oh... so catholics AREN'T outraged over obama? that's weird, considering my militantly catholic coworker sent me a 13 page letter from a bishop to obama which compared abortion to the "holocaust" and the creation of a "master race". she praised how moderate the bishop's argument was.
(and no, i have NO idea why she is forwarding these things....)
@clarafier: A majority of Catholics voted for Obama. Unlike the church hierarchy, a large number of American Catholics can see that there are other "life" issues besides just abortion that are worth worrying about. There are some vocal right-wingers, but there is significant disagreement within their church.
@clarafier: I HATE the abortion is the new Holocaust meme. It is so incredibly offensive to the people who lived through the Holocaust (and their family members). It trivializes the crimes that the Nazis committed. My neighbor has an "Abortion is a Holocaust" bumper sticker and it takes a lot of willpower not to march up to her door and tell her all about my grandparents' cousins who were killed by the Nazis. Or key her car.
Obviously, the way to deal with a health crisis is to first go on vacation, wait a week or so and then fly over the quarantined areas, pack all the infected into a crowded area with not enough food and water, leave corpses lying around, reward any soldiers who shoot at anyone who dares look for medicine and aid, and have a PR stunt/press conference with lots of medicine and then take the medicine away when you are finished.
You tell them how it is done, Brownie. Trying to actually help people and let people know about the threat? Psssht, amateurs.
@Sputnik_Sweetheart: I think I just had a traumatic flashback. I can't believe that shit actually went down. What a shitshow this country has been for the last 8 years. More and more I am thanking our lucky stars to have some competency in the white house again.
@Sputnik_Sweetheart: We need a Seth Myers-Amy Poehler "Really" segment here.
You think you're in a position to criticize anyone for their response to a public health crisis, Brownie? Really? You actually use the word "overreacting?" Really? You honestly want to go on record as saying Obama is just doing this because people aren't paying enough attention to him? Really? And you're qualified to speak on this because you were once FEMA director? Really?
@J.D.Regent: "I think I just had a traumatic flashback."
Sorry! I remember being horrified by what I was seeing on the news at the time, but a few a months ago I saw "Trouble the Water" and I realized what actually happened during Katrina's aftermath was 100 times worse than what the media had originally reported.
I am seriously bewildered as to why anti-choicers are acting like Obama is like a new and different kind of evil for being pro choice, otherwise known as the law of the land. Were they this crazy under Clinton?
@J.D.Regent: I saw an anti-choice ad on some right wing website that said Obama Says "Yes we Can" above a picture of a fetus with a red circle/slash through it. It's funny, I don't remember "Yes we Can...Kill Feti" during the campaign.
@J.D.Regent: If memory serves, yes, yes they were. They were all sorts of crazy under Clinton. That was the time when a lot of people were murdered for going to/ practicing at clinics.
Could someone please explain how commencement speakers are chosen? Do they have to have attended the school, or have supported it in some way? At the graduations I've attended here in OZ, the deans and such are the ones who speak.
@Fridge Hussy :Is on Crappy Pop Video Detox Since 26/4/09: as far as I can tell, it's pretty much "we'll take whomever we can get/has name recognition/might impart some sort of wisdom." Granted, one of my friends had to suffer through Bill O'Reilly as his commencement speaker. I would have brought molotov cocktails to said graduation...
@Fridge Hussy :Is on Crappy Pop Video Detox Since 26/4/09: We had Friedman. As far as I can tell, there was a student committee who came up with a bunch of names, started the invitations with the most important, and moved down the ladder until they got someone to agree.
I think "importance" was determined by the committee, which included the editor of our daily newspaper. Any non-NYT-reader was just like, "Who? Aren't we a fancy school?"
I speculate that this is the same committee that got us Ben Harper for spring fling one year.
@NefariousNewt: Hey hey hey, it's not the SCHOOL that's doing this. The SCHOOL invited him, and the school's president keeps defending the decision to invite Obama. This is an asshole move by a PROFESSOR, not the UNIVERSITY. Most of the students at Notre Dame are extremely supportive of Obama. Notre Dame is partially responsible for Obama taking Indiana in the last election. Careful who you're pointing to there.
@morninggloria: My friend graduated from ND 2 years ago, and was a leader of "Catholics for Obama", with many ND student members. He was in the seminarian program, too (so he is extra-special-Catholic)
Although, yes, there is much about the school's administrative policies that are incredibly questionable, and downright intolerant (or at least back when I attended, a long-long time ago)
As I mentioned in a previous thread, it's so awesome that there is a witty, smart commentator/ND grad on Jezebel. I feel a bond in the shared Big Catholic School Experience.
@WhyTheFuss: I'm sub-5 years out, and when I was there, most of the people I knew had liberal leanings. There was a campaign (student-led) for gay acceptance in response to some administrative move that was less than gay-friendly. Every single showing of The Vagina Monologues sold out my senior year.
I mean, we're not as liberal as "normal" colleges by any means, but we're not all laying around in our money beds praying the rosary and shaming people constantly, and I think that many people are uninformed about what things are really like there.
Lord. I just read the Politico article about the new GOP ad. And yes, it is outrageous. But also, ridiculous. The fear-mongering, minority-hate thing is not working for them anymore. Their party shrinks daily. Yet they keep on trying it. How can they be so dumb? Have all the smart people left the GOP in total? I cannot imagine one person seeing what is described in that video, and then being enticed to change from D or I to R. They crazy.
For all you Catholics who wouldn't mind torturing people, how about we see just how much love you have for your Lord, by crucifying you. I'm sure God will appreciate your sacrifice.
@NefariousNewt: Lots of people still really dig the idea, if not the practice, of self-flagellation and martyrdom. They're not necessarily being consciously hypocritical, though I suspect that when it came down to it they might change their minds right quick.
@la.donna.pietra: Which puts them far ahead of a lot of nice, comfy-couch type American Catholics, who talk a good game but don't even follow the precepts of their own savior.
"Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay,"b says the Lord. 20 On the contrary:
"If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head."
Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." - Romans 12:17-21
Dear Christians, read your god damned book and shut the hell up.
@stacyinbean: I still enjoy the fact that it's all about "oh you wait, they'll get their comeuppance" (burning coals and wrath and all). Peaceful concepts, they're a bit tenuous?
@stacyinbean: Unfortunately, the Bible says a lot of things that don't really embody that huggy Jesus love, especially in the Old Testament. Maybe we would have been better off without the Bible existing, or without all of those extra books that come after the gospels. Stupid people take shit that agrees with their desire to be bigots and run with it.
@stacyinbean: Uhhhh. Yes, but don't encourage them too much. "And if any mischief follow, then you shall give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe." Exodus 21:23-25
@morninggloria: It's my opinion that if the bible didn't stir up the shit tank, something else would have :( People have always looked for a reason to be really fucked up toward one another.
@mbprice: Of course that's in there but today's Christians should be following the New Testament more than the old. Their entire purpose is to be 'Christ-like' not 'God-like', I think they often forget that because it's rare to see them acting more like Jesus...
This is why I like visiting other people who have dogs. I can roll around on the carpet with the friendly pup, play fetch and chase for hours, make up silly endless songs and/or silly endless new names for the pooch pal, bid a fond ear-ruffling adieu, and then at the end of the day I can go home to an apartment where the only thing that has a strong urge to poop in the morning is me.
@tscheese: Yep! I love my family's puppy- because we got him after I started college and I don't ever plan on being home for more than two or three weeks at a time ever again if I can avoid it!
I was home for twelve days for Passover because of weekends and skipping classes and such. I walked the dog twice. Once with mom, once by myself.
@tscheese: I love how Michelle phrases it: "I'm still up at 5:15 a.m. taking my dog out."
Because she KNEW this would happen. Mom ends up feeding the dog, brushing the dog, taking it for walks, while the kids only recall they even have a dog when they feel like playing with it. And meanwhile, dad is off running the world or something.
Some Christians (especially some of the crazier Catholics) really get off on the suffering of Jesus during the Passion. During Lent, my childhood church (and I'm sure most others) had Stations of the Cross every week, and on Palm Sunday, the kids from Sunday School would read the Passion play, with different kids playing different parts.
One year, one of the narrators (this well intentioned but basically illiterate girl who was given the part because everyone felt sorry for her) butchered the line about the women "lamenting over Christ" and changed it to the women "laminating over Christ."
One of the funniest moments of my churchgoing career.
But yeah. There's this weird excitement that some Christians feel about torture in regard to Jesus, so it doesn't surprise me that they think it's okay.
@morninggloria: I was raised as a non-denominational Christian but went to Catholic school for high school. I was so horrified the first time I saw the Stations of the Cross out on the walls, WHY?!?! Who wants to see that?! My church never EVER even had anything with Jesus on the cross, let alone the damn steps leading up to it. What is with Catholics and this shit?!
@morninggloria: I remember one time when I was Jesusing, I had that Tori Amos lyric in my head: "So you can make me cum; that doesn't make you jesus." Me in my head: "In fact, apparently it does!"
@morninggloria: Remember that movie Stigmata, with Gabriel Byrne as the sexy priest and Patricia Arquette as the sexy, sinning, promiscuous victim of random stigmata-ing? That pretty much summed up the Church's culture for me in a weird way. I can't quite verbalize it for you, unfortunately; something about whores and angels and lots of blood and good lighting.
@saintbernadette: I understand that mainstream Catholics aren't sitting there getting their jollies from just imagining the thorns poking into the scalp of Jesus and how much that must hurt and Oooooh yeah baby tell me more about the pain... and I understand the importance of Jesus' suffering to Christianity. I think that people who consider themselves Christian yet condone torture are missing the point of the Passion. The point of the passion is not that TORTURE is good, it's that JESUS is good. That's all I'm saying.
@morninggloria: I've always been a little bit offended by the obsession with Jesus' suffering in the Passion. I mean, it's not like it was the worst suffering that has ever happened. Crucifixion is bad, but it's not like Jesus is the only one to have suffered it, and I bet there are people in every church who have been through worse. I think there is a lot of meaning to the suffering of Jesus but it's stupid when people try to cudgel you with it like it's worse than any suffering you have known. Sorry assholes, life sucks for a lot of people, not just Jesus.
@J.D.Regent: No, I agree with you. It wasn't the worst suffering by any means. His crucifixion lasted what, three hours? when most crucifixions could sometimes last days (hence the leg breaking thing).
@morninggloria: I think some Catholic's opinions on torture may have more to do the church's standing on Just War Theory and the whole ends justify the means thing.(Please note I am not one of those people.)
@Snowbunny: also because Notre Dame has had other pro choice speakers in the past without this kind of pouting.
Also? Because having an anti-abortion president for 8 years didn't actually you know reduce abortion at all so you would think they would get over thinking it's all about the president.
Also, sort of on-topic: last night I got to listen to Paul Krugman, George Soros, Robin Wells, Bill Bradley and Nouriel Roubini talk about the economy. Oh, and Niall Ferguson, who was an asshole who called the stimulus program "Soviet." I wished I'd had a teabag to throw at him.
I did, however, learn this: we're all fucked. Hold on to your hats, ladies, and anyone thinking of going into the financial sector/law practice: DON'T DO EET.
@PilgrimSoul: I wouldn't say that it's a bad industry to enter, if you're going to be a regulatory specialist or work in forensic accounting.
Niall Ferguson is sort of a dick, but he wrote a very interesting book called The History of Money that I would highly recommend to anyone who wants to know how we got here.
(And now I have that Talking Heads song stuck in my head)
@PilgrimSoul: Ooh, was this the PEN world voices event, I really wanted to attend that but I am too broke for paid events.
I think Niall Ferguson is an asshole too, and a colonial apologist.
@morninggloria: If you are referring to his book, The Ascent of Money, I think his ideology gets the best of him in the book. He holds the IMF completely blameless for the Asian Financial Crisis, come on! And he misrepresents Stiglitz and Krugman's actual viewpoints in the book. If you didn't figure it out, I wasn't too happy with his book but would love to hear more of your thoughts.
@spicyplumchatni: I don't know his work super well but I think he has sloppy thinking from being an economist. You can't just imagine ideal models in other fields like you can in econ. He should stick to playing make believe at banks instead of sticking his toes into history and global politics.
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(and no, i have NO idea why she is forwarding these things....)
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(Not Catholic, but just saying.)
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You tell them how it is done, Brownie. Trying to actually help people and let people know about the threat? Psssht, amateurs.
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You think you're in a position to criticize anyone for their response to a public health crisis, Brownie? Really? You actually use the word "overreacting?" Really? You honestly want to go on record as saying Obama is just doing this because people aren't paying enough attention to him? Really? And you're qualified to speak on this because you were once FEMA director? Really?
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Sorry! I remember being horrified by what I was seeing on the news at the time, but a few a months ago I saw "Trouble the Water" and I realized what actually happened during Katrina's aftermath was 100 times worse than what the media had originally reported.
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I think "importance" was determined by the committee, which included the editor of our daily newspaper. Any non-NYT-reader was just like, "Who? Aren't we a fancy school?"
I speculate that this is the same committee that got us Ben Harper for spring fling one year.
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Although, yes, there is much about the school's administrative policies that are incredibly questionable, and downright intolerant (or at least back when I attended, a long-long time ago)
As I mentioned in a previous thread, it's so awesome that there is a witty, smart commentator/ND grad on Jezebel. I feel a bond in the shared Big Catholic School Experience.
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I mean, we're not as liberal as "normal" colleges by any means, but we're not all laying around in our money beds praying the rosary and shaming people constantly, and I think that many people are uninformed about what things are really like there.
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"If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head."
Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." - Romans 12:17-21
Dear Christians, read your god damned book and shut the hell up.
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@mbprice: You'd think more devout christians would get that this quote is Old Testament and focus more on the New Testament. You'd THINK.
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Cats can (usually) also figure out where to poop without a lot of primate intervention. I am a cat person.
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I was home for twelve days for Passover because of weekends and skipping classes and such. I walked the dog twice. Once with mom, once by myself.
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Because she KNEW this would happen. Mom ends up feeding the dog, brushing the dog, taking it for walks, while the kids only recall they even have a dog when they feel like playing with it. And meanwhile, dad is off running the world or something.
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One year, one of the narrators (this well intentioned but basically illiterate girl who was given the part because everyone felt sorry for her) butchered the line about the women "lamenting over Christ" and changed it to the women "laminating over Christ."
One of the funniest moments of my churchgoing career.
But yeah. There's this weird excitement that some Christians feel about torture in regard to Jesus, so it doesn't surprise me that they think it's okay.
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I was not a good Catholic.
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@morninggloria: I think some Catholic's opinions on torture may have more to do the church's standing on Just War Theory and the whole ends justify the means thing.(Please note I am not one of those people.)
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Well, no, he is the president and stuff.
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Also? Because having an anti-abortion president for 8 years didn't actually you know reduce abortion at all so you would think they would get over thinking it's all about the president.
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I did, however, learn this: we're all fucked. Hold on to your hats, ladies, and anyone thinking of going into the financial sector/law practice: DON'T DO EET.
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Niall Ferguson is sort of a dick, but he wrote a very interesting book called The History of Money that I would highly recommend to anyone who wants to know how we got here.
(And now I have that Talking Heads song stuck in my head)
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I think Niall Ferguson is an asshole too, and a colonial apologist.
@morninggloria: If you are referring to his book, The Ascent of Money, I think his ideology gets the best of him in the book. He holds the IMF completely blameless for the Asian Financial Crisis, come on! And he misrepresents Stiglitz and Krugman's actual viewpoints in the book. If you didn't figure it out, I wasn't too happy with his book but would love to hear more of your thoughts.
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