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Pope Still Hates Condoms, People Still Mad At Pope
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NotChoinski
04/22/09

In reply to Pope Still Hates Condoms, People Still Mad At Pope
test

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pax
03/18/09

In reply to Pope Still Hates Condoms, People Still Mad At Pope
Pope-man is right: encouraging people to use condoms IS doctrinally unsound. In the Catholic Church, sex before and outside of marriage is verboten, period. So passing out condoms is indeed unsound--here, have all the sex you want, just use these condoms! It's inconsistent with Catholic doctrine on the subject.

Is the doctrine unrealistic? Yes. Is discouraging condom distribution, practically speaking, probably going to INCREASE rates of HIV and other STDs? Yes. So is it stupid at best and genocidal at worst for Pope-man to be saying this stuff? Yes.

But not doctrinally unsound.
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Brigit
03/18/09

In reply to Pope Still Hates Condoms, People Still Mad At Pope
Wow, you married bitches that use condoms are now like, total sluts!

/sarcasm
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LaComtesse
03/18/09

@Brigit: i do anything i think will make jesus and the pope cry
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maude_flanders
03/18/09

In reply to Pope Still Hates Condoms, People Still Mad At Pope
Let me just say--I will not defend him, b/c what he's saying is indefensible...words cannot describe how bitter this sort of bullshit is for me. "Lapsed Catholic" doesn't cover it.

Unfortunately contraception (at least HERE, in the U.S.) make people more permissive towards premarital sex...for some. Though you could argue that there's a world of difference between out-of-wedlock birth rates and "unplanned-for/unwanted children" (those born to couples BEFORE the Pill became prevalent, and whose parents got shotgun weddings and raised 7 kids on one shitty salary.)

Not everyone (unfortunately) utilizes this wonderful gift of is conscious of the consequences of sex (disease...children...whatever) even when they have relatively easy access to it (condoms, if not birth control).

In Uganda, education, abstinence, monogamy, and THEN condoms "as a last resort" seems to have helped decrease infection rates.

I think it has to be both. Condoms are useless with conscientiousness, consistent usage, and yes, other forms of prevention...most of which have to due with gender parity in the bedroom and everyone else.

He's full of shit and something tells me he's not going to bother to explain himself because he speaks from dogma. That's all well and good, but when he tries to crush science and rationally-based, humane policy with it...fuck him. Fuck every institution that upholds ideology over substantive harm in the here-and-now.
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Laulau
03/18/09

@maude_flanders: I just don't think that's true re: premarital sex. Viz that town in Texas that MTV profiled, where like half of the kids had the same STD because of unsafe sex. Or my grandmother, whose (wonderful) marriage was hastened along by the impending arrival of my eldest aunt. Or her sister, whose own (wonderful) marriage was a response to their eldest son. I think a lot of this "oh noes! the kids are having sex!" response is occasioned by the fact that people used to talk less about sex, not that being able to do it safely means people are doing it more. I think it's pretty clear people are not that rational about their sexual choices.
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Pizza!Pizza!Pizza!
03/18/09

In reply to Pope Still Hates Condoms, People Still Mad At Pope
Nothing says pro-life like helping people get AIDS.

As with encouraging poor people to have tons of kids they can't keep, making sure there are plenty of AIDS orphans to go around ensures a ton of rape-able kids with little to no pesky parental concern.

Yeah, I said it.
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Eeva
03/18/09

@HeatherNumber1: Well, you shouldn't have.
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dj_chick
03/18/09

In reply to Pope Still Hates Condoms, People Still Mad At Pope
As a non-Catholic, I'm curious... how much stock do Catholics put into his opinions?
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Laulau
03/18/09

@dj_chick: Working with many Catholics for the better part of a decade now, my totally anecdotal impression is: 15% take it deathly seriously and follow every word, 45% think it's the truth and just feel really guilty about failing in various respects, and 40$ feel free to add some personal interpretation. But I'd be interested how others would tally the numbers.
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emilyanne
03/18/09

@dj_chick: personally absolutely none. The doctrine of papal infallibility was only declared in 1870 and I think it's crazy to think that this man's pronouncement's speak for everyone. Admittedly there are those who would disagree but I was raised a pretty secular Catholic in that abortion, stem cell research, condom use, sex outside marriage etc etc were all pretty taken as good things and things the church had no business talking about.
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Laulau
03/18/09

@emilyanne: And actually, the pope is only infallible when he speaks ex cathedra, which I think has only have 3-5 times in history. Nonetheless, I get the impression that technically it's supposed to be like civil law - the law may not always be quite right, but you're generally still supposed to follow it. (To give a parallel with which I don't precisely agree, like U.S. drug laws, or U.S. restrictions on visiting Cuba.)
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TheFormerJuneBronson
03/18/09

@dj_chick: Myself? Absolutely none. The Church only ever had the possibility of eternal damnation on its side anyhow, and far fewer people seriously believe in that than used to. There are still some people wandering around saying that if you don't believe in the infallibility of the Pope, you can't be Catholic, but I'm Catholic until he excommunicates me, and I don't see that happening anytime soon. The Catholic Church is not led by the most self-sacrificing people ever, but we really don't get to pick who that is, so why should I care what they think of me?
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TrixieCanary
03/18/09

@Laulau: And actually, the pope is only infallible when he speaks ex cathedra, which I think has only have 3-5 times in history.

True, but that's some serious theological studying you've done. We were taught that the pope speaks for God, always, and is therefore always infallible.
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LaComtesse
03/18/09

@dj_chick: Coming from a Catholic background, it's my understanding that most don't *actually* think he's infallible or do ONLY as he says, but many of those same people probably claim allegiance to him. (Like transubstantiation: most don't believe crackers and wine turn into flesh and blood, but you're supposed to.)
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Laulau
03/18/09

@TrixieCanary: Ha, my Catholic colleagues would be astonished to learn my atheist self absorbed so much over the years. You should have seen the look on the face of another non-Catholic woman when I explained transubstantiation to her.
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dj_chick
03/18/09

@TrixieCanary: ex cathedra? what is that? (wow, i'm so getting schooled on catholicism. nice!)
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Laulau
03/18/09

@dj_chick: It just means that if the pope solemnly swears that he really means it this time/his decree is based on some sort of divine revelation, that he's infallible. It's been used to constate Mary's conception as immaculate, though not much else.

Also, I apologize for all grammar/spelling mistakes today. Between this and the Portia diRossi thread, I've been kind of worked up.
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victoriasauce
03/18/09

In reply to Pope Still Hates Condoms, People Still Mad At Pope
Condoms encourage promiscuity? So, like, if we eliminated condoms then promiscuity would cease to exist?

Or - crazy idea alert - people would continue to have sex but be less protected!
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LaComtesse
03/18/09

@victoriasauce: Of course they do! Just like seatbelts encourage car crashes! DUH!
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TheFormerJuneBronson
03/18/09

In reply to Pope Still Hates Condoms, People Still Mad At Pope
I really do wish someone would publicly re-characterize this as passive genocide, because that's exactly what it is.
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sarah.of.a.lesser.god (aka Mrs. BrutallyHonestHobbit)
03/18/09

@TheFormerJuneBronson: Notice how he framed his comment about about not using condoms to prevent the spread of AIDS in Africa? I sure as hell do.
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TheFormerJuneBronson
03/18/09

@sarah.of.a.lesser.god (aka Mrs. BrutallyHonestHobbit): Well, exactly. Am I really supposed to believe that someone who can be anti-Semitic can't also be a racist? Or, race aside, that he doesn't just plain think it's better for people to be punished for having sex? It doesn't matter; if he and everyone else didn't obfuscate about this, there would be rioting. But too many people are too willing to take him at his word.
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Maritsa
03/18/09

@TheFormerJuneBronson:I'm not even sure it's passive. Spreading misinformation and thereby sacrificing lives for doctrine?

Also, on a lighter note: Kevin De Cock, director of the World Health Organisation's HIV/AIDS department Srsly? Awesome.
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battleaxonista...is a humorless bitch
03/18/09

In reply to Pope Still Hates Condoms, People Still Mad At Pope
Yes, because no one ever had out-of-wedlock sex, affairs, illegitimate children, etc etc before the creation of condoms. I see what you did there.
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Big_Noise_From_Winnetka
03/18/09

In reply to Pope Still Hates Condoms, People Still Mad At Pope
"condoms encourage promiscuity and thus contribute to the spread of HIV"

silly me. i thought condoms prevented the spread of HIV. yet all along, they encourage promiscuity. i'm headed to condom sense to buy me some promiscuity tools! wanna come with?

*joins kivrin in some head/desk bashing*
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Benevolent_Dictatrix (patently absurd)
03/18/09

@Big_Noise_From_Winnetka: Yeah, if I start handing out condoms to hot guys on the street will it encourage them to be promiscuous with ME? How can I harness this power to my own benefit?
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Samanthrax
03/18/09

In reply to Pope Still Hates Condoms, People Still Mad At Pope
In words similiar to those of the wise Lewis Black....

Ummmmm... what fucking doctrine, where?
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exelizabeth
03/18/09

In reply to Pope Still Hates Condoms, People Still Mad At Pope
The only way this guy would make sense is if he were Pope Opposite.
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Eric Northman is mine
03/18/09

In reply to Pope Still Hates Condoms, People Still Mad At Pope
It's a terrible thing he said because it furthers the idea that AIDS is a punishment for sin but how about babies born with aids, people infected during blood transmissions, spouses/partners that infected each other. Regardless of what anyone has done or their choices/lifestyle, NO ONE deserves AIDS. It's like saying drunk women/women who dress provocatively deserve to be assaulted, how preposterous!!!!!!!
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sarah.of.a.lesser.god (aka Mrs. BrutallyHonestHobbit)
03/18/09

@Sookie Stackhouse: Want your blood to keep boiling?

[coloradoindependent.com]

[coloradoindependent.com]
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Benevolent_Dictatrix (patently absurd)
03/18/09

@sarah.of.a.lesser.god (aka Mrs. BrutallyHonestHobbit): Oh Lord, I am from Colorado and I know what's behind those links without clicking.

DO NOT CLICK unless you are in a place that's appropriate for a HULK SMASH rampage.
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Eric Northman is mine
03/18/09

@sarah.of.a.lesser.god (aka Mrs. BrutallyHonestHobbit): are you trying to raise my blood pressure to a ridiculous level because if so mission accomplished. That senator is a moron!!!!!
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pandorasmittens
03/18/09

In reply to Pope Still Hates Condoms, People Still Mad At Pope
In His Holiness's honor, I shall prepare Eggs Benedict by using a female condom to poach my eggs.
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sisepuede is the femmiest femme of them all
03/18/09

@pandorasmittens: cotd :)
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JinxyMcDeath
03/18/09

In reply to Pope Still Hates Condoms, People Still Mad At Pope
Hmmm, typically the issue is not whether one has sex or not...it's whether one is going to use a condom or not.

But since the Pope has never been in this situation, I imagine he's just making this up as he goes.
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LaComtesse
03/18/09

@JinxyMcDeath: i'm actually guessing a huge chunk of the priesthood is NOT virginal. I mean, you're not BORN a priest. You're probably not a priest as a teenager. Odds are, most of these guys have probably had sex before taking their vows.
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Hana Maru
03/18/09

@LaComtesse: A lot of priests don't abstain after they've taken their vows, either...
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