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WashingMyHair
12:57 PM

In reply to Wimpy, Wimpy Wimpy: Democrats Are Dithering On Issue Of Abortion
So abortion services in this bill should be restricted due to some moral stance against funding them with their tax dollars? What about my moral stance in NOT funding wars that we were mislead into, or abstinence only programs? Hypocrisy, anyone?
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Edited by WashingMyHair at 11/12/09 12:58 PM WashingMyHair was starred WashingMyHair was unstarred

tiredfairy
12:46 PM

In reply to Wimpy, Wimpy Wimpy: Democrats Are Dithering On Issue Of Abortion
What's been infuriating to me is all the people who think this is an acceptable loss, or who actually believe that moral outrage trumps women's rights.

A lot of people are refusing to actually look at this amendment for what it is, and instead concentrate on the notion that public funds shouldn't go to anything the public doesn't (by a majority, apparently) agree with. Which is all well and good until you realize that's insane. If this amendment was about refusing to cover heart surgery because half the people don't agree with organ transplants on a moral level, I doubt anyone would think that was acceptable.

This is about abortion. It's not about how public funds should be used or the acceptable role of government or whether tax money should go to things we personally don't like. It's about finding whatever way they can to chip away at choice. And in this case, effectively doing away with it for anyone who doesn't have means. It might as well be the Poor Women Don't Get to Have Choice Amendment.

This effectively says we will cut funding, and therefore access, to a legal medical procedure if enough people don't think you should have it on personal moral grounds. That should be terrifying.

We should be deeply worried about anything like this, especially when it's a redundancy (Hyde already severely restricts federal funding of abortion). Like the 'Partial birth" abortion ban, these things are not done in a vacuum.

This healthcare plan is not so incredibly awesome that it's worth throwing poor women's personhood and uteruses under the bus. #abortion
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Jack_Burton
11:41 AM

In reply to Wimpy, Wimpy Wimpy: Democrats Are Dithering On Issue Of Abortion
Fundies: You know the County/State Hospital down the street that your taxes fund? They perform abortions. Why? Because they are legal, necessary medical procedures. Get out of the fucking stone age. There's much more at stake here than your vanity about religion.

Senate Dems: Quit pandering and make good on your promises. If you fuck us on healthcare by watering-down everything relevant, we will not forget it. Cowards. #abortion
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Triana Orpheus
10:54 AM

In reply to Wimpy, Wimpy Wimpy: Democrats Are Dithering On Issue Of Abortion
The Dems in office are the equivalent of the boyfriend who cheats on you, calls you fat, flakes on you and lets his friends make fun of you. "But he says he loves me. I just can't be with anyone else." #abortion
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Ipomoea
10:48 AM

In reply to Wimpy, Wimpy Wimpy: Democrats Are Dithering On Issue Of Abortion
Sometimes, I feel like the only way Dems (or Republicans, or anyone in political power) will be able to understand why abortion is my (and many others') litmus-test, my-way-or-the-highway issue is to actually end up in a situation where they, or their significant others, or a minor they care for, needs an abortion, and, due to the amendments and laws they've let slip by in the course of "fixing the bigger problem", it is prohibitively difficult, either due to laws, geography, or finances. While I don't wish an unwanted pregnancy on anyone, I feel like the only way they'll fight for what I care about so much is if the political suddenly became their personal, intimately so. #abortion
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cantankasaurus rex
11:08 AM

@Ipomoea: the problem though, is that all of these politicians have the resources to deal with those hurdles and/or simply go somewhere where they don't exist. i wish facing an unplanned pregnancy changed the minds of everyone who experienced it, but sadly that is not the case. for those who oppose abortion rights, their case is always special.....

see this excellent article [mypage.direct.ca] #abortion
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Ipomoea
11:11 AM

@cantankasaurus rex: Oh, I know, I've read the articles about protesters yelling "BABY KILLER" one day and the next, getting an abortion, only to be back on the picket line. The cognitive disconnect is amazing. #abortion
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battleaxonista...is a humorless bitch
10:40 AM

In reply to Wimpy, Wimpy Wimpy: Democrats Are Dithering On Issue Of Abortion
The bill passed by a razor-thin margin with the Stupak amendment, without it, it may never have passed at all. Democrats and Republicans alike have staked Obama's political capital on getting universal health insurance passed. Right now he's in the equivalent of quicksand, what do you expect? You can't declare jihad on stupidity if you don't have a firm foundation.

If after the bill's passed and he's flying sky high on approval ratings and Dems are about to wipe the floor in the 2010 elections and THEN they're like 'psh abortion whatevs' I'll be pissed. I wish people would aim as much vitriol at the Americans who keep reelecting these buffons rather than at the 1/3rd of the governmental branch that promised not to be like George Bush and do whateverthefuck they please. #abortion
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WashingMyHair
10:46 AM

@battleaxonista...is a humorless bitch: What's important to understand here is that once they legislate even a sliver of our rights away, you almost never get that sliver back. So, I'm not really sure that this compromise is worth it...and I grew up without ever having health insurance, so this is a big deal to me!
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Edited by WashingMyHair at 11/12/09 10:52 AM WashingMyHair was starred WashingMyHair was unstarred

Triana Orpheus
10:49 AM

@battleaxonista...is a humorless bitch: We're not just mad that this amendment is in the bill. Democrats have been iffy on abortion rights (fuck it, women's rights in general) for a long time now and we need to get progressives in office that will secure our rights because if I can't trust a Dem to do then why even bother supporting them? #abortion
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battleaxonista...is a humorless bitch
11:19 AM

@Triana Orpheus: I support them because they're better than the other options. Help us primary the blue dogs that make it harder for Democrats to take a stand if you want a stronger party. Apathy is not a valid solution.

@WashingMyHair: If it gets the rest of America health care, to me it's worth it. Governmental funding for abortion is nearly nonexistent and there's hardly a guarantee that the amendment will stand in the final bill anyway now that Obama has expressed disapproval. I'm a pro-choice individual who only got health care 4 years ago and firmly believe this is MORE important than having the perfect feminist bill. #abortion
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tiredfairy
12:30 PM

@battleaxonista...is a humorless bitch:
I think that's short sighted, honestly. Access to choice should be a fundamental aspect of a public healthcare option for women. Hyde already limited federal funding, so not only was this redundant, but it's an active restriction of access to a legal medical procedure masquerading as a funding measure. That incredibly dangerous.

I don' t think anyone is arguing about this being the perfect feminist bill. Unless it was actually universal healthcare, that would be impossible.

But letting reproductive choice be something only those with means can afford because we let it go in the public option is irresponsible. It's precisely because poor women who can't afford healthcare also need access to this procedure that this matters so much. Otherwise we're allowing moral outrage to dictate the ability for other women to have body autonomy.

It's not worth it. #abortion
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eclare09
02:32 PM

@battleaxonista...is a humorless bitch: The larger issue is that the Dems and the Obama Administration have done a crappy job since day one of selling progressive health care reform. They set themselves up to negotiate from a position of weakness, despite the fact that they have this enormous electoral majority. Obama placed a higher premium on the "bipartisan" process than on getting an effective bill, and that's why we are currently facing this untenable position. #abortion
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battleaxonista...is a humorless bitch
02:44 PM

@eclare09: It's hardly an 'enormous electoral majority' when over 40 house 'Democrats' vote AGAINST the health care bill even with the Stupak Amendment.

If the administration had tried to muscle anything through immediately and they would have been shut down so hard by both Republicans and the media. At least the American public has had several months to watch the Republicans flail in the wind, exposing them for the party of 5 year olds they are. Public support of the bill has INCREASED as this charade has gone on, it did not start out high at all. #abortion
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WashingMyHair
10:39 AM

In reply to Wimpy, Wimpy Wimpy: Democrats Are Dithering On Issue Of Abortion
This type of shit seems to be an running trend for the Obama admin, not just congress. At least the asshole republicans will stand together, no matter what the cost! #abortion
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FrabjousDay
10:36 AM

In reply to Wimpy, Wimpy Wimpy: Democrats Are Dithering On Issue Of Abortion
As a moderate Republican (social liberal, fiscal conservative), I was wondering if anyone could tell me why Democrats (especially Pelosi) are making such a push to rush this bill through. I mean, by the time it passes, it won't be any different from the health care we already have, only that it'll be a LOT more expensive. It's like paying for a steak dinner at a fancy restaurant, and then leaving after the salad because you're in a hurry. They've had quite a while to prepare this bill, but every version they come up with is even worse than the one before. Are Democrats afraid they won't get re-elected if they don't pass this bill or what? Where is the logic?
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futuremouse
10:37 AM

@FrabjousDay: "Are Democrats afraid they won't get re-elected if they don't pass this bill?"

Yes. #abortion
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FrabjousDay
10:42 AM

@futuremouse: Do they think passing their version of the bill is going to help them get re-elected though? It's basically pissing off everyone. Liberals are unhappy that it won't cover abortion or really provide universal health care, conservatives and moderates are unhappy about how much it will cost. It's a losing situation for everyone. I guess that's what confuses me, that NO ONE likes this bill, but they think if it passes it'll somehow help them politically. #abortion
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WashingMyHair
10:51 AM

@FrabjousDay: RUSH? Really? Complaining of rushing this bill is as smokescreen for the right. They don't want a bill, even if it took 2 years to go through congress. They sure as hell didn't do anything about it when they ran things for 12 years!
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Edited by WashingMyHair at 11/12/09 10:54 AM WashingMyHair was starred WashingMyHair was unstarred

FrabjousDay
10:56 AM

@WashingMyHair: Oh, I agree they're not rushing the process, it just seems like in the time they've had, they've dithered around doing God knows what, and now they're trying to push a crappy bill through ASAP. You'd think that with a year to do this, they could have come up with a better plan. #abortion
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J.D.Regent
11:02 AM

@FrabjousDay: even as written, it does contain some major and much needed reforms though. I'll be more pissed if they pass nothing. #abortion
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TheGuvnah
11:54 AM

@FrabjousDay: well they refused to even consider single-payer, which would have been the better plan. #abortion
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BearDownCBears
01:49 PM

@TheGuvnah: I don't think they wanted to deal with providers. Insurance CEOs are easy targets, but the guy who's laid off from the hospital due to budget cuts won't be.

It would have been nice if they would have at least linked public plan to Medicare. Costs are aimed approximately at moon-trajectory right now. You can stay ahead of the cost curve with tax hikes as long as you can, but... #abortion
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Cimorene
10:22 AM

In reply to Wimpy, Wimpy Wimpy: Democrats Are Dithering On Issue Of Abortion
This always makes me think of that subplot in the West Wing where Josh was dating Mary Louise Parker, who was the head of some women's rights group. And the president farted out on abortion rights, and she cut Josh's phone line so she could start getting her shit together so she could do stuff to help preserve women's rights, and the pres got mad at Josh, and he got mad at her, and he was like, "If we don't get re-elected, you're going to end up with Republicans, and then you'll really be fucked!" And she was like, "That's your pitch? Really? Am I supposed to be happy about that, "we're not as bad as the other guys" bullshit?"

I can't remember what happens on the show, but I remember watching it and realizing just how powerless I am to actually do anything about the slow erosion of women's rights. The republicans are clearly not interested in women-as-humans, so that's not an option. But the ones who are supposed to be for abortion, pro-women-as-people, pro-women's rights, are just fucking us over. And we can't do a fucking thing about it. Don't vote for Obama? Even if you vote for a more liberal candidate, it's basically like voting for a republican. Like everyone who voted for Ralph Nader instead of John Kerry, and they were accused of letting Bush win. It's like--I don't want someone as centrist as Barack Obama as my president. He's a perpetual capitulator, he's not going to get rid of women's rights, but he's going to let women's rights disappear and get killed by those he wants to bi-partisan with. But I don't actually have a liberal, progressive option. I have crazy-fucker-conservative, or centrist. Those are my options.

Seriously if I could live in this world without being a member of a country, I would. I seriously want to give up my American citizenship in protest. But there's nowhere for me to go. #abortion
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susanstohelit
11:04 AM

@Cimorene: I know what you mean. It's all well and dandy to tell the Dems that progressives won't vote for them anymore, but what other choice do we have? Sometimes there's a progressive in the primaries, but that's rare - and even though the Dems keep screwing us over, I am genuinely terrified of just not voting and letting the Republicans win. Maybe Dems would get the message and start genuinely advocating liberal values (but probably not - they seem to think they lose because they're not moderate enough), but in the meantime we'd have Republicans in charge and they would be worse. It's so frustrating. #abortion
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WashingMyHair
11:10 AM

@susanstohelit: Then we need to start paying attention and supporting more progressive candidates in primaries. ActBlue is dedicated to just that.

[www.actblue.com] #abortion
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susanstohelit
01:06 PM

@WashingMyHair: You're absolutely right, and Act Blue is a great resource for that. #abortion
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Hana Maru
06:11 PM

@WashingMyHair: There was a truly pro-choice candidate in the primaries, who didn't believe in sacrificing women's rights for political expediency, who didn't see bipartisanship as a virtue, who had fought her whole career for women and health care.

She was winning more voters, but then the Obama/Pelosi contingent, with the DLC, awarded her delegates, and disputed delegates to Obama and forced her out of the race.

The Democratic party is not the party of women. They take us for granted year after year, as they pretend to pander to us. I'm voting Green until they stop pushing candidates like Obama over candidates with principles. #abortion
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Lymed
10:21 AM

In reply to Wimpy, Wimpy Wimpy: Democrats Are Dithering On Issue Of Abortion
The right wing has the Americans for Tax Reform and the Club for Growth that scare the shit out of any Republican that dares support a tax increase or otherwise vary from those groups ideals. Yet progressives have been too scared to hold Democrats accountable to their promises. #abortion
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activearchivist is lovely, in a moist, fluffy sort of way
10:28 AM

@Lymed: It's because they like to hang over our heads of "Well, at least we're not the other guys" to encourage support. There is a lack of other options, which basically forces those who are further left to deal with the Dems because the alternative is much worse. #abortion
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hollygirl
10:28 AM

@Lymed: Because being anti-taxes is so much less fraught than being pro-choice... #abortion
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pantsless economist...access RESTORED
10:21 AM

In reply to Wimpy, Wimpy Wimpy: Democrats Are Dithering On Issue Of Abortion
From the NY Times article: Political calculation aside, the House Democrats reinforced the principle that a minority view on the morality of abortion can determine reproductive health policy for American women.

:( #abortion
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whynotshesaid
10:12 AM

In reply to Wimpy, Wimpy Wimpy: Democrats Are Dithering On Issue Of Abortion
They say they will fight another day for a woman's right to choose.

No, they won't. They haven't for a long time.

Democrats : abortion :: Republicans : gay marriage

Both use the issue to get people riled up, but then kind of let it fall to the wayside. I don't think, for instance, that the national GOP gives a rat's ass about gay marriage beyond that it's right up there with screenings of The Passion of the Christ when it comes to mobilizing Christian crazies en masse. A lot of Democrats seem to use abortion in much the same way.

Although, at least, Republicans are way more successful at banning gay marriage than Democrats are at securing abortion rights, so it's hardly a perfect analogy. But still, I think it fits. #abortion
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Jack_Burton
11/09/09

In reply to Democrat Or Republican, Political Women Have a Tough Road To Walk
Even though Meghan isn't the "sharpest knife in the drawer," I'd still vote for her over Palin, were they the only alternatives. Now, she's abstaining from politics, I don't lean the same way on most issues and hopefully, I would never be subject to such a scenario - but I think she has a refreshingly open mind for someone who has been so immersed in circle of Republican "royalty." She's likely not the heir to the prowess of William Buckley, but she's no Ann Coulter, either.

In many ways, I hope the Republicans (Dems, too) can be less of a platform-party and more of a party of issues; If 3rd parties can never fully realize strength in America, the next best thing, to me, would be a variety of individuals in each party that held integrity, compassion, justice, intelligence, and objectivity in high esteem.

I know... Keep dreaming. #womeninpolitics
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BearDownCBears
11/09/09

@Jack_Burton: Our system is necessarily a race to the middle, especially with the oligarchical and rurally dominant senate and the immense power o the executive. I'm hot and cold on the magnitude of the power of the exec branch, but a unicameral legislature would be much more populist and active. #womeninpolitics
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yvanehtnioj
11/09/09

In reply to Democrat Or Republican, Political Women Have a Tough Road To Walk
I have the hardest time feeling anything positive about Meghan McCain. Even when she says things halfway intelligent like this, my instant response is, "And it took you how many years to figure this out?"

A hyperrich white young attractive blonde woman who got an instant platform in the national media because her father is a conservative Republican Senator realizes that some women have it hard. News at 11! #womeninpolitics
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amandavmead
11/09/09

@yvanehtnioj: i think your assessment of meghan mccain is a tad judgmental. she may have gotten a pulpit through no work of her own, other than campaigning relentlessly for her father, but she is an intelligent and compassionate moderate republican. she has been attacked to no end by conservatives for her unwavering support of gay marriage and the gay community. though i may disagree with her politics for the most part, i respect that she has her own mind and her own voice, despite all of the forces trying to put her in a different box - labeled CONSERVATIVE.
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emerson.ellie
11/09/09

@yvanehtnioj: I don't know your age, but speaking from the standpoint of a 20 year old girl, it is a bit of a realization that women have to work harder than men to get half as far. We are taught in school that women have achieved equality, and it really isn't until our first foray into the "real world" that we get slapped with the reality that women have not come as far as your high school history teacher would have you believe, particularly if you come from an upper middle class background. Most of my girlfriends in college still haven't realized how much harder the workforce will be for them. I only realized it in its entirety when I took a year off between high school and college to move to New York City to work (for Hillary Clinton's campaign, no less).

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Valkyrie607
11/09/09

@emerson.ellie: I love your comment, and actually, even though I'm about 10 years older than you, I had a similar awakening upon entering the workforce. I had absorbed similar messages from school and parents about equality being a done deal.

Also, I know you may not feel like one, but please: you're 20 years old. You're a woman. Not a girl. Referring to yourself as a girl is probably unconscious, but think about how that impacts how people perceive you, and other 20-year-old women. #womeninpolitics
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yvanehtnioj
11/09/09

@emerson.ellie: But that's exactly my point. I think it's normal for people to buy into the whole "This is America, you can do whatever!" mentality until they get into the real world (although it's also very common for people that are politically aware / sensitive to see through that earlier), but the fact that she's 25 and just now getting a glimpse (emphasis on glimpse) of the real world is an example of her privilege. Most people are done with college by 21, and a huge percentage start work before that. She still doesn't have to "work" (you know, with interviews and bosses and such); her career is to be a blogger without having done any previous writing work or time in the trenches learning the craft because of who her dad is, while many talented and experienced writers are out of work due to the economy and death of print media and whatnot. I really just can't dredge up any sympathy.

@amandavmead: Nothing you just said is inconsistent with anything I said. So, um, okay? Yes I do judge her. #womeninpolitics
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bumbleleaf
11/09/09

@yvanehtnioj: I agree with emerson.ellie -- in school, many people get a sense that all these "struggles" and such are in the past, that feminism isn't in the news so much, so it must be over. I've been a feminist for a long time, and I still had a bit of a rude awakening since leaving college. (Maybe I thought it "wouldn't happen to me"?)

While MM definitely speaks from a place of (largely unexamined) privilege, you can see she's trying to leave her shelter and slowly get a grip on the world (the world world, not the world invented by the likes of Michelle Bachmann, R-Crazytown) -- even if she's not straying too far from the tent.

I think she's a ninny, but I have to admit I sort of stand behind her stated mission to reform (or at least youngify) the GOP from within. Not that I think it will work. But it's like when my parents wouldn't pull my brother out of Boy Scouts over the gay scoutmaster case, because they reasoned that if all the liberals left the BSA in protest, the organization would have no one left interested in changing its policies. #womeninpolitics
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yvanehtnioj
11/09/09

@bumbleleaf: But this is exactly my point: She's having these realizations like 5 years behind her peers because she's so. danged. privileged (which is annoying). And sure it's a somewhat natural progression to come to these realizations, but watching her interact with reality for apparently the first time ever just drives home the point that she has no business having this national platform. It's just another reminder that she hasn't earned our attention, she's inherited it.

Look, I don't hate the woman, she's not the antichrist, she's not the worst Republican of the bunch, and I hope to heaven that she can convince some of those nutjobs of basic things like "gay people deserve human rights". But I don't like her, and I find that every time she makes the news she speaks from a position of such oblivious, blind privilege that it sets my teeth on edge. #womeninpolitics
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bumbleleaf
11/09/09

@yvanehtnioj: well, yeah. hmm. You're right. #womeninpolitics
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emerson.ellie
11/09/09

@yvanehtnioj: I wouldn't say that I exactly bought into a "you can do whatever you want in America" mentality," and I resent your implying that I was not politically aware or sensitive (um, hello...I worked for Hillary Clinton beginning right after my 18th birthday). I'm simply saying this girl should be villanized for coming from a position of privilege. She certainly didn't choose it, and she seems to be trying to pop that "bubble" that you are referring to. Perhaps she is behind (although I think you are overestimating a significant portion of the population), but she's getting there. Should we begrudge her for trying?
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Valkyrie607
11/10/09

@yvanehtnioj: Yes, you judge her--accurately. #womeninpolitics
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yvanehtnioj
11/10/09

@emerson.ellie: I think resentment might be a bit of an overreaction, given that I was working from your own description that it was a surprise to discover that life was not as your high school history teacher described. But even still, I'm saying it's a common problem.

More importantly, there's nothing at all about Meghan McCain that says she's trying to pop the "bubble" of her privilege. Where did you get that idea? The way she fell ass-backward into her sinecure? Her self-appointed position as Important Republican Voice? (As much as the Rs do need better voices and serious reform, it takes a hell of a lot of chutzpah to think of yourself as the go-to person to reform one of America's two major political parties before you've ever even held down a job.) Her privilege is entirely unexamined. Realizing that there is such a thing as sexism is not the same as examining your own privilege. And yes, if you are among the most privileged people in the world and don't ever take the time to reflect on that reality or acknowledge its benefits, I will be tempted to villify you. That's the kind of attitude that allows blatant disregard for the less fortunate, and "she didn't ask to be a billionairess" doesn't negate the need for self-awareness with me.

And lastly, I was talking about entry into the real world when I said she's at least 5 years behind her cohort. We both know that there're many people who never think about sexism (though these people are very rarely women), so I surely didn't mean to imply that everyone is an informed feminist by 25. But when you factor in people that start working straight out of high school and people that work their way through community college and/or college, yes. She's very far behind her peers in re: dealing with the real world. #womeninpolitics
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FourInchHeels
11/09/09

In reply to And Now It's Time To Play Conspiracy Theory With Sarah Palin
give everyone a chance to read and debate it Nice, Sarah. That's what I say when I don't understand something and want everyone else to talk it through so I can have an opinion once all the thinking's been done for me and I don't have to create my own. Oh wait. #sarahpalin
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