I think the Obama administration has handled this fairly well. 'Negotiate' long enough to A)Show the Republicans would take a shit on anything related to health care no matter how much they conceded and B) Work the extreme liberals who are all pissy Obama hasn't saved the world yet into a fucking fervor. Now all they have to do is step back and let it rip.
Liberal rage is actually high enough to do something constructive for once, such as scaring the Blue Dog Dems into falling in line.
@battleaxonista...is a humorless bitch: Yeah, this seems to be a pretty smart move. Keep compromising until the liberals get pissed/GOP shows that they just aren't going to help (I think them saying that co-ops are "too socialist" is the proverbial straw) and then the White House has the timing right to yank bank any "bipartisan" efforts from the Repugs and just ram it on through, while being able to say "hey we tried, they weren't playing nice".
@bluebears: this is G.D., Latoya's friend/sparring partner from the above conversation.
My question is: what makes you think a bill with a public option passes now? Again, the Dems just need to get to 50, but the senators who stand in their way don't have much incentive to cooperate. Lincoln and Conrad, both of whom are on the Senate Finance Committee, which is crafting a bill) are up for re-election next year in red-leaning states. (Lincoln's home state, Arkansas, went for McCain by twenty-plus points in November.) The White House doesn't have a ton of leverage with them.
Yes, their interests are provincial and about their own self-preservation, but this is a structural problem with the Senate, where meaningful legislation can be held up or killed by lawmakers from sparsely populated, rural states.
So my question is: where exactly do you think the other votes come from?
Also, re: the Dean 50-state thing... Yeah, Dean should get props for crafting that strategy, but that strategy doesn't work in 2008 absent Obama. If HRC gets the nod, you get your traditional base-on-base general election, with traditionally red states staying red and blue states staying blue.
I fucking toured Dachau. I lived in Stuttgart for 7 years. Whenever someone compares Obama to Hilter (or anyone to Hitler, for that matter) I calmly ask if they actually know what it was like in Germany during Hitler's regimen.
When I hear a resounding chorus of "No" I lay the pain on them. I have been known to bring people to tears.
Edited by Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny. at 08/19/09 11:52 AM
Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny. was starred
Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny. was unstarred
@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: I'm glad you're doing so because my head just explodes and I start yelling and not making sense and then I burst into tears in utter frustration. I don't think that anyone who even remotely knew someone living in Germany at that time, Jewish or not, would use that comparison. It just shows how ignorant the people are that are saying these things, and it makes me so mad I can't think straight.
@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: I think people are just lazy intellectually and in their minds since Hitler = bad and Obama = bad, then Hitler = Obama. Actual history and facts are not an acquaintance of those types.
Sometimes I stay up late worrying abuot weird things. Last night, it was "What if Obama passes health care then gets voted out in 2012?" Would Republicans rush to dismantle the public option? Could they even do that?
The whole tenor of this convo depresses me. I hope the Obama team really is going to be more aggressive, although there's only so much you can do against people who are determined to be fuckin' idiots.
Latoya that conversation raised my blood pressure about 10 points. For fucks sake what makes your friend think it'll pass in 4 yrs? We need the public option NOW. The actual public WANTS the public option they're just being (1) drowned out by lunatics and (2) confused by the wishy washy dems.
Also I'm sorry, I am really coming to despise Rahm. I feel like he's more concerned with getting and keeping power than effectuating any real change. Maybe he's about to "go to work" to get this bill passed, we'll see and if it happens I will admit how wrong I've been, but frankly he could have/should have been pressing hard on this from the get go. He said from DAY ONE that the public option was "negotiable." I'm sorry but for me personally that is unacceptable. He's not a political genius, I don't buy his hype. Howard Dean was pressing for the 50 state strategy and Rahm ridiculed him for it. Well guess who's 50 state strategy payed off in 2008?
/end Rahm rant
@GirlyQ: This topic has been discussed before, and I've determined through non scientifically reading comments that Rahm could easily have his way with 75% of Jezebel commenters.
@morninggloria: I watched his roast on Cspan, and, you know, I'm not even that wild about dudes, but I tell you what, wow. They should bottle that shit. I'm a Jew too! Why didn't I get the Rahm Emanuel magic?
I can understand the comparison between Obama and Hitler.
I mean Hitler was responsible for the death of 6 million Jews and 5 million undesirables.
Obama has probably jacked off 11 million sperms and his baby mama has had many abortions. Not to mention whilst with his Comrades in Arms.
Also--when a little kid throws a tantrum, usually the best thing to do is let him tire himself out until he realizes his strategy isn't working. Rapprochement follows. So in light of these news reports, I offer the president this draft memo to be copied and circulated through the GOP caucus:
"Dear Sen. Grassley [or whomever],
I will be your father figure, put your tiny hand in mine. You can sit at the grown-up table when you agree to eat your lima beans.
09/25/09
09/25/09
09/25/09
09/25/09
09/25/09
08/19/09
Liberal rage is actually high enough to do something constructive for once, such as scaring the Blue Dog Dems into falling in line.
08/19/09
08/19/09
08/19/09
08/19/09
My question is: what makes you think a bill with a public option passes now? Again, the Dems just need to get to 50, but the senators who stand in their way don't have much incentive to cooperate. Lincoln and Conrad, both of whom are on the Senate Finance Committee, which is crafting a bill) are up for re-election next year in red-leaning states. (Lincoln's home state, Arkansas, went for McCain by twenty-plus points in November.) The White House doesn't have a ton of leverage with them.
Yes, their interests are provincial and about their own self-preservation, but this is a structural problem with the Senate, where meaningful legislation can be held up or killed by lawmakers from sparsely populated, rural states.
So my question is: where exactly do you think the other votes come from?
Also, re: the Dean 50-state thing... Yeah, Dean should get props for crafting that strategy, but that strategy doesn't work in 2008 absent Obama. If HRC gets the nod, you get your traditional base-on-base general election, with traditionally red states staying red and blue states staying blue.
08/19/09
When I hear a resounding chorus of "No" I lay the pain on them. I have been known to bring people to tears.
08/19/09
08/19/09
08/19/09
The whole tenor of this convo depresses me. I hope the Obama team really is going to be more aggressive, although there's only so much you can do against people who are determined to be fuckin' idiots.
08/19/09
Also I'm sorry, I am really coming to despise Rahm. I feel like he's more concerned with getting and keeping power than effectuating any real change. Maybe he's about to "go to work" to get this bill passed, we'll see and if it happens I will admit how wrong I've been, but frankly he could have/should have been pressing hard on this from the get go. He said from DAY ONE that the public option was "negotiable." I'm sorry but for me personally that is unacceptable. He's not a political genius, I don't buy his hype. Howard Dean was pressing for the 50 state strategy and Rahm ridiculed him for it. Well guess who's 50 state strategy payed off in 2008?
/end Rahm rant
08/19/09
I can't wait to smell what the Rahm is cooking
08/19/09
08/19/09
08/19/09
WE'RE JUST EXPRESSING OUR GRIEF, OKAY.
08/19/09
08/19/09
08/19/09
08/19/09
08/19/09
I mean Hitler was responsible for the death of 6 million Jews and 5 million undesirables.
Obama has probably jacked off 11 million sperms and his baby mama has had many abortions. Not to mention whilst with his Comrades in Arms.
08/19/09
08/19/09
08/19/09
"Dear Sen. Grassley [or whomever],
I will be your father figure, put your tiny hand in mine. You can sit at the grown-up table when you agree to eat your lima beans.
Barry"