Sex isn't dirty or shameful either, that doesn't mean I want to hear about it at work.
If a woman experiences a miscarriage as a death, I understand bringing it up at work. She may need some time off or a little understanding about her lack of focus.
But Truck was psyched about her miscarriage, which makes it an over share. She tweeted about it on her professional account for the scandal and really can't complain when people get annoyed. #twitter
Nothing that is a biological function should be shameful. But as one who has been the moral support of a spouse who has gone though miscarriage 3 times, I can say with authority that it can be an extremely painful and private matter. The author was fortunate to already have two children, but to people who have been unable to conceive, and who have endured the emotional scarring of miscarriages, there is nothing light, or, in the author's case humorously utilitarian, about miscarriage. Had my wife read this tweet I know she would have been confronted with terrible feelings of inadequacy - imagine the feelings of isolation and insecurity a childless woman might feel if she's made to feel that her pain and suffering is nothing more than a casual joke to those who are able to have children. The author has a right to say what she wants - I personally though it was pretty clever, and a fitting sting to the right to life group, but knowing what I know about the emotional pain a miscarriage can cause, the comment should have been saved for private conversation between people who have not suffered because of miscarriage - otherwise it was extremely insensitive. #twitter
I think a lot of the debate here stems from the fact that the Tweet sounds very flip, whether she meant it to or not. Like - "In a board meeting. Had some bad coffee this morning. Can't wait to get out of here." If she wasn't enthusiastic about this pregnancy, then that's her business, but the language chosen and choice of time to discuss her miscarriage is a bit more uncommon. #twitter
@TheExperience: I have read that she has Aspergers. I imagine that it affects how she expresses things and how she reads other people. When I read that Tweet I thought "Classic autistic spectrum, she is not understanding how people will socially react to this." #twitter
Something that I am not seeing discussed regarding this story is the fact that Trunk has publically said in the past that she has Apergers and that has trouble navigating social "niceties".
My first thought was that maybe she genuinely doesn't realise how other people are going to react to the things she does and maybe doesn't process things in the way others do. #twitter
@ihateyourescalade: Are you really saying that people with Asperger's should not be allowed to speak publicly? Please tell me that you are not. #twitter
@Cerridwen: I'm not. I do, however, think too many people who have trouble navigating social niceties (because of Asperger's or more likely just plan old boorishness) have public forums these days. I prefer listening to people who are adept at navigating the social niceties.
@ihateyourescalade: I'm still finding your comment troubling, even with the qualification. I don't think you can fairly compare Asperger's with "boorishness." #twitter
@ihateyourescalade: But it is different with someone who is willfully ignorant or a jerk being given an undeserved public platform. Someone with Asperger's didn't choose to be born that way and denying them a public voice because they struggle with social niceties is really not ok. #twitter
@ihateyourescalade: I have Asperger's and that comment really stung. I have a lot of interesting things to contribute; I'm lucky in that I'm good at social niceties, but a lot of people with relevant things to say don't. I'd hope that most people would be able to at least sympathize, if not empathize, and make allowance for the left-of-field expression. You're entitled of course to listen to whoever you want, but the implication I read in your comment was 'too many people with those symptoms of Asperger's have a chance to speak to an audience', which is pretty disgusting to my ears. Please do let me know if I've read it wrongly. #twitter
@Cerridwen: I would never deny someone with Asperger's, including the two people with Asperger's whom I know personally, a public voice. I specifically said that in my original response. If somehow I didn't communicate that well, though, apologies. #twitter
@NellMood: I did not intend to equate the two. I was only doing it in reference to the original comment, in which applejuice said that Trunk has described herself as having trouble with social niceties. I was really only lamenting that so many boors (and I do not include those with Asperger's in this category--just regular old people with no manners or tact) seem to get public attention these days. It was not at all meant to condemn anyone with Asperger's. So, I apologize.
@StephanieBoland: You have. I promise. Please see my other responses below. I have two friends with Asperger's and they are two of the most interesting and smartest people I know. In fact, I think they should have a public forum. #twitter
Of course it's not shameful! My menstrual cycle is not shameful either-- nor is my ear wax, but I don't discuss them in a professional setting. #twitter
Firstly, good for Trunk for talking about this so matter-of-factly. Frankly, I know people who felt this relieved and unemotional about their own abortions but they didn't stand up in front of a crowded room to talk about it, let alone go on national television to be interviewed by some sanctimonious, self-professed 'Catholic'.
Secondly, there's nothing about her tone and body language that is either teenage or bratty. Yes, she's slightly hostile but she's been put into a position where a slight air of hostility is actually warranted. If she'd acted coy or flirtatious, or - god forbid - humbled by that pompous ass, she would have looked like a silly bit of fluff who doesn't have the courage to stand by her actions.
Thirdly, I don't have Aspergers Syndrome so I don't claim to be an expert but using that to explain Trunk's attitude smacks to me of the myth that people with ASDs don't feel emotions 'properly'. Yes, perhaps having an ASD helps Trunk to retain her cool under fire in some way, but I feel like her reason for not caring about her miscarriage and who knew about it was that she JUST DIDN'T CARE. Again, I can't be sure, as I never had it medically checked but I feel that I had a miscarriage a year or so ago and I really don't give a shit. If anything I'm really super pleased. And me - or Trunk, or anyone, male, female, transgender, intersex, or otherwise - saying that does not in any way take away from the serious pain that unwanted miscarriages cause.
Finally, and most importantly: despite what I said above, I really didn't know much about miscarriages before watching that clip. I didn't know how long they can last (I just thought I was having an inordinately long period), I didn't know that they weren't invariably agonizing (except perhaps in the first month or so), and I have certainly never witnessed anyone discuss them on national news before, despite the fact that so many women experience miscarriage at least once in their lives (whether it's 25 or 75 percent, it's still a lot of women). It's not just men like Sanchez that are getting an education about this kind of thing, it's women like me, who think of themselves as educated and informed feminists. If me and my ilk don't know then clearly we DO need to talk about this kind of thing publicly.
It really makes my day to see a woman who is unashamed of wanting and actively seeking out an abortion. Women should not have to feel shamed for something which is not shameful. I love how she is not the sad, regretful abortion- seeking woman we normally see in the media. She shows that yes, there are some women who want an abortion and are unapologetic in wanting it. Good for you, Penelope.
I love this. I love that she was so honest, and was not flustered when that asshole was clearly trying to get her to have an emotional reaction--do you have no shame? really? how does that even approach an acceptable question?
I had never heard of her before; now I am a huge fan.
This clip does nothing to change my original opinion.
This woman's tone and body language are those of a bratty teenager. Is there a way to advocate for women's reproductive rights without sounding like a 16 year-old daring her parents to give her a curfew?
I agree there is plenty of benefit to be gained from women sharing their experiences with miscarriage and abortion in a no-nonsense manner, but that doesn't have to mean being crass and obnoxious.
Women seem to be able to talk about their breasts (mammograms, mastectomies, lactation...) without sounding like crude, huffy little twats. When I hear women argue in favor of public breastfeeding they don't seem to feel the need to use coarse language or belligerent tones. So what's the deal with some pro-choicers who feel the need to combat "hushed reverent tones" with "brazen" and childish outbursts?
@MizJenkins: What coarse language did she use? I didn't notice any. And I didn't think her tone was at all bratty.
In fact, after getting called "young lady," I thought she handled herself quite respectably. I mean, calling a woman "young lady" is as offensive as if he had said "fuck you, lady," in my opinion.
@MizJenkins: She didn't seem at all bratty to me. She seemed matter-of-fact and candid when she was asked questions. I didn't notice anything childish about her either, I think she was very mature and calm, especially given the condescending hostility of her interviewer. I also didn't notice any coarse language at all.
I admire Trunk's ability to speak openly about her experiences. I also think it's bizarre that all of a sudden, people are freaking out because "ZOMG TMI!!!11!1!" particularly in the TV new media.
First of all, we live in a society where the lines between the public and private sphere have been irreversibly blurred. As a consequence, there are people who are more comfortable sharing information that people wouldn't have shared in the past. whatever, i'm not following that stuff on twitter (i don't even have a twitter account, get off my lawn!) and i'm not posting it, but, as I said, whatever.
What gets my goat is this faux outrage from the info-tainment industry, (and yes, CNN is part of that, no matter how many times they want to call themselves a serious news organization. exception: Fareed Zakaria - serious business) these are same people who deemed that "ZOMG Tori Spelling was admitted to the hospital with stomach pain!" somehow qualifies as news. Or that the sister of a girl who is famous because of a sex tape (talk about your TMi!) is getting married. Or that the top 800 meter runner is transgendered. how is this any of my business? someone in the news decided it was, because this shit is all over the TV.
And now, they want to turn around and tell a woman who is talking about her own personal life that "young lady, we just don't discuss these things in civilized company." Give me a frakking break. this is an industry that thrives on oversharing and spreading it around.
And all Trunk has done was use this environment of oversharing to steer the conversation to a topic that she feels is important (and frankly, I agree). and if that was truly her intent, well, good on her.
We live in a society where we are encouraged to work and to have sex, when and with whom we want. But at the same time, technology doesn't have us totally covered. Birth control is only 99.99% effective. There is a RISK, which scares me. I'm supposed to be able to enjoy sex, not necessarily for procreating, when and with whom I want, but there is this risk that I'll get pregnant. And if I do, I better not talk about it. No one wants to hear about it. Hell, my own mother doesn't want to talk about that hypothetical. I realize that the solution to not having a baby- abortion- makes some people uncomfortable because of their religious views. Well, I am actually sympathetic to those people, even though I don't agree. But I ask them, why are you shaming women? Do you want us back in the kitchen, slaving over an open fire? Because with the freedom to work comes complex deadlines, goals and agendas that require long-term family planning. And some of us cannot just stop and have a baby tomorrow. So, to the people who don't want us to abort: why aren't you in the lab, coming up with better protection?
I think PT handled herself reasonably well. But she was given a major boost care of the asshattery of Rick Sanchez. Who is this fucker, with his "I'm a Catholic," "birthing a human being," "young lady" bullshit? It's tough not to look good next to that hulking mass of self-righteous prickitude.
@PhillyLass: That said, I still find PT's original tweet massively TMI. I'm happy to discuss the condition of being a woman with my friends and my gynocologist. With co-workers? Not so much. Similarly, I have no interest in hearing about male co-workers' experience of the masculine condition. I don't need to hear about their prostates, or their vasectomies, or the wonders of their little blue pills.
I'm truly shocked and pleased to see this. I don't really hold an opinion about the fact that it was tweeted on a work account because, as she pointed out, her whole thing is about online-based self-branding. she obviously does not have a problem with this being a part of her brand. its her own personal business, both in the personal and the business sense.
but im REALLY happy to see a very clear and non-apologetic view about abortion rights on television. im sure a lot of people will be offended by her honesty, but i on the other hand feel so empowered by it. i had an abortion when i was 18 and whenever i tell someone about it they assume it must have been such a traumatic experience from which i'll never be able to recover. but instead i felt such a relief that i was able to avoid the traumatic experience of teen-motherhood. im very happy to see these conversations move away from the "trauma" of choice.
11/06/09
If a woman experiences a miscarriage as a death, I understand bringing it up at work. She may need some time off or a little understanding about her lack of focus.
But Truck was psyched about her miscarriage, which makes it an over share. She tweeted about it on her professional account for the scandal and really can't complain when people get annoyed. #twitter
11/06/09
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My first thought was that maybe she genuinely doesn't realise how other people are going to react to the things she does and maybe doesn't process things in the way others do. #twitter
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10/03/09
Secondly, there's nothing about her tone and body language that is either teenage or bratty. Yes, she's slightly hostile but she's been put into a position where a slight air of hostility is actually warranted. If she'd acted coy or flirtatious, or - god forbid - humbled by that pompous ass, she would have looked like a silly bit of fluff who doesn't have the courage to stand by her actions.
Thirdly, I don't have Aspergers Syndrome so I don't claim to be an expert but using that to explain Trunk's attitude smacks to me of the myth that people with ASDs don't feel emotions 'properly'. Yes, perhaps having an ASD helps Trunk to retain her cool under fire in some way, but I feel like her reason for not caring about her miscarriage and who knew about it was that she JUST DIDN'T CARE. Again, I can't be sure, as I never had it medically checked but I feel that I had a miscarriage a year or so ago and I really don't give a shit. If anything I'm really super pleased. And me - or Trunk, or anyone, male, female, transgender, intersex, or otherwise - saying that does not in any way take away from the serious pain that unwanted miscarriages cause.
Finally, and most importantly: despite what I said above, I really didn't know much about miscarriages before watching that clip. I didn't know how long they can last (I just thought I was having an inordinately long period), I didn't know that they weren't invariably agonizing (except perhaps in the first month or so), and I have certainly never witnessed anyone discuss them on national news before, despite the fact that so many women experience miscarriage at least once in their lives (whether it's 25 or 75 percent, it's still a lot of women). It's not just men like Sanchez that are getting an education about this kind of thing, it's women like me, who think of themselves as educated and informed feminists. If me and my ilk don't know then clearly we DO need to talk about this kind of thing publicly.
10/01/09
10/01/09
I had never heard of her before; now I am a huge fan.
10/01/09
This woman's tone and body language are those of a bratty teenager. Is there a way to advocate for women's reproductive rights without sounding like a 16 year-old daring her parents to give her a curfew?
I agree there is plenty of benefit to be gained from women sharing their experiences with miscarriage and abortion in a no-nonsense manner, but that doesn't have to mean being crass and obnoxious.
Women seem to be able to talk about their breasts (mammograms, mastectomies, lactation...) without sounding like crude, huffy little twats. When I hear women argue in favor of public breastfeeding they don't seem to feel the need to use coarse language or belligerent tones. So what's the deal with some pro-choicers who feel the need to combat "hushed reverent tones" with "brazen" and childish outbursts?
10/01/09
In fact, after getting called "young lady," I thought she handled herself quite respectably. I mean, calling a woman "young lady" is as offensive as if he had said "fuck you, lady," in my opinion.
10/02/09
10/01/09
First of all, we live in a society where the lines between the public and private sphere have been irreversibly blurred. As a consequence, there are people who are more comfortable sharing information that people wouldn't have shared in the past. whatever, i'm not following that stuff on twitter (i don't even have a twitter account, get off my lawn!) and i'm not posting it, but, as I said, whatever.
What gets my goat is this faux outrage from the info-tainment industry, (and yes, CNN is part of that, no matter how many times they want to call themselves a serious news organization. exception: Fareed Zakaria - serious business) these are same people who deemed that "ZOMG Tori Spelling was admitted to the hospital with stomach pain!" somehow qualifies as news. Or that the sister of a girl who is famous because of a sex tape (talk about your TMi!) is getting married. Or that the top 800 meter runner is transgendered. how is this any of my business? someone in the news decided it was, because this shit is all over the TV.
And now, they want to turn around and tell a woman who is talking about her own personal life that "young lady, we just don't discuss these things in civilized company." Give me a frakking break. this is an industry that thrives on oversharing and spreading it around.
And all Trunk has done was use this environment of oversharing to steer the conversation to a topic that she feels is important (and frankly, I agree). and if that was truly her intent, well, good on her.
10/03/09
10/01/09
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but im REALLY happy to see a very clear and non-apologetic view about abortion rights on television. im sure a lot of people will be offended by her honesty, but i on the other hand feel so empowered by it. i had an abortion when i was 18 and whenever i tell someone about it they assume it must have been such a traumatic experience from which i'll never be able to recover. but instead i felt such a relief that i was able to avoid the traumatic experience of teen-motherhood. im very happy to see these conversations move away from the "trauma" of choice.