I love seeing so many smart observations. I never would have seen the connections between the British boss liking America, Kinsey realizing Peggy (and other women) might actually be beneficial to the workplace and the women in The Group being somewhat 'liberated' by the Great Depression – but there you go! #manmenrecap
My simmering dislike for Paul Kinsey reached a boil this episode. He resents Peggy for being smarter than him and chalks up her creative successes to some imagined female privilege. He's like the first MRA.
Also, it was supremely weird and gross that he was choking his chicken to the Jackie or Marilyn ad. #manmenrecap
@Hana Maru: I adore Paul. I think he is genuinely a good guy who is caught in the delusions of that era. And I want him to get together with Joan. Their little dance at the end of the Nixon Party episode in Season 1 is one of my all time favorite scenes. #manmenrecap
@Hana Maru: He is the man I love to hate (in part because if his Wellesian looks). He is such an ass, I'm glad they showed his true, not-so-highbrow origins a few episodes back. He's just terrified of not seeming a little better than everyone else. In many ways, he is the character who still exists today, putting on a faux accent, assuming anyone who's doing better than him is taking away his deserved, hard-earned success. #manmenrecap
Also, I really loved seeing the everyday domesticity of Betty in this episode. I love little slices of life from days gone by and seeing her hair in pin curls, in a bathrobe/nightgown doing the laundry was so interesting.
I have a keen interest in vintage hair techniques so I was particularly thrilled in being shown a woman walking around in the complicated setting it took to do those wonderful hairstyles of days gone by as such a mundane every day thing. #manmenrecap
A little late to the party but no one seems to be bringing up the interesting scenes between the English guy who's name I can never remember and his wife who is so dearly homesick for London. (I loved that she thinks Moneypenny is a toad)
Does anyone else get the impression that he genuinely LIKES America and NYC? It really raised an interesting point with him saying in the ten months he's been there that no one asked him where he went to school IE no one questions how old your money is/what class your family is. I think it's always important to point out how DIFFERENT classicism in America vs England is (especially in the 60's where they're about to have their own social revolution as well). Yes, is their class in America? Of course only people at the top think there isn't. But it's definitely not the same. #manmenrecap
@Sunshineyness: I totally get that impression (and don't think it's changed so much in 50 years). He's got his British toady and his creepy bosses on one side and this land of opportunity on the other. The show is all about the cracks in apple pie America, but it sure is appealing to someone part of a dying empire that's got even more dirty secrets under an ever stiffer surface. #manmenrecap
Am I the only one who struggles to really sympathise with Betty? I mean, I get she has it tough, but she's also a huge spoiled brat.
All of the characters have moments when we see their struggles, their conflicts, and I can feel for Joan, Roger, Pete and Don etc at various points, even when their actions are dubious, but I struggle feeling for Betty. I think it's because I hate the way she treats her children, especially Sally. It seems to me that Betty has never grown up and displays that typical behaviour of parents who hate that they are no longer the child. I can't STAND the way she treats Sally, it really upsets me.
Obviously Betty has been hard done by, but I think its also important to remember not to fully victimise her. Its not that simple. Betty was a young, beautiful, well-off model. She could've had ANYONE she wanted, and she chose that man. A man she really knew nothing about. As her father said 'he has no people.' She's chosen to live a life of delusion, believed what she wanted to believe, and now the shit is hitting the fan. #manmenrecap
@maybeaways: January Jones said that Betty married Don Draper because he was so good in bed. She said he was "the best f*ck she had ever had"...and that convinced her to spend the rest of her life with this guy. #manmenrecap
@Island of Misfit Toys: I think the rest of that quote was something like "even though she knew nothing about him." She married Don because he was handsome and a good lay. Betty is child. #manmenrecap
@kate!: And now she's realizing that what she wanted isn't what makes her happy. But I'm still not sure that she knows what she wants. If she were single, I think she would still be clueless about who would be the man to make her happy. #manmenrecap
@Island of Misfit Toys: Definitely. We saw how confused she was in her flirtation with Henry.
Oh man, now I'm starting to feel sympathetic toward her. #manmenrecap
@maybeaways: I have to agree with you that the way Betty treats her children is so despicable that it colors the rest of my perception of her character. She is supremely sweet to her new infant, it seems to me, because he is just like a living, breathing doll with only elemental demands on her. In contrast, her older children have their own personalities and demanding needs that prove their independence from her. They tax her rather than entertain her. She and Don both exemplify such crappy parenting, it is painful to watch. #manmenrecap
@kate!: So, physical attraction then? That can look a lot like love when you're in your late-teens/early-20s, when Don and Betty met. And obviously he married her right back, so I'd say he's equally responsible.
For the life of me I don't get how Don's character never comes into question for hiding his identity from and cheating on his wife and the mother of his three kids. How his being a prick ends up on Betty's head. #manmenrecap
@snobographer: I think they're both despicable for different reasons. Pointing out Betty's shortcomings doesn't mean one excuses Don's bad behavior. I think @rowingrowingrowing makes a good point about her horrible parenting skills which is reason enough to think of her as a prick. #manmenrecap
@rowingrowingrowing: That's right, she thinks her kids, along with most things, are there to amuse her. And as soon as these kids start to grow up, thus demanding her to start being a real mother, she fails.
I've been re-watching the first series and there's this awful moment when Sally gets scared because the man with the birds said he'd shoot the dog. Betty and Don send her back to bed and then Betty says something like: 'She'll be fine. Did you see those big tears? I have to get a picture of her crying one day.' - WTF??? That is one of the most fucked up things I've heard on the show. #manmenrecap
I just have to say -- I started reading Gawker's recap and had to stop at about the time he equated Don's driving Ms. Farrell's brother to being completely pussy whipped. WTF guys, we're not supposed to EMULATE the sexism on the show. It's funny the completely different interpretations people can have on things. Oh wait, that's the theme of this episode. Maybe That's why they're being sexist dbags over there. carry on. #manmenrecap
@LaMorenita: Mad Men is a douche litmus test. If someone (okay, a guy) can talk unironically about the 'good old days' after watching the elevator attendant talked down to or Joan raped on the floor, not only does he fail at Matthew Weiner's Drama 101, he fails at life and shouldn't be touched. #manmenrecap
It's Sally Draper who just breaks my heart. I was about her age back then - but I had a mother who loved me - and liked me. But I have friends who had Betty Draper mothers. And they are very damaged adults. #manmenrecap
@Funzette, I thought the camera's lingering gaze on The Group when Betty was in the tub was pretty important, and I'm surprised it hasn't been discussed more in this thread, especially given that Kay sublimates her own desire and talent to a philandering husband who's thought of as a genius.
That said, I really don't want Betty's reaction to play out in the same way as Kay's. I want to see rebellion here, not suicide. I want her to show that strength that's been hinted at for a while now.
@elkanikkole: That's a really nice point, and I hope that Betty acts in reaction to the stories of women before her rather than resigning herself to them. #manmenrecap
@elkanikkole: I'm wondering if it's purposeful that Betty (or any of the women on the show) still have not been shown reading The Feminine Mystique which was printed earlier in the year. Would it have been too controversial at the time for Betty to want to read? Maybe not literary enough? I'm genuinely curious because my grandmother was a little bit older than Betty was in this year and she once told me she vividly remembered reading that book in '63 and she wasn't as well educated, affluent, or time-on-her-hands as Betty is. #manmenrecap
I hated seeing Betty put the drawer away after waiting up all night to confront Don with it. She always has to wait for him, he still doesn't give a shit. It might as well be her in that drawer.
After the phone call in the morning, where he told her he wanted to show her off, I was hoping she would take the stacks of money, take the kids, and leave. Leave the shoebox in the open drawer for Don to find. Move in to her fathers empty house, go to Italy, something. Don's not ever going to be honest with her. #manmenrecap
@Hana Maru: "I want to show you off, Betts."
That single sentence made me die inside for her.
She's just his shiny, blond trophy. And all she wants to be is something more to him.
*Tear* #manmenrecap
@VargasVegetarian: God, that whole conversation broke my heart. And it is really solidifying how much of an ass Don REALLY is. Gah, I was so mad she didn't get to confront him. #manmenrecap
@Sunshineyness: I'm envisioning her confrontation to him as the final scene in the season.
They fight. He yells at her about how hysterical she is getting and turns to walk away. And she says "Don't turn away from me, Dick Whitman." Long pan on Don's horrified face. Cut scene. #manmenrecap
I hated Betty's response to Sally about why they don't go to church every week.
"We don't need to go every week."
So Carla goes to church every week because she NEEDS to go. Oh I see, she's such a bad person being born black and all. I guess white people are inherently good and we colored folks need to pray and hope we can be good people like them.
@Lana Leigh loves Meryl Streep: It's little things like this that people say to children and then children take them so literally and questions arise. If the children then ask the most logical questions, those are swept under the rug.
It was telling that Betty was embarassed when Sally outed them as C&E Christians. #manmenrecap
@TheExperience: YAY! Do you think they'll bring her back after SC gets sold again? Because if moneypenny is gone, they'll need a new office manager... or is that too sitcom-y, "forget this episode ever happened, folks, everything's back to normal!"? #manmenrecap
I couldn't find any mention of this downthread...what was up with Don saying, "I swore I would do this right once" when he handed his card to the teacher's brother? I can't remember another instance of him handing a card to someone or anything else he could be referencing. #manmenrecap
@Turtleface: I thought he was referring to relationships with women and how he was going to try to have an honest one for once and then realized this one wasn't going to be it. #manmenrecap
@Turtleface: Hmm, I thought he was referencing his brother who he paid to go away and eventually killed himself. I think Don offered his card and his help so Sally's teachers brother doesnt end up the same way. #manmenrecap
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Also, it was supremely weird and gross that he was choking his chicken to the Jackie or Marilyn ad. #manmenrecap
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I have a keen interest in vintage hair techniques so I was particularly thrilled in being shown a woman walking around in the complicated setting it took to do those wonderful hairstyles of days gone by as such a mundane every day thing. #manmenrecap
10/20/09
Does anyone else get the impression that he genuinely LIKES America and NYC? It really raised an interesting point with him saying in the ten months he's been there that no one asked him where he went to school IE no one questions how old your money is/what class your family is. I think it's always important to point out how DIFFERENT classicism in America vs England is (especially in the 60's where they're about to have their own social revolution as well). Yes, is their class in America? Of course only people at the top think there isn't. But it's definitely not the same. #manmenrecap
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10/19/09
All of the characters have moments when we see their struggles, their conflicts, and I can feel for Joan, Roger, Pete and Don etc at various points, even when their actions are dubious, but I struggle feeling for Betty. I think it's because I hate the way she treats her children, especially Sally. It seems to me that Betty has never grown up and displays that typical behaviour of parents who hate that they are no longer the child. I can't STAND the way she treats Sally, it really upsets me.
Obviously Betty has been hard done by, but I think its also important to remember not to fully victimise her. Its not that simple. Betty was a young, beautiful, well-off model. She could've had ANYONE she wanted, and she chose that man. A man she really knew nothing about. As her father said 'he has no people.' She's chosen to live a life of delusion, believed what she wanted to believe, and now the shit is hitting the fan. #manmenrecap
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Oh man, now I'm starting to feel sympathetic toward her. #manmenrecap
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For the life of me I don't get how Don's character never comes into question for hiding his identity from and cheating on his wife and the mother of his three kids. How his being a prick ends up on Betty's head. #manmenrecap
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10/20/09
I've been re-watching the first series and there's this awful moment when Sally gets scared because the man with the birds said he'd shoot the dog. Betty and Don send her back to bed and then Betty says something like: 'She'll be fine. Did you see those big tears? I have to get a picture of her crying one day.' - WTF??? That is one of the most fucked up things I've heard on the show. #manmenrecap
10/19/09
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That said, I really don't want Betty's reaction to play out in the same way as Kay's. I want to see rebellion here, not suicide. I want her to show that strength that's been hinted at for a while now.
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After the phone call in the morning, where he told her he wanted to show her off, I was hoping she would take the stacks of money, take the kids, and leave. Leave the shoebox in the open drawer for Don to find. Move in to her fathers empty house, go to Italy, something. Don's not ever going to be honest with her. #manmenrecap
10/19/09
That single sentence made me die inside for her.
She's just his shiny, blond trophy. And all she wants to be is something more to him.
*Tear* #manmenrecap
10/20/09
10/20/09
They fight. He yells at her about how hysterical she is getting and turns to walk away. And she says "Don't turn away from me, Dick Whitman." Long pan on Don's horrified face. Cut scene. #manmenrecap
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10/19/09
10/19/09
"We don't need to go every week."
So Carla goes to church every week because she NEEDS to go. Oh I see, she's such a bad person being born black and all. I guess white people are inherently good and we colored folks need to pray and hope we can be good people like them.
Nice Betts #manmenrecap
10/19/09
It was telling that Betty was embarassed when Sally outed them as C&E Christians. #manmenrecap
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