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New York, 3:48 AM
Wed Nov 25
57 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of ArtfulSlinger ArtfulSlinger
    11/19/09

    In reply to Precious: "Fairy Tale" Or Film With "As Much Redeeming Social Value As A Porn Flick"?
    I can see where the criticism on Oprah is coming from, but I have to think that all the riches in the world can not take away the suffering she once went through as a young girl. She was sexually assaulted, pregnant and poor before age 16. I believe her quote is really expressing her own issues, that she now looks past the people that she once was, and thats a hard realization some times.
     Reply
    ArtfulSlinger was starred ArtfulSlinger was unstarred
    Image of Eric Northman is mine Eric Northman is mine
    11/18/09

    In reply to Precious: "Fairy Tale" Or Film With "As Much Redeeming Social Value As A Porn Flick"?
    "I really wanted to show a young woman who changes her life without falling in love and without getting married," Sapphire told me, "and without plastic surgery or a physical change."

    YES! I loathe movies where the female character's life changes for the better/improves mainly because she falls in love, gets married, loses weight, transforms into a beautiful swan. Basically these women have conformed to some societal ideal (be it beauty/relationship standards) and now they deserve to be happy.

    In terms of our pop culture (music, books, songs), I'd have to think have to think hard to come up with these kinds of example. I really love this message.
     Reply
    Eric Northman is mine was starred Eric Northman is mine was unstarred
    Image of girlscoutcookie is back from hiatus girlscoutcookie is back from hiatus
    11/18/09

    In reply to Precious: "Fairy Tale" Or Film With "As Much Redeeming Social Value As A Porn Flick"?
    Only tangentially related, but I had a dream last night that I became friends with Gaby Sidibe and we went to this awesome park and ate popsicles (it was summertime) and hung out all day together. She was delightful, and I was sorry to wake up.

    I doubt Precious will come to any theaters less than two hours from me, because where I live sucks. But I'm really torn about seeing it, regardless. I just don't know if I can put myself through that. I feel like it's something I ought to do as a self-improvement exercise (I haven't been made to feel that way, I just do) kind of like An Inconvenient Truth. Which I haven't seen yet either, which I feel like makes me a Bad Liberal.
     Reply
    girlscoutcookie is back from hiatus was starred girlscoutcookie is back from hiatus was unstarred
    Image of Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny. Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.
    11/18/09

    In reply to Precious: "Fairy Tale" Or Film With "As Much Redeeming Social Value As A Porn Flick"?
    I disagree on a fundamental level with the Washington Post review but I understand how he got to that position.
    It does bother me that people that, to date, haven't given a shit about girls like Precious SUDDENLY are so sympathetic to their plight. People who have never volunteered, people who have argued against their taxes going to welfare, people who are against a public option for health care, people who argue a difference between rape and "rape-rape", people who make fun of the obese are suddenly appalled by the situation Precious is in. Fuck you, you are a part of the problem. You helped create this rape culture that makes it difficult for women to speak out. You don't want women like Precious to have access to good health care. You don't get to protest the building of a half-way house in your neighborhood and then claim to be moved by Precious' plight.
    I think that a lot of people of all races are using their movie ticket as a badge to prove they care, and that is bullshit, but it's a problem with the viewers, not the film.
     Reply
    Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny. was starred Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny. was unstarred
    Image of dcetstyle dcetstyle
    11/18/09

    @Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: You are very right and the sad thing is after awards season these same young girls/women will be ignored again.
     Reply
    Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny. promoted this comment dcetstyle was starred dcetstyle was unstarred
    Image of Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny. Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.
    11/18/09

    @dcetstyle: It really pisses me off. Going to see the film is not a bragging right. You see it because you want to, not because you are so progressive.
     Reply
    Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny. was starred Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny. was unstarred
    Image of Benevolent_Dictatrix (patently absurd) Benevolent_Dictatrix (patently absurd)
    11/18/09

    In reply to Precious: "Fairy Tale" Or Film With "As Much Redeeming Social Value As A Porn Flick"?
    I think that all of the controversy surrounding this film boils down to the limited representation of Black stories in the film world today. Because there is such a lack of movies that tell the stories of Black people (particularly Black girls) people have to treat Precious as The Defining Black Girl Story. So then people are offended that The Defining Black Girl Story is one of poverty and abuse. Or they are put off because it's not as realistic about the poverty and abuse that some Black Girls face. If it was a different story about a middle class Black girl with loving parents, people might complain that it is dishonest about the poverty and abuse that some Black girls face. I think the lesson is that we need more stories, because one movie cannot possibly represent everyone's experience and we should stop expecting it to do so.
     Reply
    Benevolent_Dictatrix (patently absurd) was starred Benevolent_Dictatrix (patently absurd) was unstarred
    Image of SarsDoesntSave SarsDoesntSave
    11/18/09

    @Benevolent_Dictatrix (patently absurd): Yes. I think you just answered my question above, in fact.
     Reply
    Benevolent_Dictatrix (patently absurd) promoted this comment SarsDoesntSave was starred SarsDoesntSave was unstarred
    Image of Benevolent_Dictatrix (patently absurd) Benevolent_Dictatrix (patently absurd)
    11/18/09

    @SarsDoesntSave: Thanks. You raise a good point in your post above too. Even if there was wider representation of Black girls' stories in film, would they all appeal to White audiences as much as this one? In other words, if Precious was about that middle class girl in the suburbs with two loving parents, would White people still want to see it? I think that is very valid question that probably has a very troubling answer.
     Reply
    Benevolent_Dictatrix (patently absurd) was starred Benevolent_Dictatrix (patently absurd) was unstarred
    Image of SarsDoesntSave SarsDoesntSave
    11/18/09

    @Benevolent_Dictatrix (patently absurd): I think you have a good point...and it makes me realize that much of my distress actually has less to do with the film and more to do with what the reaction to the film says about our culture.
     Reply
    SarsDoesntSave was starred SarsDoesntSave was unstarred
    Image of whynotshesaid whynotshesaid
    11/19/09

    @Benevolent_Dictatrix (patently absurd): You answered a question I posed above. Thank you.
     Reply
    whynotshesaid was starred whynotshesaid was unstarred
    Image of bluebears bluebears
    11/18/09

    In reply to Precious: "Fairy Tale" Or Film With "As Much Redeeming Social Value As A Porn Flick"?
    (I have not seen the movie or read the book so take this with a grain of salt) I can def. see Sadaa's point but isn't it better to shine some light into this little talked about area of society, so long as it doesn't do more harm than good (ie. perpetuate harmful stereotypes or make people into cartoons)? I also have seen (although am FAR from an expert on) how poorer people, particularly women, particularly women of color are sort of lost at sea and no one will throw them a life saver. or if the do its a super shitty one that will barely keep them afloat. But I still think we have to start somewhere, because for the most part these stories just go untold period.
     Reply
    bluebears was starred bluebears was unstarred
    Image of bluebears bluebears
    11/18/09

    In reply to Precious: "Fairy Tale" Or Film With "As Much Redeeming Social Value As A Porn Flick"?
    This is FINALLY opening in Michigan this Friday. I cannot wait.
     Reply
    bluebears was starred bluebears was unstarred
    Image of clevernamehere clevernamehere
    11/18/09

    In reply to Precious: "Fairy Tale" Or Film With "As Much Redeeming Social Value As A Porn Flick"?
    I haven't seen the movie yet. Even though I've heard it is amazing, I have to gear myself up to see it. So I may not have the most accurate perceptions.

    But these criticisms are ringing false to me. Milloy's argument is that black people with horrific lives make white people feel better. I'm sure there are people who see the character as other, but tragic films always have the potential to make people feel better by comparison whether it is Schindler's List or Precious. Does Milloy want these movies to only be made with white actresses? That doesn't seem like a solution to the problem of race in America.

    I'm not sure if Saar is a detractor of the film. Does she really want people to make films about girls who are abused, end up in jail and have no future other than exploitation and prison? While that might be more accurate, I can't see that working in anything but a documentary. Films usually have some kind of problem resolution and can open dialogue without showing the common result of a situation.

    She is right that social class is a hugely protective factor, but I really wonder about that 1 in 3 statistic. I thought the 1 in 4 number included childhood sexual violence.
     Reply
    clevernamehere was starred clevernamehere was unstarred
    Image of Penny Penny
    11/18/09

    In reply to Precious: "Fairy Tale" Or Film With "As Much Redeeming Social Value As A Porn Flick"?
    The global message I got from the book was the power of literacy and education. Race, socioeconomics, gender, while incredibly relevant in a discussion of literacy, were secondary.

    The problem I have with many reviewers of the film is their stubborn focus on the things they feel are potentially "up for consumption" while ignoring the greater, more powerful message.
     Reply
    Penny was starred Penny was unstarred
    Image of Diziet_Sma Diziet_Sma
    11/18/09

    In reply to Precious: "Fairy Tale" Or Film With "As Much Redeeming Social Value As A Porn Flick"?
    "this movie is in many ways a fairy tale"

    WRONG. It is in every way a fairy tale - it is a freaking MOVIE. With ACTORS, a DIRECTOR, a DP, an EDITOR, PRODUCERS, MARKETERS, etc etc. Such a dumb angle for criticism.

    Still, controversy is good for business, and it's nice to see something worthwhile do well out of it, for a change, as opposed to the Jon-and-Kate-and-Speidi-and-Palin-and-Prejeanasaurus monster.
     Reply
    Edited by Diziet_Sma at 11/18/09 3:38 PM Diziet_Sma was starred Diziet_Sma was unstarred
    Image of SerenityNow SerenityNow
    11/18/09

    In reply to Precious: "Fairy Tale" Or Film With "As Much Redeeming Social Value As A Porn Flick"?
    I just came back form seeing this. I liked it. But, that's not to say it's a problem free movie. I was in a salon where there were perahps 200 people and only two of us were POC. And it made me sensitive to the "othering" this movie created, in that the audience laughed quite a lot whenever a weight joke was made, or the Jamaican girl's accent. Or whenever someone said "motherfucker" etc.
    Which they might have in a black audience too, I don't know. But it still made me feel more sensitive about it...

    After the film Lee Daniels entered the stage to answer some questions. When asked why he chose to change Blu Rain from dark skinned to light skinned I was really interested in hearing the answer, since I think Blu's dark skin in the book was quite important. And he just said that only percent had criticized him for that, so Fuck Them. At which point everyone laughed again.
     Reply
    Plum-Pie promoted this comment SerenityNow was starred SerenityNow was unstarred
    Image of AfroJezeBella AfroJezeBella
    11/18/09

    @SerenityNow: Cause "Fuck your concerns!" is a great way to answer your audience. Did he follow-up with a some what serious answer at least?
     Reply
    AfroJezeBella was starred AfroJezeBella was unstarred
    Image of sportz.star sportz.star
    11/18/09

    @SerenityNow: I can't speak to your experience, but I saw it in Union Square in NYC last night in a fairly full theater of people of varying ages and skin tones and my biggest takeaway about the audience was that I've never seen a film where more people had more inappropriate reactions to on screen activity. My friend and I decided afterward that it was due to discomfort with the subject matter and the relative youth of the crowd (college/high school kids in large part).

    While that doesn't speak to your point of "othering", I guess my point is that people of different colors and ages seem to find this movie difficult (as they should, IMO) and audience reactions are likely to reflect that on many levels.
     Reply
    sportz.star was starred sportz.star was unstarred
    Image of SerenityNow SerenityNow
    11/18/09

    @AfroJezeBella: No, he didn't that's the frustrating part. He just shrugged it off basically, saying there are no other movies about a 400-pound black girl, so noe one had the right to criticize him about it.
     Reply
    SerenityNow was starred SerenityNow was unstarred
    Image of SerenityNow SerenityNow
    11/18/09

    @sportz.star: Yeah, I guess there isn't really an appropriate reaction to some of the scenes in the movie. I was probably being sensitive, since I am black and have also seen the kind of poverty that is shown in the film, so for me it was not that far from reality. But here, a Harlem ghetto is as "other" you can ever get, so it kind of pissed me off when some people laughed like the girls in the film were idiots.
    On the other hand, it might have been me projecting my own fears - as in me wondering if that's the reason they were laughing, even though they might have just reacted on the absurdity.

    But thanks for offering some perspective, I do feel lots better now :)
     Reply
    SerenityNow was starred SerenityNow was unstarred
    Image of AfroJezeBella AfroJezeBella
    11/18/09

    @SerenityNow: It's frustrating cause some, like you, could've been looking for a serious answer like maybe there was a sociological reason he did it or was it just marketing or convenience. He kind of seems like a bit like a pretentious ass now...

    #tips
     Reply
    AfroJezeBella was starred AfroJezeBella was unstarred
    Image of sportz.star sportz.star
    11/18/09

    @SerenityNow: Glad you feel better! I mean, with movies like this a big part of the experience and the dialogue is the varied reactions of the watcher which can be caused by so many factors - including the audience with which we watch - but it helps further the discussion about the value of the film, I think. I found it really interesting last night that the first topic of conversation on leaving the theater last night was the reaction of others and how we might explain it (which of course, we couldn't since we didn't know who these people were, where they came from, etc.)
     Reply
    sportz.star was starred sportz.star was unstarred
    Image of politigeek politigeek
    11/18/09

    @SerenityNow: I was struck by inappropriate laughter in the theater where I was the film last week, too. The packed theater in the DC suburbs had a predominately African-American audience.

    As an abuse survivor, what hurt me most was hearing laughter during scenes with Precious and her mom, not only during verbal abuse but also the worst of the physical.

    I can only guess that it may be because most depictions we see of dominant large mothers (especially POc, thanks to cheap Hollywood stereotypes) have been played for laughs in sitcoms and comedies. The Big Mama who yells and throws things really has a big heart, right? Not. But to hear laughter as I quietly cried and fought triggered flasbacks was pretty demoralizing.

    I share your disappointment re Blu Rain casting, and it sucks that Daniels blew it off.

    Still, I am so moved and grateful that Precious is being seen and is getting the notice that such an amazing character from literature deserves.
     Reply
    Plum-Pie promoted this comment politigeek was starred politigeek was unstarred
    Image of SerenityNow SerenityNow
    11/18/09

    @AfroJezeBella: Exactly. And even though I enjoyed very much the performance of Paula Patton - his way of avoiding to answer, made me feel that there was a reason behind it that he didn't want to admit to. Or, I am being paranoid. Either way, I guess I won't find out tonight.
    But I've heard this question raised on forums like Jezebel for some time, and I doubt tonight was the first time he's gotten it - so how come I haven't read a serious reply anywhere?
     Reply
    SerenityNow was starred SerenityNow was unstarred
    Image of SerenityNow SerenityNow
    11/18/09

    @politigeek: I'm sorry to hear that, and I think you were incredibly strong for even going to see this movie - since the abuse in it is so extreme, and that's what makes it realistic.

    Me too, have heard an endless tirade of abuse hurling at me for hours, and I think that for someone who hasn't been through that, it might seem so surreal that it almost becomes funny.

    On the other hand, I am also very grateful that this has been made into a movie, and is getting such press. Even if people tonight bothered me in soe of their reactions, I have no doubt that movies like this needs to be seen, to help raise awareness.
     Reply
    SerenityNow was starred SerenityNow was unstarred
    Image of TopLevelExecutive TopLevelExecutive
    11/18/09

    @SerenityNow: I think this quote speaks volumes about his casting of Ms. Rain: 'Yet the movie is not neutral on the subject of race and the prejudices that swirl around it, even in the supposedly postracial age of Obama. " ‘Precious’ is so not Obama," Daniels said. " ‘Precious’ is so not P.C. What I learned from doing the film is that even though I am black, I’m prejudiced. I’m prejudiced against people who are darker than me. When I was young, I went to a church where the lighter-skinned you were, the closer you sat to the altar. Anybody that’s heavy like Precious — I thought they were dirty and not very smart. Making this movie changed my heart. I’ll never look at a fat girl walking down the street the same way again."'
    [www.nytimes.com]
     Reply
    nyc-caribbean-ragazza promoted this comment TopLevelExecutive was starred TopLevelExecutive was unstarred
    Image of sportz.star sportz.star
    11/18/09

    In reply to Precious: "Fairy Tale" Or Film With "As Much Redeeming Social Value As A Porn Flick"?
    For me, it wasn't that it was relate-able, but it was a celebration of human spirit and strength beyond what any fairy tale could concoct.

    I would not have faulted Precious for giving up at numerous points in her journey. The fact that she did not is a testament to a strength that's hard to trace in her story -- how someone parented by those who had quit at such an extreme level when she was so young can have the fortitude to do what she began to do, in her situation, at 16, is a testament to the underlying truth that people can persevere and give themselves a chance in any setting.
     Reply
    sportz.star was starred sportz.star was unstarred
    Image of DutchessOfDork DutchessOfDork
    11/18/09

    In reply to Precious: "Fairy Tale" Or Film With "As Much Redeeming Social Value As A Porn Flick"?
    Fairy tale ending?
    The girl is still HIV positive and is still struggling to learn.
     Reply
    DutchessOfDork was starred DutchessOfDork was unstarred
    Image of XavierLucage XavierLucage
    11/18/09

    @DutchessOfDork: ohhh..Spoiler? I haven't seen the movie yet
     Reply
    DutchessOfDork promoted this comment XavierLucage was starred XavierLucage was unstarred
    Image of DutchessOfDork DutchessOfDork
    11/18/09

    @XavierLucage: The article is about the movie and problems with it. Obviously there would be some spoilers.
     Reply
    DutchessOfDork was starred DutchessOfDork was unstarred
    Image of JeanneNarea JeanneNarea
    11/06/09

    In reply to Long Day's Journey Into Night: Reading Push, Watching Precious
    I'm in my mid-40s and once encountered Sapphire when she was giving a poetry reading at an Ivy League university. I smiled and said hello because it was so great to see another black woman in such a monoracial place. She looked right through me and walked on by--we were in an empty hallway. I know that authors bring their "stuff" to their work, but it's literally colored how I view the book and the film. By the way, I'm biracial, and the experience was hurtful and really resonated with me. I do think this movie will attract some people who have very complicated issues with race and class, both black and white. I don't think the movie or book should be given a pass, just because the protagonist represents a horror show of black womanhood. We are all smarter than that.
     Reply
    Cafezinha promoted this comment sybann approved this comment JeanneNarea was starred JeanneNarea was unstarred
    Image of shak_diesel shak_diesel
    11/06/09

    In reply to Long Day's Journey Into Night: Reading Push, Watching Precious
    Latoya, it's always wonderful to read your insights on Jez!

    I recently read this review ([colorlines.com]) of "Precious "in Colorlines magazine, where the author criticizes Lee Daniels for not fully demonstrating that deeply entrenched social inequity that surrounded black women in Harlem in the 1980's. The author takes issue (and I quote) with "a reliance on the villainization of Black matriarch—rather than a mention of systemic race issues—to make the larger message of "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps" more palatable". The author calls this disheartening to see in "Black media" and "irresponsible to the Black community" as it reaffirms stereotypes.

    As a direct product of that Harlem generation, I understand what the author is getting at...but I think it misses the point. Does Sapphire accomplish this systemic approach overview in "Push"? Is this really Lee Daniel's responsibility? And do we really want all black filmmakers to take on this responsibility? I don't want to deny the legitimacy of the authors' critique, but I would love for you to weigh in (and other Jezzies!). What's most frustrating is that the author doesn't really say how Daniel's could have effectively portrayed all of these systemic disparities and stayed true to an individualistic narrative. I also don't know if Daniel's is the best person to tell our collective stories in all the ways that it needs to be told.

    Would love to hear thoughts, comments, etc.... #preciousmovie
     Reply
    LatoyaPeterson promoted this comment shak_diesel was starred shak_diesel was unstarred
    Image of LatoyaPeterson LatoyaPeterson
    11/06/09

    @shak_diesel: Working on itQ! #preciousmovie
     Reply
    LatoyaPeterson was starred LatoyaPeterson was unstarred
    Image of sybann sybann
    11/06/09

    @LatoyaPeterson: His interview with Terry Gross on Fresh Air yesterday was very honest. There may be a podcast up. #preciousmovie
     Reply
    sybann was starred sybann was unstarred
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