I don't know from her perspective why she loves fashion the way she does, but I can tell you from mine.
I grew up poor. We shopped in thrift stores for back to school clothes. Before it was cool. I got picked on. I grew up and turned my clothes from the thrift store into my personal creations, fixing them up from bits I picked up at the fabric store with babysitting money. I noticed Vogue. I started clipping pages I liked, collaging them and making art projects.
I saved up my money for forever and went to the mall to finally spend it. I found on a sale rack a heavily discounted DKNY tweed coat. I saw it in the store and tried it on and had this wonderful feeling. I honestly don't know what it was, just before I realized I didn't actually have enough for it. It was the most beautiful thing I ever thought that I could own, and I was shy of owning it even with all the money I had saved from babysitting and chores for the better part of a year. I cried. My mom found me in the store and gave me the difference I was short so I could have it, because she wanted to badly to be able to contribute to something nice of my own and not a hand-me-down. I've now had it for 15 years. I have worn it completely out. But I will never get rid of it.
I also grew up and found that there wasn't any money for college, despite a mysterious fund that my dead-beat dad set up that never materialized (obviously a lie to placate my mom). I eventually landed a job at Saks Fifth Avenue. I can not tell you how proud it made my mom that I had such a prestigious job, in her eyes. It was something that I kept wanting to pinch myself. I worked there! I was a part of fashion! My meager salary barely supported me, but I was a part of it. I could fuss and gawk at beautiful clothes and makeup and handbags all day, and I got paid for it! And the discount. I didn't make much, but I saved up and bought a Louis Vuitton purse. I've had this conversation with a couple of my super-close friends and I've come to the conclusion that these fashion things that I own are a symbol that I will never go back to the past. I wont be poor. I don't care that it sounds shallow. It probably means that I haven't found the right words, or I wasn't honest enough about my experience. Its the best I can manage to say.
But I really wanted to share this because we probably will never know what fashion means to Beth Ditto. I can tell you from having something a little similar in my past there is way more to it that even what made it into this comment. But also maybe we need to think to ourselves that people can have these shallow likes, fleeting fancies that we indulge in. It should never take away from the positive work that anyone does in other areas of their life. People are so much more than one sliver that is shown in the press, or in public for that matter. Sometimes we can't explain why a dress makes us happy. I don't think of her love of fashion as Ms. Ditto's defining aspect of character. She's a multi-faceted gem, thankfully not a cookie cutter bland personality as the author pointed out, with a parent quietly ushering her into the business. I'm pretty sure she's got the substance to back it up, even if the world isn't privy to it.
I know that the personal is political. But sometimes the personal can be personal and almost unexplainable. I feel like she is doing something, in spite (or because) of her love of high fashion. She refused Top Shop, and insisted on only designing a line for plus size. I say awesome! I have a few questions for all of us. Do we (and I mean this in a really broad sense) really need to rip someone down a notch? Do we need to insist her clothes she designed are ugly? Do we need to judge her friendships with the fashionable? Is this really what I signed up for in feminism? I remember getting schooled by a fellow feminist when I said something a bit degrading about a woman in my younger years. I learned from that and can say I feel like this kind of attitude holds us back. How do you get shit accomplished when one that is doing so much gets this kind of scrutiny, over dresses! Lets report to each other on awesome things women do, and celebrate things that bring us joy. I want so badly for everyone to build each other up. I know not everything is positive, but I can be hopeful, right?
***This got much longer than I intended, holy cow!
Does anyone else have an issue about the fashion industry's tokenism of Beth Ditto as the pet fat girl? And why is she glorifying wearing fur? I think it reflects poorly that she's sucking up accolades from an industry that is dedicated to oppressing women- this is not a reflection of social change within fashion, she's a novelty, the flavor of the week. I can't get behind it.
@biancajames: Yes—because wearing a spandex dress with neon dominos on it is not paying any particular homage to fashion or design, even if you are fat.
Punk has always been partially about fashion. Vivienne Westwood founded the "Sex" shop with Malcom Mclaren, and now she is high dollar designer. I don't know how I feel though about tranforming Beth Ditto into fashion's next 'it' girl as one day your 'in' and the next day your 'out', and she's to good for that.
@harpy: I have such a low opinion of the fashon industry in general that I'm afraid I can't see their embrace of Beth Ditto as anything other than tokenism. It won't last. It also won't open up the door for other fat girls to be taken seriously or even given the time of day by high fashion designers. If these people suddenly start making their ranges in sizes up to 20, I will happily eat my words. But let's just say I'm not holding my breath.
@BiteMeMitchell!: At least she was able to design her own clothing line for one season. It was interesting. If it sells, maybe there will be more opportunites for plus sizes.
This reflects a lot about how I feel about "high" fashion, which is similar to how I feel about "fine" art. A lot of it is self-important, but a lot of it is really beautiful, but exists on a level that isn't particularly practical or meant for the every day. It's an expression, which is lovely, but it hides some pretty elitist ideas.
Which is why I ultimately prefer going to thrift stores and Etsy.
Even if I can't read it, just the fact that "a queer theory reading of the Annual Taxidermy Convention, Competition, And Trade Show" exists makes me unspeakably happy.
1. I really like her point about fashion as art - I could never afford Rodarte, or Alexander McQueen, but damned if I don't love looking at them.2. Ok, I just have to say: I am totally interested in an essay about hobos.
Jenna promoted this comment
Edited by sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell at 08/11/09 4:18 PM
sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell was starred
sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell was unstarred
The true import of this paradox — the idea that fashion relies on a vast underclass whose belief in the value of products they could never afford actually inflates those very products' prices high enough that the profits they make for the label can be invested in giving away shit to those who actually could afford to buy at the inflated value
This is the most brilliantly expressed thought I have read on the site to date. Fucking Brilliant, but it breaks my heart.
@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: Sadly, it's nothing new. Isn't the whole point of $50,000 couture products to bump up the prestige of the $50 dollar products by the same company by association?
The reason they beat Brangelina is because (1) people aren't worried that their children will be treated like a pokemon collection and (2) Ellen and Portia don't already have a whole brood running around and therefore the children would not be overwhelming.
Also, neither Ellen or Portia has ever been known to wear a vial of blood around their neck...
I love how Mr. Plumber tried to back track and explain the definition of 'queer' to make it seem like he wasn't being homophobic and evil. If there was/is a God he wouldn't let someone like this exist.
Is it really still acceptable for people to say they don't want their kids "around gays?" I haven't heard anyone say that since the early 90's and even then people looked at you sideways.
@AthertonMerriweather: Did you see Top Model last night? Amanda said that she doesn't want her infant son to grow up to be gay, so she walks around nude in front of him to get him acclimated to the female figure. And then, you've got Carrie Prejean mentioning in an interview that pedophilia is a central part of the homosexual lifestyle. There is a big group of people out there who still carry around these terrible, terrible stereotypes.
@Kristinkles: I don't watch Top Model and it seems like this chick clearly has issues. That said, a former boss of mine suspects very heavily that his son is gay (he's around 8-9). He doesn't have a problem with it and supports him fully and isn't trying to "force" heterosexuality into him (there are no gay-straight camps in this kid's future), but I do think that he also hopes that he's wrong. Not because he has a problem with homosexuality but because of the social difficulties that come with it. I don't know anyone heterosexual who would wish that their child was gay or transgendered or otherwise "different."
And yes, as a black woman I recognize that race and gender come with it's own difficulties, but those are ones that my mother (as a black woman) could prepare me for. If I were to hypothetically have a gay child, I would worry a lot that I would be sending them out into a world in which I couldn't arm them or protect them from because I hadn't gone through a similar experience. That the most I could do is sort of stand by and watch. And that would suck. A lot.
@LibidinousSlut: My younger brother, who I adore immensely and is all kinds of awesome, is gay and this was clear from a very young age. So I do see where you're coming from, and I still fear for his safety regularly. But I nonetheless think it's an unhelpful frame of mind for two reasons: one, even those of us who are open-minded need to help change prevailing social attitudes, in part by modeling total acceptance, and two, if my brother weren't gay, he'd be a different person, and there is not another person in the world I'd trade him for. It's not that being gay is somehow terribly important to who he is - but that each little part of ourselves combines to make us who we are, and I wouldn't change him in any single way.
@LibidinousSlut: A homophobic bitch my husband worked with for a while asked him one day "Would you want your son to be gay?" His answer "No, because he'd have to deal with bigots like you. Otherwise, I wouldn't care." And while I agree and support him in this answer, if one of our children is gay I hope they are able to be true to themselves in their life and their choices.
@Laulau: I agree with the spirit of your comment, but not it's entirety. I made my initial point because while the top model's reaction to her fear is obviously ludicrous to act like everyone who has apprehensions about raising a gay child is a crazy, homophobe is unfair.
On a different note, I don't know if it's my responsibility to model total acceptance. The best I can do (or anyone really) is to live my life in closest alignment to my own value systems. To say I can't or shouldn't have certain concerns of fears, particularly when those fears are based on facts as opposed to perceptions, is well to diminish myself as a person, I think. For example, I date interacially because I don't really give a damn about the social implications. But to say that every person should date interacially and take on those social implications (including funny looks even in major cities) I think is unfair.
@LibidinousSlut: I see what you're saying, and perhaps part of the reason I think that at least I need to model total acceptance (to the best of my ability) is that is part of my value system. I guess part of where I think the interracial dating analogy falls apart (since I agree that it's not fair to ask individuals to take on significant burdens even in the pursuit of political and ethical ideals - in fact, I just made a similar comment with respect to egg freezing in the past few days), is that (a) obviously people don't choose to be gay, and (b) in the case of a child or a sibling, it's not about taking on burdens for myself, it's about helping someone else get through the crap society flings at them. It's one thing to talk about which costs I should be willing to accept for myself, it's another thing to talk about what I should want for, or what attitude I should have towards the people I happen to love.
I do think this is a big and complex question, so I feel like I'm skating over a lot of details and don't want to come across as unsympathetic to your point. But I'll freely admit that actually having a gay sibling has hugely shaped my feelings on this subject.
@Kristinkles: 'Amanda said that she doesn't want her infant son to grow up to be gay, so she walks around nude in front of him to get him acclimated to the female figure.'
I want to have kids just so I can send them over to visit Ellen and Portia. Ellen seems like she would be the most fabulous aunt/babysitter EVER, and then maybe while they're doing collages or whatever, I could hang out drinking hot ham water with Portia.
08/12/09
I grew up poor. We shopped in thrift stores for back to school clothes. Before it was cool. I got picked on. I grew up and turned my clothes from the thrift store into my personal creations, fixing them up from bits I picked up at the fabric store with babysitting money. I noticed Vogue. I started clipping pages I liked, collaging them and making art projects.
I saved up my money for forever and went to the mall to finally spend it. I found on a sale rack a heavily discounted DKNY tweed coat. I saw it in the store and tried it on and had this wonderful feeling. I honestly don't know what it was, just before I realized I didn't actually have enough for it. It was the most beautiful thing I ever thought that I could own, and I was shy of owning it even with all the money I had saved from babysitting and chores for the better part of a year. I cried. My mom found me in the store and gave me the difference I was short so I could have it, because she wanted to badly to be able to contribute to something nice of my own and not a hand-me-down. I've now had it for 15 years. I have worn it completely out. But I will never get rid of it.
I also grew up and found that there wasn't any money for college, despite a mysterious fund that my dead-beat dad set up that never materialized (obviously a lie to placate my mom). I eventually landed a job at Saks Fifth Avenue. I can not tell you how proud it made my mom that I had such a prestigious job, in her eyes. It was something that I kept wanting to pinch myself. I worked there! I was a part of fashion! My meager salary barely supported me, but I was a part of it. I could fuss and gawk at beautiful clothes and makeup and handbags all day, and I got paid for it! And the discount. I didn't make much, but I saved up and bought a Louis Vuitton purse. I've had this conversation with a couple of my super-close friends and I've come to the conclusion that these fashion things that I own are a symbol that I will never go back to the past. I wont be poor. I don't care that it sounds shallow. It probably means that I haven't found the right words, or I wasn't honest enough about my experience. Its the best I can manage to say.
But I really wanted to share this because we probably will never know what fashion means to Beth Ditto. I can tell you from having something a little similar in my past there is way more to it that even what made it into this comment. But also maybe we need to think to ourselves that people can have these shallow likes, fleeting fancies that we indulge in. It should never take away from the positive work that anyone does in other areas of their life. People are so much more than one sliver that is shown in the press, or in public for that matter. Sometimes we can't explain why a dress makes us happy. I don't think of her love of fashion as Ms. Ditto's defining aspect of character. She's a multi-faceted gem, thankfully not a cookie cutter bland personality as the author pointed out, with a parent quietly ushering her into the business. I'm pretty sure she's got the substance to back it up, even if the world isn't privy to it.
I know that the personal is political. But sometimes the personal can be personal and almost unexplainable. I feel like she is doing something, in spite (or because) of her love of high fashion. She refused Top Shop, and insisted on only designing a line for plus size. I say awesome! I have a few questions for all of us. Do we (and I mean this in a really broad sense) really need to rip someone down a notch? Do we need to insist her clothes she designed are ugly? Do we need to judge her friendships with the fashionable? Is this really what I signed up for in feminism? I remember getting schooled by a fellow feminist when I said something a bit degrading about a woman in my younger years. I learned from that and can say I feel like this kind of attitude holds us back. How do you get shit accomplished when one that is doing so much gets this kind of scrutiny, over dresses! Lets report to each other on awesome things women do, and celebrate things that bring us joy. I want so badly for everyone to build each other up. I know not everything is positive, but I can be hopeful, right?
***This got much longer than I intended, holy cow!
08/11/09
08/11/09
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08/11/09
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08/11/09
Which is why I ultimately prefer going to thrift stores and Etsy.
08/11/09
08/11/09
08/11/09
08/11/09
08/11/09
08/11/09
This is the most brilliantly expressed thought I have read on the site to date. Fucking Brilliant, but it breaks my heart.
08/11/09
08/11/09
05/07/09
05/07/09
05/07/09
Also, neither Ellen or Portia has ever been known to wear a vial of blood around their neck...
Just kidding Brad and Angelina, we love you.
05/07/09
05/07/09
05/07/09
05/07/09
05/07/09
And yes, as a black woman I recognize that race and gender come with it's own difficulties, but those are ones that my mother (as a black woman) could prepare me for. If I were to hypothetically have a gay child, I would worry a lot that I would be sending them out into a world in which I couldn't arm them or protect them from because I hadn't gone through a similar experience. That the most I could do is sort of stand by and watch. And that would suck. A lot.
05/07/09
05/07/09
05/07/09
On a different note, I don't know if it's my responsibility to model total acceptance. The best I can do (or anyone really) is to live my life in closest alignment to my own value systems. To say I can't or shouldn't have certain concerns of fears, particularly when those fears are based on facts as opposed to perceptions, is well to diminish myself as a person, I think. For example, I date interacially because I don't really give a damn about the social implications. But to say that every person should date interacially and take on those social implications (including funny looks even in major cities) I think is unfair.
05/07/09
I do think this is a big and complex question, so I feel like I'm skating over a lot of details and don't want to come across as unsympathetic to your point. But I'll freely admit that actually having a gay sibling has hugely shaped my feelings on this subject.
05/07/09
05/07/09
What the motherfucking what now?
05/07/09
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05/07/09
05/07/09
Buster: Mmmmmmmmm, its so watery, and yet theres a smack of ham to it.
Lindsay: Its hot ham water.