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New York, 6:55 AM
Sat Nov 21
67 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of sassyredhead sassyredhead
    11/20/09

    In reply to On Leaving Porn, Smiling.
    Hmmmm...Dr. Drew had a hand in this somehow. I am continuously amazed by the people on his Sex Rehab show. I am glad to see that she embraced the process and is doing something positive for herself and for others.
     Reply
    sassyredhead was starred sassyredhead was unstarred
    Image of cand86 cand86
    11/20/09

    In reply to On Leaving Porn, Smiling.
    Penny Flame is one of my favorite performers, and I was sad to see her go, but I'm also incredibly happy that Jennie is happy and healthy and left on her own terms.

    She's obviously just a really awesome woman.
     Reply
    cand86 was starred cand86 was unstarred
    Image of Le Kangourou de Kataroo Le Kangourou de Kataroo
    11/19/09

    In reply to Dugard, Prejean, Suleman: The Pornification Of Inadvertently Famous Women
    I can understand the outrage over the Jaycee Dugard "inspired" film (I'd like to let Seth and Amy have a REALLY!? with that one...) but offering a woman who has modeled lingerie and sexy costumes a porn career doesn't seem like a huge leap to me. Yes, not all models of such clothing want to go into porn, but when you have revealing pictures and a sex type already circulating? I can't work up any ire.
     Reply
    Le Kangourou de Kataroo was starred Le Kangourou de Kataroo was unstarred
    Image of Tippi Hedren Tippi Hedren
    11/19/09

    @Le Kangourou de Kataroo: I agree to an extent. The place where I pause is that Prejean's sex tape wasn't made for a mass audience. It was taken public without her permission.

    Well, supposedly, anyway. I mean it all could have been done for publicity, I guess.
     Reply
    Tippi Hedren was starred Tippi Hedren was unstarred
    Image of cand86 cand86
    11/19/09

    In reply to Dugard, Prejean, Suleman: The Pornification Of Inadvertently Famous Women
    Um, once again, WHY is everybody calling Shane Ryan a pornographer or adult filmmaker? Gah, it's killing me- one article uses that term towards him, and everybody does without checking the facts . . .

    The guy does stupid amateur horror/sexploitation films. Exploitative, sure. Porn, it is not. Disgusting? Certainly. Porn? Nope.

    C'mon, peeps.
     Reply
    cand86 was starred cand86 was unstarred
    Image of girl.of.your.dreams girl.of.your.dreams
    11/19/09

    @cand86: I think this is a really important distinction - though possibly a reason why the idea of him making a Jaycee Dugard film is MORE disturbing.

    This article is about the pornification of inadvertently famous women. I think it makes a good point about the media's sexual objectification of women, but it doesn't exactly apply in the case of the Jaycee film. While I can only speculate on what the film will be, Shane Ryan has not made porn films in the past. It doesn't appear that he is going to all of a sudden start making porn films now. His work isn't like "Nailin Paylin", where a famous woman is replaced with a big-boobed porn star lookalike and put into ridiculous sexual situations. Granted, if it was, it would still be entirely inappropriate. But a look a Ryan's previous films shows that he makes sexually violent exploitation films. Though that doesn't fit as neatly into the thesis of this article, I think it's even more upsetting. Here is a man who has made a career off of portrayals of extreme sexual violence, announcing that he is planning a film based on the story of a rape survivor. It's one thing to make violent films (I personally love horror films, though this brand of exploitation film is definitely not my style). But to take someone's personal story and most likely turn it into an exploitation piece (as that is his M.O.) does strike me as "breathtakingly unkind," to quote the Dugard family.

    (I don't want to link to Mr. Ryan's work, but a quick search will show you that many of his movie trailers are available on YouTube.)
     Reply
    girl.of.your.dreams was starred girl.of.your.dreams was unstarred
    Image of sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell
    11/18/09

    In reply to Oprah Discovers Porn, Jenna Jameson
    Jenna disgusts me. End quote.
     Reply
    sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell was starred sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell was unstarred
    Image of Conrad Conrad
    11/18/09

    @sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell: The 'end quote' is redundant.
     Reply
    sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell promoted this comment Conrad was starred Conrad was unstarred
    Image of kavitabk kavitabk
    11/18/09

    @sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell: Why does she disgust you? She sounds pretty intelligent and articulate to me.
     Reply
    sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell promoted this comment kavitabk was starred kavitabk was unstarred
    Image of sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell
    11/18/09

    @Conrad: It's from a why? song.

    #tips
     Reply
    sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell was starred sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell was unstarred
    Image of sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell
    11/18/09

    @kavitabk: because she exists to appease the male gaze.

    #tips
     Reply
    sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell was starred sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell was unstarred
    Image of kavitabk kavitabk
    11/18/09

    @sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell: Hmm, I'm female and I have watched quite a bit of Jenna Jameson and have been appeased many times by gazing at her. And besides, so what? Why is it anyone else's business what her purpose is in doing what she is doing (or did in the past)? And do all of the models who are not porn stars in the world who also make money by being sexually alluring to men garner vitriol from you? Or is there something special about Jenna

    #tips
     Reply
    kavitabk was starred kavitabk was unstarred
    Image of Conrad Conrad
    11/18/09

    @sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell:

    a why song? "Jenna disgusts me" is a quote, because you said it. When the sentence ends, your quote ends.
     Reply
    Conrad was starred Conrad was unstarred
    Image of sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell
    11/19/09

    @Conrad: Fuck off then.

    #tips
     Reply
    sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell was starred sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell was unstarred
    Image of Conrad Conrad
    11/19/09

    @sydbarrettsaves, emissary of hell: Well that's just rude.

    #tips
     Reply
    Conrad was starred Conrad was unstarred
    Image of Pizza!Pizza!Pizza! Pizza!Pizza!Pizza!
    11/18/09

    In reply to Oprah Discovers Porn, Jenna Jameson
    I'm going to just come right out and say it. How embarrassing for Jameson. I mean, 'foy-ER'? Really?
     Reply
    Pizza!Pizza!Pizza! was starred Pizza!Pizza!Pizza! was unstarred
    Image of Penny Penny
    11/18/09

    In reply to Oprah Discovers Porn, Jenna Jameson
    I haven't watched these clips. But I've gotten off on porn.

    I don't really feel free to judge.

    I've also always kind of liked Jameson. I also like Megan Fox.

    So sue me. #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    Penny was starred Penny was unstarred
    Image of Tracie Tracie
    11/18/09

    @Penny: i like megan fox too! i think she's funny. she talks about farts and poop!
     Reply
    Tracie was starred Tracie was unstarred
    Image of Pizza!Pizza!Pizza! Pizza!Pizza!Pizza!
    11/17/09

    In reply to Oprah Discovers Porn, Jenna Jameson
    I didn't catch the whole episode, but was it even suggested that not all women who like porn need to watch it? That Harlequin has been booming despite the recession? That the majority of slash fanfic readers and writers are women? No? We need to watch the same old blond T&A? Yawn. #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    Pizza!Pizza!Pizza! was starred Pizza!Pizza!Pizza! was unstarred
    Image of Awestruck Awestruck
    11/18/09

    @Pizza!Pizza!Pizza!: Yes. That was suggested. At length. By two women. #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    Pizza!Pizza!Pizza! promoted this comment Awestruck was starred Awestruck was unstarred
    Image of Pizza!Pizza!Pizza! Pizza!Pizza!Pizza!
    11/18/09

    @Awestruck: Was one of them the Skype woman? I flipped on those segments. Women like sex shops, wheeee.
     Reply
    Pizza!Pizza!Pizza! was starred Pizza!Pizza!Pizza! was unstarred
    Image of Eric Northman is mine Eric Northman is mine
    11/17/09

    In reply to Oprah Discovers Porn, Jenna Jameson
    Hmmm, i just read the synopsis of the show on her website and it seems the show was about wow, women watch porn too/enjoy it. Did anyone think otherwise? I mean guys get stereotyped for liking/getting off on porn more but that doesn't mean women like it any less.

    Also wow, Oprah just straight up asked how many guys she'd slept with in that first clip. #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    Eric Northman is mine was starred Eric Northman is mine was unstarred
    Image of CraftyBroad CraftyBroad
    11/17/09

    @Eric Northman is mine: Oprah comes across as being very puritanical in her views on sex in general. Every time they have a sex show she seems very out of touch, but the funniest thing I've ever seen on her show was a couple of seasons back when one of her guests, Gina Davis, had to explain what Astroglide was. She had never heard of it and didn't know why someone would need it. I roared it was really funny. #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    Eric Northman is mine promoted this comment CraftyBroad was starred CraftyBroad was unstarred
    Image of tilly76 tilly76
    11/18/09

    @Eric Northman is mine: Where, exactly, are these girls who like porn? I've never met one.
     Reply
    Eric Northman is mine promoted this comment tilly76 was starred tilly76 was unstarred
    Image of Alohamaid Alohamaid
    11/18/09

    @tilly76: right here, and I know several other woman who enjoy porn
     Reply
    Eric Northman is mine promoted this comment Alohamaid was starred Alohamaid was unstarred
    Image of Eric Northman is mine Eric Northman is mine
    11/18/09

    @tilly76: Yeah, I'm sure the women you've met are reflective of every woman in America. Have you read this thread? Yeah, speak for yourself.
     Reply
    Eric Northman is mine was starred Eric Northman is mine was unstarred
    Image of Tchotchke Tchotchke
    11/17/09

    In reply to Oprah Discovers Porn, Jenna Jameson
    I was hoping we would discuss this! I saw this episode today because I was home sick. So, a few thoughts:

    Has Oprah always been such a prudish, sanctimonious jerk? I'm not exactly a huge fan of porn, but there wasn't a single question that Oprah directed at her guests that wasn't dripping with judgement and distaste. I would same the same for Lisa's comments as well. That they were acting like it is surprising that women, as opposed to men, would be interested in porn or sex toys really bothered me.

    I've never seen any of Jenna's films, but I'm always surprised that people seem taken aback by her graciousness and intelligence. She came across as thoughtful and articulate. #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    Tchotchke was starred Tchotchke was unstarred
    Image of pileofmonkeys pileofmonkeys
    11/17/09

    @Tchotchke: Yeah, I was surprised with the attitude from Oprah. Lisa Ling wasn't quite as bad; I think I might be uncomfortable on a porn set, too, especially if I were on camera myself (not in the porn, but doing the interview, oh, jeez, you know what I mean). The via satellite guests were engaging and well-spoken, and Oprah was just emanating a sanctimonious, condescending superior attitude. #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    Tchotchke promoted this comment pileofmonkeys was starred pileofmonkeys was unstarred
    Image of SomeAuthorGirl SomeAuthorGirl
    11/17/09

    @Tchotchke: I thought she came across as disingenuous, and honestly I don't know which is more annoying; actually credulous and sanctimonious, or pretense.

    Jenna seemed like a nice lady to me also. Her kids can play with mine any time.

    I have mixed emotions about Oprah overall. On one hand, I would have lunch with her, I admire her in many ways, blah blah. On the other, I hate her show and 85% of every audience member I see. So. #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    SomeAuthorGirl was starred SomeAuthorGirl was unstarred
    Image of Tchotchke Tchotchke
    11/17/09

    @pileofmonkeys: Oh yeah, I agree that it would be uncomfortable on a porn set. I was referring more to her comments from inside the studio. There were a few times where the camera caught her making faces while Jenna spoke and she was generally a bit holier-than-thou. At the worst, it was judgmental and at best, it was rude. #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    Tchotchke was starred Tchotchke was unstarred
    Image of Tchotchke Tchotchke
    11/17/09

    @SomeAuthorGirl: Completely.

    I admire Oprah's business sense and her philanthropy, but my distain for her, her self-righteousness and narcissism is well-documented.

    A huge part of the problem with her show, in my opinion, is that she caters to a very particular audience. Her audience--judging by the time slot, the material, and the editing--is comprised of middle-aged housewives, which in and of itself is not a bad thing by any means. She has, however, further narrowed her target audience by catering to the types of women who probably have children and have alarmist tendencies with respect to things like: rainbow parties, tweens using heroin, and sexting.

    As such, so many of her episodes are dedicated to warning parents about impending threats to their 10 year olds, and with it, a judgmental attitude. Even shows that focus on other topics, still bear the marks of her sanctimony. I find it extra annoying (and cynical) when you stop to consider that Oprah herself is light years away from her audience in that respect. #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    Tchotchke was starred Tchotchke was unstarred
    Image of SomeAuthorGirl SomeAuthorGirl
    11/17/09

    @Tchotchke: YES, exactly. I believe Oprah to be an open-minded, worldly person with good intentions towards which she throws her considerable means. Yet her show preys upon the fears of the narrow-minded and suspicious, thereby spreading it.

    So basically, I agree with you because you read my mind. #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    SomeAuthorGirl was starred SomeAuthorGirl was unstarred
    Image of Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC
    11/17/09

    @Tchotchke: Wow. Um, I didn't really catch any of the sanctimony. I think she was just asking questions like she always does. I think there's this Oprah wave of backlash that people (especially Jezzies) sort of like to ride, moreso now than ever. I mean, I've heard Oprah say things that really put me off, but this really wasn't one of those times. I think people just don't like her, so they find a way to project all of these thoughts and feelings onto her that really may not be there. I mean, is she supposed to whip out her personal dildo, so that she appears less judgmental (which would be funny, but also wholly unrealistic considering her demographic). #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC was starred Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC was unstarred
    Image of Tchotchke Tchotchke
    11/17/09

    @SomeAuthorGirl: Years and years ago, before she was "*OPRAH!*" Oprah used to have a small show on a local station in Baltimore. At the time, my aunt was living in Baltimore and used to see her on the train with considerable regularity. One day, she sat next to her and the two wound up talking. According to my aunt, Oprah spent about 40 minutes talking about how she "was going to be bigger than Donohue" and cover topics that would appeal to suburban moms.

    So, in short, she has always been calculating--and full of herself. #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    Tchotchke was starred Tchotchke was unstarred
    Image of getitgurl_88 getitgurl_88
    11/17/09

    @Tchotchke: That's what I've always thought of her. That's why I don't like her. She's always seemed like she was overly judgemental of her guests (and I"m talking about everyone here) and seemed just holier than thou about everything that she says. Reminds me of martha stewart. I've never gotten the Oprah love, well ok I get the love for "oprah the community organizer" but not "oprah the person" because she's kind of a jerk. #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    SomeAuthorGirl promoted this comment getitgurl_88 was starred getitgurl_88 was unstarred
    Image of pileofmonkeys pileofmonkeys
    11/17/09

    @Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC: This is maybe the second or third episode I've ever seen of Oprah's show, and the way that she handled the subject seemed... disdainful (if that's a word) at best. Her facial expressions, the way that she phrased questions, the actual questions she asked- all those things added up to giving the impression that she was being judgmental. I have no real opinion on Oprah other than knowing she has a shit ton of money, and she did an expose on puppy mills not that far back (which was the only other episode I've seen, and I thought it was handled well), so it was her attitude, not mine, that led to my conclusion that she was being sanctimonious. #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC promoted this comment pileofmonkeys was starred pileofmonkeys was unstarred
    Image of SomeAuthorGirl SomeAuthorGirl
    11/17/09

    @Tchotchke: Wow. And ew! #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    SomeAuthorGirl was starred SomeAuthorGirl was unstarred
    Image of tiredfairy tiredfairy
    11/17/09

    @Tchotchke: Me too. I've actually met Jameson (publishing, as opposed to porn, related) in person and she's incredibly sweet and very generous with her time to her fans.

    I've seen a few of her porn movies, and overall they're very women positive. They're still porn, but clearly intended for both men and women to enjoy. She has one that's basically a fantasy movie spoof, where it sort of mixes themes from Labyrinth, Legend, and some others all together. I tend to watch porn out of amused curiosity, but I have a low tolerance for the really hardcore/misogynistic stuff (it's possible for porn not to be those things).

    She actually did a lot to change women's ability to have more control over their image in that industry, as well as set procedures, and a bunch of really important shifts in who gets paid for the work.

    I get tired of the attitude that it's so weird that many women like pornography. Human beings are visual creatures and I think there's a touch of the voyeur in most people. It really doesn't have to be degrading, and even though it inevitably has objectification involved, that can be handled in a way that's doesn't dehumanize.

    I like the fact that Jameson has not, to my knowledge, ever seemed ashamed of being in porn. People don't realize she's also an incredibly astute business woman. She's worth many millions of dollars because of some very smart decisions she made, in particular getting involved in the online aspect of the industry pretty early on.

    That said, she has expressed distaste with the current state of the industry. She had some negative things to save a few years ago at the AVN's about the shift in attitudes and such. #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    tiredfairy was starred tiredfairy was unstarred
    Image of SomeAuthorGirl SomeAuthorGirl
    11/17/09

    @getitgurl_88: Except Martha *is* holier than us. #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    SomeAuthorGirl was starred SomeAuthorGirl was unstarred
    Image of Tchotchke Tchotchke
    11/17/09

    @getitgurl_88: The huge difference between Martha and Oprah, though, is that a woman like Martha or Anna Wintour does not pretend to be warm for their audience. Oprah does. Oprah's empire rests on her ability to relate to a certain demographic, whereas Martha comes across as icy and doesn't seem to give a shit. It's honest, and truthfully, I love me some Martha. I have no idea why, but I really do. Also, her showing up at the VMAs with Busta Rhymes as her date is awesome and hilarious. #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    Tchotchke was starred Tchotchke was unstarred
    Image of Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC
    11/17/09

    @pileofmonkeys: Still ain't seeing it, but 'emkay. #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC was starred Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC was unstarred
    Image of Tchotchke Tchotchke
    11/17/09

    @SomeAuthorGirl: I really hope that you are being serious because I love, love, love Martha. I find her oddly amusing. As such, I'm hearting you for that! #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    Tchotchke was starred Tchotchke was unstarred
    Image of SomeAuthorGirl SomeAuthorGirl
    11/17/09

    @Tchotchke: Martha is my inspiration. She can do fucking anygoddamnthing, and utterly lacks pretense. #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    SomeAuthorGirl was starred SomeAuthorGirl was unstarred
    Image of tiredfairy tiredfairy
    11/17/09

    @Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC: I don't actually have any issue with Oprah, and while I don't necessarily think the disdain was as marked as other people do, Oprah is known for, at the very least, asking judgmental questions on her show. She' s not a neutral commentator on the culture. She has a perspective and she goes with it.

    I mean, it's fine if you don't see it, but it's a little unfair to say that all of these commenters are just projecting. Or that Jez hates Oprah. She's like any public figure. Some people like her, some don't. #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    tiredfairy was starred tiredfairy was unstarred
    Image of shantidevi shantidevi
    11/17/09

    @Tchotchke: I see what your saying about the "full of herself". 40 minutes of anyone talking about themselves is 37 more than enough. But "calculating"?

    I'm not sure if she is or isn't, but Oprah probably didn't get to be a ga-billionaire business woman by accident or a lucky break or two. And is that such a bad thing?

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that when people talk about Bill Gates or Ted Turner or other *male* business moguls, the effort and thought and mix of self-confidence and ruthlessness are considered assets, not liabilities. Are we treating Oprah more harshly because of her persona or her gender? #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    Tchotchke promoted this comment shantidevi was starred shantidevi was unstarred
    Image of JilliefromChile JilliefromChile
    11/17/09

    @Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC: That whole diatribe about how Oprah wouldn't want her husband to go over to Jenna's house was pretty bad. "You brazen Harlot wilt steal the husbands of Decent Ladies" #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC promoted this comment JilliefromChile was starred JilliefromChile was unstarred
    Image of october271986 october271986
    11/17/09

    @Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC: Agreed! You can't be a cool, hip blog poster if you like Oprah. This woman made it on her own - not based on her weight or looks or connections but through smarts and hard work but let's not praise that. Let's praise the skinny blond woman who sucked dick for a living because she's nice.

    No one sees the irony there? #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC promoted this comment october271986 was starred october271986 was unstarred
    Image of Tchotchke Tchotchke
    11/17/09

    @shantidevi: Well, first of all, I would say the exact same thing about Bill Gates or Ted Turner, if I had the information to back it up. Secondly, the anecdote about the train had nothing to do with slamming her for being ambitious or a smart business woman. I have already stated in a comment above that I respect her business acumen and her drive--because I do. I am entitled, however to find things about her annoying or worthy of critique. As SomeAuthorGirl and I were discussing above, the thing that hits me the wrong way is the manner in which she seems to pander to a certain demographic.

    The issue with the train story is that she approached a complete stranger, engaged her and then prattled on for 40 minutes about how amazing she is. Regardless of who the person is, or what circumstances they came from, it is obnoxious behavior. And if watching countless episodes of her show (as I have) and read her magazine, has led me to the conclusion that she's a bit of an egomaniac and holier-than-thou, it is only logical to buttress that conclusion with past experiences. #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    Tchotchke was starred Tchotchke was unstarred
    Image of Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC
    11/17/09

    @JilliefromChile: Sounded like a joke to me. #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC was starred Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC was unstarred
    Image of Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC
    11/17/09

    @SomeAuthorGirl: Strangely, I feel about Martha the way many of the Jezzies on this thread seem to feel about Oprah. I find her pretentious and unrelatable; there's never been a time when Martha has done or said anything that spoke to my experiences. It's funny. I guess it's all about perspective. I think it would be an interesting conversation to discuss the Martha and Oprah effect. Essentially, they're one another's doppelganger; self-made women who head up major media empires. We can discuss why there's so much vitriol for one and not the other. #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC was starred Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC was unstarred
    Image of Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC
    11/17/09

    @tiredfairy: Please feel free to read any post that's even remotely related to Oprah and see how quickly the claws come out. There's an extra heaping-helping of vitriol reserved for this woman. And it's not unfair for me to say this when it happens ALL of the time. I'm not saying people have to like her (I'm not even that in love with her myself). But damn. It gets so old.s And I don't know if there is such a thing as a "neutral commentator" or if you could find a person with an interviewing style that would pleases everyone. #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC was starred Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC was unstarred
    Image of Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC
    11/17/09

    @october271986: Stop, THIEF!!!You've stolen the words from my mouth. #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC was starred Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC was unstarred
    Image of shantidevi shantidevi
    11/18/09

    @Tchotchke: Whoa, I think you misread my comment. I was *agreeing* with you that prattling on for 40 minutes about oneself is obnoxious/egomaniac and whatever else.

    My comment wasn't a personal attack, it was a broader observation and discussion starter about how we, as a culture, tend to see ambition in women. #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    shantidevi was starred shantidevi was unstarred
    Image of yearofthewoman yearofthewoman
    11/18/09

    @tiredfairy:

    Who the heck IS a neural commentator on culture? #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    tiredfairy promoted this comment yearofthewoman was starred yearofthewoman was unstarred
    Image of tiredfairy tiredfairy
    11/18/09

    @Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC: I have, actually. And I have read the negative posts. It's just that I've rarely seen any thread about her be all negative or all positive. Some people, yes, but m0st of them have been pretty even keeled.

    I agree that sometimes the critiques rely on personality stuff, rather than issues with her approach, or the limited view she sometimes presents. But otherwise I've never seen an all-hate Oprah thread.

    And that was really my point about the "neutral commenter" part. She's not a reporter, she's not a journalist, she's a talk show host. So she has a perspective, and a lot of what she "sells" is her. From the magazine to the show. When you do that, people will like it or not. I wasn't suggesting she should be neutral. I was saying that, since she isn't, people will or won't like her approach to a topic. #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    tiredfairy was starred tiredfairy was unstarred
    Image of tiredfairy tiredfairy
    11/18/09

    @yearofthewoman: Yeah, I think you missed my point. I wasn't saying she -should- be. I was saying that, since she's not a journalist, but a talk show host, she's not neutral. And Oprah is very much a personality and brand. Part of what she "sells" is her and her personality. Which means people may or may not like her and her approach to different topics. That's it. I'm not saying it's right or wrong.

    I have absolutely no idea what else you may have inferred from my comment. I may like Oprah more than say, Bill O'Reilly, but they're doing largely the same thing. Presenting ideas and issues through their lens. Oprah is way more altruistic, I think, but it's still why people may or may not like the approach.

    Overally, I personally like her. I get a little tired of the Hollywood love fests, but I think she's done a lot of really good things. #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    tiredfairy was starred tiredfairy was unstarred
    Image of yearofthewoman yearofthewoman
    11/18/09

    @tiredfairy:

    Make your point clearer then.

    And what's with the 20 line tract when I asked you a one-line question? I don't care if you like Oprah or not.

    To say that people don't like Oprah because she is not a neutral commentator is redundant and absurd. It is both of these things because NOONE - no journalist, no talk show host, no newsreader could claim to be neutral. That is why I asked: Who is a neutral commentator on culture? #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    yearofthewoman was starred yearofthewoman was unstarred
    Image of tiredfairy tiredfairy
    11/18/09

    @yearofthewoman: Okay, now you're just being rude and confrontational for no real reason. I like to explain my position because I think context is important on the internet. No tone of voice and people easily misread things. Much like you did. So I clarified. I suppose it's easier to just be reactionary and unpleasant, though.

    I mean, are you looking to discuss things, or just attack anyone who doesn't immediately agree with you?

    I was explaining why some people may or may not like Oprah's approach. Because that seemed to be an issue of contention. She has a perspective and style of commenting/addressing an issue. Some people respond, some don't. Your question suggested that you may have found that unclear.

    I don't see what the point of your question really is, though. I realize there really aren't any neutral commenters on culture...the closest you get are those that present all "sides" of an issue without editorializing or telling their audience what view they should have. That's pretty much it.

    But, you know, feel free to respond rudely again or criticize the fact that I actually take the time to explain my position instead of just flipping out on random internet people. #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    tiredfairy was starred tiredfairy was unstarred
    Image of SomeAuthorGirl SomeAuthorGirl
    11/18/09

    @Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC: See, for me, I admire both women immensely as self-made businesswomen. I don't aspire to anything nearly as grand as what they've achieved, but as a young woman who started out with nothing and made something, they are just... I don't know, goddesses in my personal pantheon, I suppose.

    I think there's a way there is always vitriol for women in power, and it needs to continue to be examined. For *people* in power to be sure, but there is that special brand in society and media that is absolutely reserved for women. Women that take no crap, take no prisoners, and make no apologies.

    Admittedly, I do despise the sanctimoniousness that Oprah affects; that said, I despise that in anyone and believe that everyone short of Jesus and Buddha lives in a damn glass house.
     Reply
    SomeAuthorGirl was starred SomeAuthorGirl was unstarred
    Image of yearofthewoman yearofthewoman
    11/18/09

    @tiredfairy: It seems that you take things really personally and deliver long tracts so that the other person cannot find an inroad and disagree with you, or if they do they are rude etc.

    If you can't see the point of the question - then why did you answer?

    And you weren't even disagreeing with me (I don't think), and even if you were - who cares? I asked you a question and you deliver a manifesto. Stop making assumptions about what the person who responds to you is saying and just get to your point.
     Reply
    Edited by yearofthewoman at 11/18/09 11:20 AM yearofthewoman was starred yearofthewoman was unstarred
    Image of whynotshesaid whynotshesaid
    11/18/09

    @Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC: Am I the only Jezebelle who loves both women? I don't always care for the products of their respective empires, but I respect the hell out of both of them.
     Reply
    whynotshesaid was starred whynotshesaid was unstarred
    Image of Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC
    11/18/09

    @whynotshesaid: I think that's just fine ;)
     Reply
    Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC was starred Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC was unstarred
    Image of tiredfairy tiredfairy
    11/18/09

    @yearofthewoman: Wow. So, you can accuse me (twice) of trying to "deliver long tracts so that the other person cannot find an inroad and disagree" with me...but I'm not allowed to find that confrontational. I'm not sure I'm the one making assumptions.

    Your general issue seems to have less to do with the content of what I say, and more with the length. I'm not going to apologize for putting thought and consideration into my answers. I respect other posters enough to try and find common ground and if it takes a longer post, so be it. Your issues with my commenting style are not my problem.

    But I'm done trying to engage in any reasonable discourse with you. You're clearly not interested. It's too bad. There was potential to discuss the possibility of neutral culture commentary once we got past this...but I guess you'd rather accuse me of writing manifesto's and not consider the tone with which you write. Fair enough.
     Reply
    Edited by tiredfairy at 11/18/09 4:29 PM tiredfairy was starred tiredfairy was unstarred
    Image of BetteD BetteD
    11/17/09

    In reply to Oprah Discovers Porn, Jenna Jameson
    Is it me or has O started re-treading Tyra episodes? Damn. I think betwixt this and the Palin bs, I've lost any shred of interest in her show. #jennajamesonoprah
     Reply
    BetteD was starred BetteD was unstarred
    Image of Kilotwat Kilotwat
    11/16/09

    In reply to Even Wild Horses Need Their Girlfriends • Fire Turns Irwin Land Into An "Animal Graveyard"
    A quibble with the above write-up

    For the first time in decades, the U.S. skating team has no clear-cut Olympic medal contender.

    While that is painfully true in the ladies skating, there are other disciplines in figure skating, too. The US currently boasts the reigning world champion in men's figure skating (Evan Lysacek) and the reigning silver medalists in ice dancing (Belbin and Agosto). They've been performing well this season, too: all three just won Skate America in their respective fields. We'll see Ol' Glory hoisted over that icy podium yet. #horses
     Reply
    Kilotwat was starred Kilotwat was unstarred
    Image of Kilotwat Kilotwat
    11/16/09

    In reply to Even Wild Horses Need Their Girlfriends • Fire Turns Irwin Land Into An "Animal Graveyard"

    There's Kim Yu Na of South Korea, the woman who's a good bet to win the Olympic gold. She's skating to a medley of James Bond music for her short program. #horses
     Reply
    Kilotwat was starred Kilotwat was unstarred
    Image of La Chica Lucy La Chica Lucy
    11/16/09

    In reply to Even Wild Horses Need Their Girlfriends • Fire Turns Irwin Land Into An "Animal Graveyard"
    I was hoping Jezebel would post that coat hanger link! #horses
     Reply
    La Chica Lucy was starred La Chica Lucy was unstarred
    Image of J.D.Regent J.D.Regent
    11/16/09

    In reply to Even Wild Horses Need Their Girlfriends • Fire Turns Irwin Land Into An "Animal Graveyard"
    am I reading that British sex ed article wrong? It seems like it says their approaches DID work? #horses
     Reply
    J.D.Regent was starred J.D.Regent was unstarred
    Image of Kivrin Kivrin
    11/16/09

    @J.D.Regent: That article appears to be saying two different things. I am totally confused. #horses
     Reply
    Kivrin was starred Kivrin was unstarred
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