adaptation of "Secretary" because the balance of power isn't there, and (as I understand it) he basically sexually assaults her. But the story is much darker and more twisted than the movie. Interesting how subtle sexual power play is and how little details completely change the dynamic. #violenceagainstwomen
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ShrikirtiRaven
11/10/09

@curiousgeorgiana: I never have had a BDSM relationship, although I'd be game for one, and an also a survivor of sexual abuse, but for me they are very different. I suspect I would have been into BDSM even if I hadn't been abused.

This movie seems freaky to me, while I adore Secretary. #violenceagainstwomen
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Diziet_Sma
11/10/09

In reply to The Killer Inside Me: Sex, Death & Sadism
I've been waiting for this - the book is remarkable. I think it's generally a bad idea to write a film off before you've seen it.
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Edited by Diziet_Sma at 11/10/09 2:26 PM Diziet_Sma was starred Diziet_Sma was unstarred

winner
11/10/09

@Diziet_Sma: Amen.

Though I'm not such a big Alba fan. #violenceagainstwomen
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MrsButterworth
11/10/09

@Diziet_Sma: Yeah, this is one of my favorite books of all time!

Although I have to say, the way it's written is a big part of it's power, I wonder if it will translate well to film... #violenceagainstwomen
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Diziet_Sma
11/10/09

@Diziet_Sma: Especially one directed by someone with Michael Winterbottom's resumé. A film that explores issues of abuse and misogyny is not always abusive and misogynistic. Maybe we should wait and see it first, before passing judgment? #violenceagainstwomen
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Master.And.Everyone
11/10/09

@Diziet_Sma: I agree - I don't really have a problem with the trailer. I hate to say this because I often very much respect Intern Katy's posts, but I just don't see the issue of how the S&M storyline is problematic if it is native to character. I'm sorry, but I don't think it allows or reinforces violence against women, but rather uses it to paint a truly horrific sociopathic character. #violenceagainstwomen
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Diziet_Sma promoted this comment

mepo - Robert Cornhole invented it
11/10/09

@winner: Alba and that dude from the Mentalist, such bad casting. #violenceagainstwomen
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winner
11/10/09

@mepo - Robert Cornhole invented it: I KNOW! Diziet_Sma and I discussed this upthread but, judging by the trailer alone, I can't see myself liking Jessica Alba as Joyce; that character demands an unknown or at least an actress who hasn't made a career out of being the hot girl. And I've already seen all these "fuck yeah! Jessica Alba's ass!" posts on random blogs. Disturbing. I'm sure Winterbottom won't disappoint but I've compiled a list of actresses who I would have preferred in this role. Michelle Williams tops the list. #violenceagainstwomen
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curiousgeorgiana
11/10/09

In reply to The Killer Inside Me: Sex, Death & Sadism
Oh, man, treat the trigger warning seriously.

Not recommended unless you are in a secure place. FYI. #violenceagainstwomen
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