This Strange Thing Called Prom was my actual prom experience. I was technically in the second ever graduating class of my high school, but had courses a year ahead and went to both proms and was on both committees.
We invented prom from scratch - but we didn't watch movies for research.
ALSO - I LOVE Lena Horne! her talented, beautiful genes have obviously carried.
@♥Anti-SocialSocialite♥: trivia: she's almost Anderson Cooper's step sister.... but their parents got divorced. Hollywood is a cesspool... in the best way.
I liked her movie until about 25 minutes in, at which point I ran to the bathrrom and almost puked. Movie=good. Camera work=absolutely nausea-inducing. I listened to the rest with my eyes closed.
@madelyn: Yeah, but if you wanna talk about nepotism - what about the farming industry? Talent will out. Being well-connected doesn't help if you're not good at what you do; think Sean Lennon, Peaches Geldof, et al. In fact, it's more of a curse, in my book.
@Diziet_Sma: But they ARE famous. I mean I don't follow their careers but hasn't Sean Lennon had a record deal and Peaches is all over every magazine, especially Nylon? There are so many people struggling who never ever get the exposer or chance they have. I also just feel like 98% of the time I hear of some hot new director/producer/whatever it turns out they're related to someone famous. I mean everyone from JJ Abrams to Giadia de Laurentiis got their start because they grew up in the lap of some powerful Hollywood player.
This sounds way more ragey than I mean it. It's obviously something we all know about. Nepotism is in every industry. I guess we just hear more about the entertainment industry in general.
@madelyn: That's what the casting couch is for. There are many actors (male and female) who probably got their start through the casting couch since they didn't have any connections.
@madelyn: Ahhh, but you're talking about fame, which does not equal fulfillment or a happy life - quite the opposite when it is based on nothing substantial, as we see played out over and over again (Misha Barton being just the latest example.) I'm talking about the real kind of success and happiness that can only come from years of hard work and honing one's talent.
Nepotism only opens a door, and leaves the person feeling (in their heart of hearts) like they don't really deserve what's on the other side; I prefer to kick down the door after much effort - that way I know I got there through my own will and talent. Not to mention that the journey is always the best part.
Rachel Getting Married is a delight, for those who haven't seen it. Lumet really gets how sisters talk to each other, how family relationships can be really fraught underneath but fine on the surface, and how AWESOME a wedding can be.
@tell Dolly Parton again: I have to find some time to watch it alone; my irrational prejudice against Anne Hathaway has prevented me from renting it and my partner refuses to support any wedding themed film.
Oh, well, how nice that no one sits around and talks about race (a myth AND a lie! I've never heard a single person of color sit and talk about race. LORD, what a crazy concept!) and that it's soooooo boring to her to sit around and observe Black History Month, which was instituted for no reason except so that 'everyone' could sit around and be all sanctimonious about the non-stop inclusion of African-American history in our culture. You tell 'em, Jenny!
Being "post-racial" is SO groovy when you're a privileged rich person.
PS: Rachel Getting Married was whiny, hipster, self-indulgent bullshit that made me want to pull my eyes out.
@f_t_e: I don't think you're being fair to her. She's referring to how race is talked about within mixed raced couples and relationships. When I'm hanging out with my white friends or dating white dudes, I actually don't talk constantly about the fact that I'm black and they're white and oh, isn't that interesting!? You just ARE. And I found it refreshing that the mixed race couples in Rachel Getting Married were treated as normal couples, because they were.
Also, February Black History annoys the shit out of me too. I wish for the day, it won't be necessary because it's treated as a regular part of American history and not ghettoized to the shortest month of the year.
@ShanaElmsford: Thanks for saying this--I couldn't figure out how to put my thoughts into words. I can't speak to the issue of Black History Month, but have been part of an interracial couple. What you said is right--we didn't think how special or unique or different we were for being an interracial couple; we were just a couple.
But, and this kind of speaks to your point about Black History Month, plenty of couples who went before us were required to think about (and talk about, presumably) how special and unique they were--because it was dangerous.
@f_t_e: I don't think she ever said she was post-racial or that our society was post-racial. Her thing about Black History Month was an off-the-cuff comment, without any context or background, so it's unfair to assume that that's the reason she said it.
And you know, she is making an entire movie about race, so I would imagine that requires a lot of sitting around talking about race on her part too.
@f_t_e: I see your point (yes, people do talk about race), but I also see hers: as one-half an interracial couple, I have to say that race is not always the central narrative in our relationship. Sometimes it is, and sometimes it's not, and it is kind of refreshing to me to see a movie that reflects that, that sometimes other issues will take precedence over racial difference in an interracial relationship.
@f_t_e: You know, I think that at the point where two people are getting married, I imagine both they and their families would have already discussed it. By the time you're getting married, it would be sort of an old topic.
I liked that she resisted the popular urge to make this a "message movie" about interracial relationships. We already have one "Crash."
@f_t_e: As a white, I don't feel qualified to discuss the race part of your comment; but as a cinephile, I have to say "Rachel Getting Married was whiny, hipster, self-indulgent bullshit that made me want to pull my eyes out" sums up my feelings perfectly!
@ShanaElmsford: Again, this is totally coming from a place of privilege. How nice to not have to discuss being a biracial couple, how sweet to have a big, giant estate where you can have your multicultural, multiethnic, several day wedding fest.
When people say things like well, *I* don't notice race, and if *you* do, I guess it speaks more about YOU than ME, so YOU must be the racist! that's completely ridiculous and strawman logic.
And, yes, I wish BHM was EVERY month, I wish we didn't need to 'force' people to recognize it, but the very fact that Lumet is so flippiant about it proves why it is still needed, and it's been 40 years of activists and edcuators battling to make sure that BHM exists that gives her the luxury of thinking it is unneccessary.
@f_t_e: being part of an interracial couple, I noticed race quite often whether it was in the eyes of stranger, his family or my own internal reflection. I was attracted to him as a smart, handsome, witty, fun and sexy man but in the context of our society, the relationship soon became about cultural differences; growing up black versus growing up white.
I've always been of the belief that people who say they don't "see color" or "notice race" are lying. One can both "see color" and "notice race" without it being a negative connotation. Further while we are all more alike than we are different, there are distinctions about ourselves which should be acknowledged, understood and honored.
@f_t_e: your Rachel Getting Married insight explains exactly why it got made. People don't mind that stuff, at all. It's an affirmation of their lives and choices and I guess if Jenny Lumet can get a screenwriting career out of tapping into that narcissism so well, that's the bright side, right?
@f_t_e: In your comments, you concentrate on Lumet's class("Being post-racial is SO groovy when you're a privileged rich person").
Does that mean if she had these exact same opinions about being "post-racial" but was a working-class biracial woman who had to struggle to open Hollywood's doors, you'd agree with her?
Because I don't think that's the case. I get the impression that your actual opinion is: "being post-racial is SO bullshit" -- full stop. So, OWN it. It's a valid POV that many agree with. The straw man of classism and privilege is unnecessary to your argument.
@f_t_e: I agree with you on RGM. I can endure just about anything on screen, but it was difficult to reconcile the pretension with the empty story and characters.
@Shotrock: Yeah, no matter who says it, it's bullshit.
But the fact of the matter is, my entire point, that I don't think she would have these opinions if she was a working class biracial woman who benefited so greatly from wealth, privilege, and nepotism her entire life. It is a LUXURY to say things like that, to take for granted that you can get a movie made as a biracial woman because, you know, your Dad is Sidney Lumet. It is a LUXURY to say well, gosh, no one *I* know sits around and talks about race. It is being a privileged rich person that allows her to be "post-racial." I, frankly, don't know a lot of "working class" people who are "so over that whole racism thing." Of course Jenny Lumet wants to puke when she has to hear about BHM, she's been lucky enough to be exposed to a wider world her entire life, when it comes to art, culture, and history. But it is the very height of ignorant privilege to not acknowledge that experience is not universal. And, to me, that's not a strawman, it's a simple fact.
@f_t_e: As a "middle-class black woman I totally get what Lumet was saying. I know a lot of well-meaning white liberals who I know think of me as "their black friend" as in "Wow I'm so liberal, I have a black friend and we will have so many deep discussions about race and Obama and racism and all that stuff" when with my REAL friends (white, black, or other) race may come up, but we usually deal with each other on a people/personal level. The fawning over BHM/February/MLK Day is annoying because "black history" is AMERICAN history. Fucking learn/teach it all year 'round.
As far as being in an interracial relationship; I sometimes ask my boyfriend "Voice of White America" questions not only because he's white, but because he grew up in a town that was nearly all white and he has a unique perspective on race relations that comes from growing up in a vacuum and most of his early ideas about people who weren't like him were made solely through white interpretations of notions of race, not through personal experience. I find it useful to hear about that perspective because my go-to emotion is "Wow that's stupid" and he can often provide a more nuanced view. Needless to say, he's expanded his worldview since his childhood. Many people have not.
This is easily one of the most beautiful women I have ever seen. I hope that doesn't come off shallow. Relaxed, classy, funny, wow. Rachel Getting Married is on my schedule tonight - no idea why I haven't watched it before now. Great interview to read, thanks.
@SomeAuthorGirl: I really, really enjoyed the movie. I adored the way the interracial relationship was handled (in that it wasn't "handled" at all) and I'm glad to hear that it wasn't a deliberate device--just a representation of what she knew. (Although I didn't really doubt this.)
Hmm. Don't know if I like the sound of her wanting to puke her guts out about Black History Month. It's great that she doesn't care, but it's important to a lot of people, you know!
I guess what I mean to say is, I get what she's saying, and I get that she wants to have a sense of humor about things. But that doesn't mean that the issues that exist go away.
@laureltreedaphne: I read her comment differently. I don't think she is saying that all the issues have been done away with but she has the same complaint a lot of people have with black history month. The one month in the year where everyone gets preachy about race, and all major corporations are celebrating achievements of black people, and we all get to feel sanctimonious, but all other 11 months we are ignored. What I get from it is her desire for all racial identities to be a seamless and integrated part of American life as it is for White Americans.
@linnyt is a walking cliché: My grandpa qualified for the 1952 Olympics (target shooting) and had to go fight in the Korean War instead. Truly lousy travel agent there.
07/17/09
We invented prom from scratch - but we didn't watch movies for research.
ALSO - I LOVE Lena Horne! her talented, beautiful genes have obviously carried.
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And now I need to rewatch Running on Empty. I assume HBO no longer plays it once a week.
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This sounds way more ragey than I mean it. It's obviously something we all know about. Nepotism is in every industry. I guess we just hear more about the entertainment industry in general.
07/17/09
07/17/09
Nepotism only opens a door, and leaves the person feeling (in their heart of hearts) like they don't really deserve what's on the other side; I prefer to kick down the door after much effort - that way I know I got there through my own will and talent. Not to mention that the journey is always the best part.
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I kept wanting to escape that family and the scene; very uncomfortable and emotional.
07/17/09
Also, that chanting business really drove me nuts.
Apart from that, I thought it was well done.
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Being "post-racial" is SO groovy when you're a privileged rich person.
PS: Rachel Getting Married was whiny, hipster, self-indulgent bullshit that made me want to pull my eyes out.
07/17/09
07/17/09
Also, February Black History annoys the shit out of me too. I wish for the day, it won't be necessary because it's treated as a regular part of American history and not ghettoized to the shortest month of the year.
07/17/09
But, and this kind of speaks to your point about Black History Month, plenty of couples who went before us were required to think about (and talk about, presumably) how special and unique they were--because it was dangerous.
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07/17/09
And you know, she is making an entire movie about race, so I would imagine that requires a lot of sitting around talking about race on her part too.
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I liked that she resisted the popular urge to make this a "message movie" about interracial relationships. We already have one "Crash."
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07/17/09
When people say things like well, *I* don't notice race, and if *you* do, I guess it speaks more about YOU than ME, so YOU must be the racist! that's completely ridiculous and strawman logic.
And, yes, I wish BHM was EVERY month, I wish we didn't need to 'force' people to recognize it, but the very fact that Lumet is so flippiant about it proves why it is still needed, and it's been 40 years of activists and edcuators battling to make sure that BHM exists that gives her the luxury of thinking it is unneccessary.
07/17/09
I've always been of the belief that people who say they don't "see color" or "notice race" are lying. One can both "see color" and "notice race" without it being a negative connotation. Further while we are all more alike than we are different, there are distinctions about ourselves which should be acknowledged, understood and honored.
07/17/09
07/17/09
Does that mean if she had these exact same opinions about being "post-racial" but was a working-class biracial woman who had to struggle to open Hollywood's doors, you'd agree with her?
Because I don't think that's the case. I get the impression that your actual opinion is: "being post-racial is SO bullshit" -- full stop. So, OWN it. It's a valid POV that many agree with. The straw man of classism and privilege is unnecessary to your argument.
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But the fact of the matter is, my entire point, that I don't think she would have these opinions if she was a working class biracial woman who benefited so greatly from wealth, privilege, and nepotism her entire life. It is a LUXURY to say things like that, to take for granted that you can get a movie made as a biracial woman because, you know, your Dad is Sidney Lumet. It is a LUXURY to say well, gosh, no one *I* know sits around and talks about race. It is being a privileged rich person that allows her to be "post-racial." I, frankly, don't know a lot of "working class" people who are "so over that whole racism thing." Of course Jenny Lumet wants to puke when she has to hear about BHM, she's been lucky enough to be exposed to a wider world her entire life, when it comes to art, culture, and history. But it is the very height of ignorant privilege to not acknowledge that experience is not universal. And, to me, that's not a strawman, it's a simple fact.
07/18/09
As far as being in an interracial relationship; I sometimes ask my boyfriend "Voice of White America" questions not only because he's white, but because he grew up in a town that was nearly all white and he has a unique perspective on race relations that comes from growing up in a vacuum and most of his early ideas about people who weren't like him were made solely through white interpretations of notions of race, not through personal experience. I find it useful to hear about that perspective because my go-to emotion is "Wow that's stupid" and he can often provide a more nuanced view. Needless to say, he's expanded his worldview since his childhood. Many people have not.
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I guess what I mean to say is, I get what she's saying, and I get that she wants to have a sense of humor about things. But that doesn't mean that the issues that exist go away.
07/17/09
Maybe I am just projecting :-)
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