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Agumen
09/30/09

In reply to Peter Fonda And Roman Polanski On Rape Vs. Murder
I'm ready to be flamed here and I'm in the grip of death-like swine flu... but here goes.

I kind of get what Fonda is saying. Guys are attracted to pubsecent girls in a way I just don't think women are to boys. Doesn't mean they should do it, but it does mean many of us think about it.

I remember being at a barbeque and this one girl walked in, and I thought, 'Wow, she's gorgeous.' I was chatting to her (innocently - it was a neighbourhood barbeque) and thought she was very shy and strange. The (girl) friend I was with comes over and says 'I see you've met 'x', she's so grown up for 14'. Mind = blown. Thought this girl was in university at the least. I had almost asked her what she was majoring in. Then she goes and sets up a game of hide-and-go-seek with the other kids, and I started feeling pretty terrible for instantly having sexual thoughts about this girl.

But you know what? I decided that guilt was bollocks. The girl had a full figure, was 5'10, and there was just no way for me to know. I'm not going to be ashamed of my sexuality. Once I knew she was a kid my course of action changed - but my sexual attraction, which I can't control, didn't.
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BlueBeard
09/30/09

@Agumen: At what point during that party did you drug and rape her then flee the country to avoid sentencing?

I'm not saying you should feel any guilt, you are describing seeing a pretty girl and making an honest mistake, I'm saying there's no real parallel.
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Pantra
09/30/09

@Agumen: a 5'10 girl with a full figure does not look "pubescent" so your argument doesn't hold. I'm curious, how old were you at the time? Most of the men I know in their 30's and 40's would not want to be branded as regularly lusting after 13 year old girls.

I was one of those "looked like a full blown woman at age 12" girls and yes, adult men hit on me a lot. However I was enough of an anomaly in my middle school that I was famous for my body. Most girls that age, no matter how precocious they were with makeup and clothes, still clearly looked too young for adult men.
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TurtleSpeak
09/30/09

In reply to Peter Fonda And Roman Polanski On Rape Vs. Murder
"If I had killed somebody, it wouldn't have had so much appeal to the press, you see? But… f-ing, you see, and the young girls. Judges want to f- young girls. Juries want to f- young girls. Everyone wants to f- young girls!"

This quote makes me feel nauseous. How young are we talking here? I mean the word "girl" implies youth already, but "young girl" makes me think of girls between the ages of, say 5 and 13. Prepubescent, ya know?
I seriously feel sick.
This is why I have avoided much of the coverage of this whole thing.
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Blueberry26
09/30/09

In reply to Peter Fonda And Roman Polanski On Rape Vs. Murder
I would rather be murdered than raped. Or raped then murdered. I just imagine living with that memory would be so so so so horrible.
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whynotshesaid promoted this comment Blueberry26 was starred Blueberry26 was unstarred

whynotshesaid
09/30/09

@Blueberry26: I can't speak for everyone, but as a rape victim, I'm perfectly happy to be alive, memories and all. It was a shitty fucking thing that happened, but with therapy, love, support and time, a person can heal. I know I have.

I'm not saying this to diminish rape at all, BTW.
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Edited by whynotshesaid at 09/30/09 4:43 PM whynotshesaid was starred whynotshesaid was unstarred

raoul j raoul
09/30/09

In reply to Peter Fonda And Roman Polanski On Rape Vs. Murder
When I was 13 I was scared to touch a girl's breast even though she wanted me too. When I was 16-17 I didn't want to fuck 13 year olds when the juniors & seniors were so hot. At 30 I thought women between 25-35 were the most appealingly confident and sexy. Now that I'm 42 I'm insulted that Polanski thinks all men are wannabe child rapists too.
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Laulau
09/30/09

In reply to Peter Fonda And Roman Polanski On Rape Vs. Murder
Sigh. It is things like this that make me paranoid about existing, as a woman, in our world. Who wants to do anything to a 13 year old, other than take her to the mall, maybe get her ears pierced?
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KATE!
09/30/09

@Laulau: I remember how uncomfortable it was as a young girl when I would be leered at by older men. I always thought they were just dirty old men, individual pervs. But Peter Fonda seems to think all men would fuck a kid if they could, and if Polanski is pardoned then it will be clear that they can.

Its officially open season on young women!
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snugletpuglet
09/30/09

In reply to Peter Fonda And Roman Polanski On Rape Vs. Murder
So, if Polanski's victim had been, oh, say a 13 year old Bridget Fonda, Peter Fonda would have been like, "Hey Roman - no big deal. Every dude loooves the young tail! By the way, thanks for not killing her!" ?
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ohjohnny
09/30/09

In reply to Peter Fonda And Roman Polanski On Rape Vs. Murder
Everyone says wouldn't you want it prosecuted if it was your daughter? And I have to ask: if it was your daughter, would you want her deposition leaked by the Santa Monica DA's office? And would you want everyone on the internet and every tv station in the world replaying the details of your daughter's rape about 7,200 times a day? And would you want your daughter's children, no matter where they go on the internet, no matter what tv channel they turn on, no matter what newspaper they read, be forced to hear everyone with "their concern" and often their Nancy Grace style concern, discussing your daughter's rape, her anal penetration, the qualuudes, the testimony of her sexual history, drug use, and alcohol use prior to age 13 , etc. Would you want your daughter in the middle of an international media circus for however long it takes to mete out justice to Polanski? Especially when she has spent 30 years putting it behind her? Does that mean her children have adjusted and put it behind them as well? And her husband? And even her mother? And for those who believe this will give courage to other rape victims? If I was a rape victim and it was a celebrity who raped me, I would soon realize that the most intimate details of my life would be leaked by somebody somewhere in some DA's office and my business would end up everywhere. And all against my will. But all for the good of the system. I don't know if I would want to go there. But at least I would know that every blog in the world would make tons of money off me, stoking outrage, posting 55 stories about it a day, -- IMPORTANT stories prompted by every asshat in the world, like Peter Fonda, who makes a diipshit comment. Or, oh my god, someone on the View said something today!!! Let's rush that to print. Seriously newsworthy.
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Haystacks
09/30/09

@ohjohnny: No, I would want my child's rapist to be treated like a criminal and sent to jail, not get off because he made good movies.
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whynotshesaid
09/30/09

@ohjohnny: It's unfortunate that this is what our society does to rape victims, isn't it?

What's even more unfortunate is that we do all of this, then still let the rapist get away without punishment. Makes it seem an awful lot like the victim is getting punished DOUBLY, huh?
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Edited by whynotshesaid at 09/30/09 4:38 PM whynotshesaid was starred whynotshesaid was unstarred

SylvanSylph
09/30/09

@ohjohnny: You'd rather let him go on to do that to 10 or 30 other people's daughters too?
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snark_shark
09/30/09

In reply to Peter Fonda And Roman Polanski On Rape Vs. Murder
I keep repeating the names of Kevin Smith, Luc Besson and Greg Grunberg as a mantra. So far, they're the only Hollywood names I've seen in support of his arrest. Sad that the list of them is shorter than the list of rapist apologizers
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Ms. Crankypants
09/30/09

@snark_shark: Kirstie Alley is also on board
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hollygirl
09/30/09

@snark_shark: I'm clining to them like a life raft right now.
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Steve_Holt
09/30/09

In reply to Peter Fonda And Roman Polanski On Rape Vs. Murder
Ok, ok, he may have raped a girl (but not rape-rape, let's not forget) BUT he makes things that I like to watch on my tv so it's not so bad.
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Jan74
09/30/09

@Steve_Holt: A big F.U. to Whoopi and the "not rape-rape" part.
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Edited by Jan74 at 09/30/09 3:25 PM Jan74 was starred Jan74 was unstarred

susanstohelit
09/30/09

In reply to Peter Fonda And Roman Polanski On Rape Vs. Murder
I suppose we should just tell rape victims from now on "well, it's not as if you were murdered, what are you complaining about". I'm sure that will make them feel much better
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thoughtthinker
09/30/09

@susanstohelit: I think that already happens.
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eclare09
09/30/09

@thoughtthinker: Hmmmm...what ever happened to "fate worse than death"? (Not that I promote that line of thinking, at all. It's just interesting how these things change according to circumstances.)
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whynotshesaid promoted this comment eclare09 was starred eclare09 was unstarred

whynotshesaid
09/30/09

@eclare09: Yeah, they do change. It seems that whatever the circumstance is, someone will come up with some reason as to why it was not that bad.
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ihateyourescalade
09/30/09

In reply to Peter Fonda And Roman Polanski On Rape Vs. Murder
"Everybody wants to F-- young girls?" Really?

Let's say the girl was 12, not 13. Still OK to F--- her?

What if she were 11? OK now?

10, 9... still OK, Roman?

Just wondering where he draws the line.
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KATE!
09/30/09

@ihateyourescalade: as long as they dont want to fuck-fuck the girl, whoopi is ok with it.
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Caenct
09/30/09

In reply to Peter Fonda And Roman Polanski On Rape Vs. Murder
RE: Polanski's Brillant Artistry-

Who the f cares that he's a great director? I could live without The Pianist or Chinatown if it had meant this asshole was never going to prey on another girl ever again.
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AndPreciousLittleofThat
09/30/09

In reply to Peter Fonda And Roman Polanski On Rape Vs. Murder
Dear Hollywood,

I defended you all these years when people were calling you a cesspool full of degenerates and money-grubbing opportunists. I listened patiently to every charity pitch, no matter how ridiculous. I bought your movies, I watched the Oscars, I fucking LOVED it. ALL.

Thanks a lot for proving me wrong.

This is like growing up really admiring Johnny Carson, and then later as an adult catching him in the middle of robbing a Jack-In-The-Box naked with a sawed-off shotgun, tweaked out of his gourd.
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ihateyourescalade
09/30/09

@AndPreciousLittleofThat: Johnny was framed, I tell you. Framed.
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KATE!
09/30/09

In reply to Peter Fonda And Roman Polanski On Rape Vs. Murder
its pretty amazing to hear people say the things they think but would never say if they weren't trying to get a (child) rapist off the hook.

"hey! every man likes the idea of having sex with pubescent girls! they're so easy to manipulate and disposable! hey! every guy does it? whats the big deal?"

im disgusted by all of this.
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Caenct
09/30/09

In reply to Peter Fonda And Roman Polanski On Rape Vs. Murder
hey, you know that show that everyone in Hollywood just loves? Called Mad Men? Didn't they have an episode where one of the characters- Joan, I think, the super voluptuous sexy one- has this very scenario happen to her? except that she's a full-grown woman, and was still powerless to stop it? What, did they hold the Oscars that night and nobody saw it?

Honestly, I feel that the time for a ginat boycott or some sort of action is called for here. The fetishization of girls and youth and sex and rape culture in Hollywood has no end in sight, does it? and now they're defending it. sigh.
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SarahHeartburn promoted this comment Caenct was starred Caenct was unstarred

SarahHeartburn
09/30/09

@Caenct: I agree with the use of rape as titilation in media. However, I think the point of Joan's rape in Mad Men was to show us (and her)that her Mr. Nice Guy wasn't at all.
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Caenct
09/30/09

@SarahHeartburn: No, that's exactly right, that's what I meant. My point was that on this major show, that everyone is Hollywood si supposexdly crazed about, they are showing exactly the same type of thing the Polanski did to the girl, except it was Joan a full grown woman. I was grateful- if that's the right word- that they showed that, because in no way did they frame it or film it or write it to show that this was Joan's fault or that it wasn't rape. It WAS. as was what Polanski did to that poor girl.
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