So is mental illness a valid exception for pro-lifers who let rape victims and deathbed near-virgins off the hook? If a woman has to choose between going off her meds or severely harming her fetus and goes off her meds, finds she's a danger to herself and others, and has to make a choice, likely later than the first trimester?
My s/o has had two psychotic breaks this year and he's not religious. The first go around he felt like he "touched God" and the second go around all of his scars on his body had great significance but nothing religious (they were his birthmarks that were going to tell us stories).
It's really weird being around someone who is psychotic because some of what they say is true, some true and garbled, some flat out nonsense. I think, sadly, psychosis is really terrifying for everyone involved. And yes, he doesn't remember what all happened or what he said or did. He does remember that when he "hears voices" it's more like an echo of his own thoughts in his head rather than some higher power talking to him through the TV.
I'm no medical expert, but I do have a degree in psych, and this anecdotal experience. I hope is sheds some light into psychosis!
The clip to the Rush Limbaugh clip cuts off right before he gets to the real meat of his argument. Get a load of this: Anyway, she was a man-hating feminist, and this guy that she married is apparently gay. I'll get the story. I've got this whole health care stack. It's just something reminded me of this about what I said the AARP thing, because the magazine that this group sends out that every member gets is outrageously propagandized.
Limbaugh, STFU. What is your point, exactly? Not only are you fat-shaming a woman who died 4 years ago, but you are insulting John Stoltenberg, a gentle, sensitive man who loved her.
He goes on to proclaim about AARP, mind you: all this group is is a bunch of uber-ultraleftist radicals. I'm not saying that they're cracking up yet but, folks, they're unrestrained, their hubris, their arrogance is breathless to behold.
I. Am. Baffled. And he's probably a member of AARP.
Holy fuck, the story about the woman and the baby...
I can't even comment on that part, my mind is racing too much. However, how sis this the first time I'm hearing about this!? I live in Texas and read/watch the news every day! DALLAS MEDIA FAIL.
large scale, epidemiological studies show that a diagnosis of schizophrenia is not an independent risk factor for violence. In terms of mental illnesses, substance use has the strongest statistical link with past violent acts or is predictive of future violence behavior.
however, like the case in canada on the greyhound bus, when someone with schizophrenia commits a murder in the context of being floridly psychotic, it can often be bizarre and terrifying. Delusions and hallucinations can be shockingly real and when people clear with medication the fallout is devastating.
not everyone with schizophrenia who kills someone is delusional to the point of not knowing what's real and what's not - like anyone, they can be violent not in the context of psychosis.
it makes me sad that cases like this become shorthand for mental illness, and that people with schizophrenia (who again, are not that much more violent as a group than the general population) are viewed with suspicion and fear.
Anyone else totally annoyed by the atheist summer camp? One of the best things about atheism is the lack of community around it. Atheists need to stop ruining atheism. You don't believe in God? Great, move on, get a hobby.
@whats_in_a_name: I find the best thing about having to remember to not be judgey is that it reminds me not to annoying and judgey. Some people really enjoy and find great support and comfort in Sunday worship; others do not. Others find it in climbing, canoeing, and rafting. Still others find it in all those activities! How shocking that people can enjoy different activities!
@Dancingfrog: Are you really trying to remember not to be judgey? Because this was really condescending. It's not a crime to find Sunday morning meetings annoying. There are religious and irreligious people who do not enjoy such socialization. Whats_in_a_name did not call people who like to worship annoying.
@seejanerun: There are a lot of ways to be a non-believer, just like there's more than one way to be a Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, or Hindu person.
Some atheists don't have a strong personal philosophy, some do.
And you can't underestimate the difficulty of being a hated minority if you're an atheist kid living among religious fundies.
I used to get taunted and pushed around in the girls' bathroom in elementary school for being an atheist kid. It's not the tragedy to end all tragedies, but it does suck. Having friends my own age who were raised with a similar world view would have been really cool.
@seejanerun: Something that many people consider very important and deeply meaningful was called an annoying Sunday club meeting and I can't even reply with a joke about not being judgey?
That was my point, by the way - that people find different things meaningful, and what's annoying to some is very meaningful to others, but I guess that's too condescending an idea, eh?
@seejanerun: I was a lot more annoyed as a teen atheist to be sent to church camp every summer. Besides, the description of the activities at the camp doesn't include "talking about how cool it is that God doesn't exist," but rather things like climbing and hiking, which you might describe as hobbies. Much better than learning the hand motions to accompany such charming ditties such as "Jump out of the boat and walk on water!!"
Interesting juxtaposition between the story of the atheist camp for kids and the mother who claimed that the devil made her kill her baby. If you're an atheist, there is no devil.
@morninggloria: Not sure if this is what you were implying, BUT PPD is not so much a function of religious fanaticism but rather a legitimate, medical imbalance of hormones and chemicals in the body.
@schweppes: I get that, but I wonder what would happen with the imbalance if you truly did not believe in an ultimate evil being? Like, why would you have to listen to the voices if you don't believe in anything bigger than human beings? I'm not trying to trivialize; I'm just thinking aloud. Or thinking while typing.
@morninggloria: I mean, then you're implying that there's never been an atheist psychotic who hears/listens to voices. I think it's a bit of a stretch to apply our [presumably] rational analysis of what "voices in your head told me to do X" means to someone who's schitzophrenic.
@schweppes: I'm definitely not implying that there's never been an atheist psychotic. I was just wondering where the voices get their authority. If that makes any sense. I'm absolutely not an expert on this whatsoever.
@morninggloria: I feel like the whole reason why we can call it delusional IS the fact that there is no authority. And I guess everyone can make their own conclusions about whether religious beliefs are the exception or the rule to that.
@morninggloria:you make an interesting point. the way that psychotic symptoms make the most sense to me is thinking about an affected brain as having difficulty interpreting stimulus. instead of being able to sit in a room and do your thing, in schizophrenia, regular, neutral stimuli take on huge, and scary significance.
so every time someone sees you on the street, you notice. then whenever you hear a sound, it sounds like your name. then you see a tv show and it's so laden with stimulus it's meant for you. delusions are ways of understanding this world - maybe everyone's looking at me because they are government agents, maybe the tv is talking to me because there's a chip in my head, etc.
there is certainly a link between the types of delusions people have and their beliefs and experiences at baseline. so a religious person (or a person exposed to religious stimuli) may understand voices as religious in nature; someone without a religious background may attribute it to extra terrestrial beings, or the government, or a dead family member, or monsters and demons etc. however, when someone gets to the point that they are so disorganized and terrified that they would commit violence, it's not any more likely that they are experiencing religious delusions or any other type.
i think that mental illness doesn't exist in a vacuum - schizophrenia is certainly biologically based but is culturally and socially mediated and when people are well it's cool to figure out - if the person is interested - what their hallucinations and delusions mean to them when they are not psychotic.
@morninggloria: Well, I was always a little freaked out by how excited my grandparents would get during the phases when my schizophrenic mother would become more religious. They thought a belief in God could help rid her of demons, yet a great deal of her hallucinations dealt with direct communication with God or the Devil, so I never really saw her embracing religion as a good thing. It always pissed me off that my grandparents encouraged her religious fanaticism, even when the line between "Good Christian" and "delusional schizphrenic" was clearly being crossed.
I don't know how different it would be for an atheist with schizophrenia. Generally atheism is the result of a very logical evaluation of religion, but when people hallucinate, their perception of reality becomes so incredibly altered, I don't think it would be that improbable for an atheist to start hallucinating that he/she is speaking with the devil or God.
And of course as the other posters responded, even religious people with schizophrenia often have non-religious hallucinations. My mom's most common was that she and I had ESP, and could reach each others' minds. Also, as others have mentioned, any celebrity, politician or character on tv is an easy source of delusions/hallucinations.
@portia_sue: I work in a psych hospital & I've had patients with each of those- demons, aliens, the gov't. Sometimes they attribute them to nothing. One it was vampires.
"Postpartum psychosis is far rarer, affecting only about one woman in 1,000." Whoaaa, are the numbers really that high, or is there some kind of skew going on?
@schweppes: That still seems pretty high, though, doesn't it? Especially considering post-partum depression (not even psychosis) was utterly taboo 'til a few years ago.
"She was a sweet person and I still love her, but she needs to pay the ultimate price for what she has done," the baby's father, Scott W. Buchholz, told the San Antonio Express-News Monday.
I don't even have words for this. We need more people in this world exactly like you, Scott W. Buchholz. Asshole.
@wtfox?!: As much as I am against the death penalty, I kind of give the father of a baby mutilated/murdered/etc like that a bit of a pass for hateful shit he might say about the murderer a few after the fact.
@schweppes: As do I. I am sure if I had a child and my husband dismembered it's body I would not even be able to articulate what I wanted done to him. Also, this guy is a fellow schizophrenic on 6 anti psychotics and ant-convulsive meds so it a little unclear what he is working with in terms of preventing this, and possibly processing the whole thing.
@wtfox?!: His child was just killed. Murdered. Someone he deeply loved was killed. I'm totally against the death penalty, but I'm sure if something like this occurred, I'd be outraged too and say things that I don't really agree with, from the pain of losing someone so close. As long as no vigilantism occurs, he's entitled to express his pain and anger and loss.
@wtfox?!: I'm with you. I can't blame the guy for making these statements, because certainly he is in a lot of pain, I almost vomited when I read the description of the baby's death. But at the same time, even though he suffers from schizophrenia also, I can't help but think that if there were warning signs, someone in the family should have stepped in.
Without getting too far into it, my mother was diagnosed with schizophrenia after a bout with post-partum depression. My grandparents and father both intervened when there were warning signs.
Advocating for the death of a woman who TOLD the father she had schizophrenia, and spent time in a hospital for PPD is just really cruel. Even though she was ultimately responsible for the child's horrible death, she wasn't necessarily the one who had the ability to prevent it.
@schweppes: I'm no expert on this, but if a woman is experiencing symptoms of PPD, wouldn't someone close to them notice? Like her husband? I have a hard time when people heap all the blame on women who go through this, when there needs to be at least a little accountability on the other people in their life.
I read the story about the woman from Texas, and I don't think I've heard such a terrible thing in my life. Really. The family admitted that she was snapping at simple requests, knew she wasn't taking her medication, and STILL left her alone in the home with that poor baby and fucking swords. I hope this rests on their consciences the rest of their lives. Is there a way to hold the accountable as well as her? Legally?
@GirlSailor: The threshold for being legally responsible for the actions of another adult are ridiculously high, even if you have all the notice in the world and are legally the guardian of that person, it doesn't happen often at all.
@schweppes:For real. I am sure it will rest on their consciences, but if you have ever had to deal with a mentally ill adult, you know that there is very, very little you can do. Being a family member or loved one and trying to take care of someone with such issues is already a grueling, thankless job.
@LaFemme: I understand what you are saying, and I respect it. Also, I do have experience dealing with someone with a mental illness and know how difficult it can be. However, if there is another person who cannot defend themselves in the care of a mentally ill person in the throes of an episode, SOMEONE should have stepped in. That's my only point.
@wtfox?!: I'm excited to send my daughter when she's old enough. They have an activity where you have to prove that invisible unicorns DON'T live in the woods (to show how difficult it is to prove a negative). The young ones have hilarious fun with the invisible unicorn manure. Scatological jokes, humanism, and critical thinking for the win!
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It's really weird being around someone who is psychotic because some of what they say is true, some true and garbled, some flat out nonsense. I think, sadly, psychosis is really terrifying for everyone involved. And yes, he doesn't remember what all happened or what he said or did. He does remember that when he "hears voices" it's more like an echo of his own thoughts in his head rather than some higher power talking to him through the TV.
I'm no medical expert, but I do have a degree in psych, and this anecdotal experience. I hope is sheds some light into psychosis!
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Limbaugh, STFU. What is your point, exactly? Not only are you fat-shaming a woman who died 4 years ago, but you are insulting John Stoltenberg, a gentle, sensitive man who loved her.
He goes on to proclaim about AARP, mind you: all this group is is a bunch of uber-ultraleftist radicals. I'm not saying that they're cracking up yet but, folks, they're unrestrained, their hubris, their arrogance is breathless to behold.
I. Am. Baffled. And he's probably a member of AARP.
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07/29/09
I can't even comment on that part, my mind is racing too much. However, how sis this the first time I'm hearing about this!? I live in Texas and read/watch the news every day! DALLAS MEDIA FAIL.
07/29/09
large scale, epidemiological studies show that a diagnosis of schizophrenia is not an independent risk factor for violence. In terms of mental illnesses, substance use has the strongest statistical link with past violent acts or is predictive of future violence behavior.
however, like the case in canada on the greyhound bus, when someone with schizophrenia commits a murder in the context of being floridly psychotic, it can often be bizarre and terrifying. Delusions and hallucinations can be shockingly real and when people clear with medication the fallout is devastating.
not everyone with schizophrenia who kills someone is delusional to the point of not knowing what's real and what's not - like anyone, they can be violent not in the context of psychosis.
it makes me sad that cases like this become shorthand for mental illness, and that people with schizophrenia (who again, are not that much more violent as a group than the general population) are viewed with suspicion and fear.
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Some atheists don't have a strong personal philosophy, some do.
And you can't underestimate the difficulty of being a hated minority if you're an atheist kid living among religious fundies.
I used to get taunted and pushed around in the girls' bathroom in elementary school for being an atheist kid. It's not the tragedy to end all tragedies, but it does suck. Having friends my own age who were raised with a similar world view would have been really cool.
07/29/09
That was my point, by the way - that people find different things meaningful, and what's annoying to some is very meaningful to others, but I guess that's too condescending an idea, eh?
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so every time someone sees you on the street, you notice. then whenever you hear a sound, it sounds like your name. then you see a tv show and it's so laden with stimulus it's meant for you. delusions are ways of understanding this world - maybe everyone's looking at me because they are government agents, maybe the tv is talking to me because there's a chip in my head, etc.
there is certainly a link between the types of delusions people have and their beliefs and experiences at baseline. so a religious person (or a person exposed to religious stimuli) may understand voices as religious in nature; someone without a religious background may attribute it to extra terrestrial beings, or the government, or a dead family member, or monsters and demons etc. however, when someone gets to the point that they are so disorganized and terrified that they would commit violence, it's not any more likely that they are experiencing religious delusions or any other type.
i think that mental illness doesn't exist in a vacuum - schizophrenia is certainly biologically based but is culturally and socially mediated and when people are well it's cool to figure out - if the person is interested - what their hallucinations and delusions mean to them when they are not psychotic.
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It seems like such a common trope in pop culture (the gov't is sending me messages!) that it must have happened in real life.
07/29/09
I don't know how different it would be for an atheist with schizophrenia. Generally atheism is the result of a very logical evaluation of religion, but when people hallucinate, their perception of reality becomes so incredibly altered, I don't think it would be that improbable for an atheist to start hallucinating that he/she is speaking with the devil or God.
And of course as the other posters responded, even religious people with schizophrenia often have non-religious hallucinations. My mom's most common was that she and I had ESP, and could reach each others' minds. Also, as others have mentioned, any celebrity, politician or character on tv is an easy source of delusions/hallucinations.
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07/29/09
Andrea Dworkin died in 2005.
Also: you are very fat.
Andrea Dworkin was a smart person. You are not.
Please fuck off
Love,
KLondike5
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I don't even have words for this. We need more people in this world exactly like you, Scott W. Buchholz. Asshole.
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Without getting too far into it, my mother was diagnosed with schizophrenia after a bout with post-partum depression. My grandparents and father both intervened when there were warning signs.
Advocating for the death of a woman who TOLD the father she had schizophrenia, and spent time in a hospital for PPD is just really cruel. Even though she was ultimately responsible for the child's horrible death, she wasn't necessarily the one who had the ability to prevent it.
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Yay!
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He will now have to settle for being the weatherman in prison.
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