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New York, 6:38 AM
Wed Dec 16
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07/29/09
This isn't nearly as easy as you're implying. ESPN has been trying to train more men to watch soccer for years, and with very little success, and training, for that matter, isn't the word. They'll need to be around for a lot longer than a decade to be part of the larger culture, but the truth is that they'll need to be salient while they wait, and I don't know who's going to make such a long term investment.
07/29/09
Also, the whole family went to see my sister play soccer in large part because we were really, really hoping she'd stick with it.
My neighbor boys all played soccer for so long it was a community--parents could trade off attending games and out-of-town events, knowing the other chaperons were people they trusted and that they wouldn't miss anything life changing.
Anecdotal explanation.
07/29/09
(I feel like there's an inappropriate women sweeping joke in there somewhere, but I'll leave that to the deadspin boys)
Seriously though, I love watching women's curling more than the men's. Maybe because I know the players better? Which may be the root of why men's professional sports are watched more often - player recognition?
07/29/09
Humans love narratives, and we love feeling connected to the story. Make women's sports just as much a narrative as men's are--give them the build-up, and the close examination of each player, and the montage about their background.
07/29/09
As a Canadian, even I think it's weird that you know the name of a single curler, male or female.
07/29/09
Sports are kind of like a soap opera, in that half the fun is in the drama: picking a favorite team, picking favorite players, finding somebody to root for, following along with the highs and lows of a close game or an entire season. Without regular television coverage, it's really tough to get into it. And the irony in women's sports is that they get more coverage on the college end than the professional end (at least in their local markets). The NBA wasn't drawing huge crowds in its early years, either--it took the television era to do that. Once people could watch games on TV and get regular coverage on their daily news, they got drawn in. A lot of times, people will get into one sport, follow it on Sportscenter, and then get drawn into another sport that's also being covered on Sportscenter, so they decide to check out a game on their TV, which converts them into a fan. Until women's sports are widely covered on programs like that, and widely available to watch, they don't really stand a chance of being as popular as the men's sports. (And obviously, until they're as popular as the men's sports, it's unlikely they'll get covered on those programs, so . . .)
But the other half of it is that most people don't get into watching sports on their own--and this is doubly true of girls and women, whom it's not expected of. They get into it because of a dad or a brother, or later, male friends or a boyfriend. (I'm not saying that they never get it from a mom or a sister or female friends--just that it's comparatively rare.) And because those men are often prejudiced against the idea of women's sports (either legitimately prejudiced, in that they prefer a different style of play, or illegitimately prejudiced, in that "they just don't like watching women's sports"), often the girls/women go along with it, at least for a while. But even women who do want to watch women's sports have a hard time finding somebody to go with them.
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07/29/09
I hate to admit it, but I can believe this kind of thinking kind of fuels the issue with people not supporting women's sports. And I can attest to people wondering "what's wrong" - I play rugby - despite my team being 50/50 straight/gay-other. We virtually have no fans and it's hard as hell to get people to come to the games - even my own FRIENDS. But the men's games? Fans galore. And we were undefeated this spring season.
07/29/09
07/29/09
Let me recommend a grad-school thesis documentary I came across: Paradox on the Pitch. It tells a lot about women's rugby from a rookie's viewpoint. There are 3 parts to it.
07/29/09
I think that your acquaintance's comment is interesting for two reasons though:
1) I know a lot of folks (men and women) who play in social leagues after college. I mean, it's kickball, and it's partly an excuse to mingle and drink (not unlike casual collegiate rugby clubs!) but no one seems to give women the side eye for participating. I have friends who have dealt or seen some sexism in their teams or other teams but no one is thinking that there is something flawed with these women.
2) On the other hand, I have known some players who are interested in post-college women's rugby teams who have gotten a lot more flack about it from the people in their lives then the players who want to join a men's team. WTF?
Finally, congrats on being undefeated! (My college team, despite my and a few other teammates best efforts, weren't very successful in our local area.) Which part of the country do you play in?
07/29/09
07/29/09
I play on a competitive team in the south (which makes rugby that much more obscure). Not exactly kickball but we like to think we're pretty hardcore and have had a reputation for being that.
What I love about our team is we've got a little bit of every kind of person. One of our players joined after having three kids, some (like myself) had never played an organized sport ever in life, we've got some with 20+ years of experience, we've got girls who also bring in experience from soccer, footy, Aussie rules rugby, and Gaelic football.
It's my goal to get a sideline full of fans for the fall season.
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07/29/09
Wouldn't it then logically follow that since the girls' group isn't "diluted" with lower income peers, a higher proportion of families would choose to attend the girls' games simply because they could afford to compared with the boys who would reflect various high and low income levels, so a smaller proportion of parents would attend due to the smaller proportion of middle and upper class athletes?
07/29/09
07/29/09
And yet the only thing people remember is that she's the woman who took off her shirt
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No sports organization is going to get airtime unless they can prove there's a large enough audience that advertisers are willing to spend in order to market to.
07/29/09
Exactly. As a hockey fan I would love it if, say, ESPN gave the NHL (a "major sport") the same kind of coverage that it gave to its sacred cows of the NFL, NBA, MLB and even freaking NASCAR.
07/29/09
came to watching tennis late, and watch men's and women's equally.
I'd like to see diving, swimming, trampoline, gymnastics, skiing/snowboarding get traction as women's professional sports. Personally, I'd watch them whenever they were on. Plus, individual sports like that are easier to watch randomly because a good personal interest story can tie you in and you're rooting for a person, not a team, so you can get connected.
07/29/09
Of course, I think that women's games, as a result, become more about precision and strategy, which to me is more interesting. But I think most people watch sports for that moment of feeling like someone is an inhuman god. And you don't get that as much from women's sports.
07/29/09
07/29/09
The Williams sisters routinely look like inhuman goddesses. So did Marion Jones (who, sadly, was inhuman). Plenty of female athletes will make you drop your jaw, either individually or through plain ol' teamwork, which last time I checked was the ostensible point of team sports.
07/29/09
That was supposed to be a link, dammit.
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/jun/23/sports/sp-sparks23
07/29/09
The Williams sisters look like inhuman goddesses, but their serves are still nowhere near as fast as Andy Roddick's. (Which I actually think makes their game more interesting, but not everyone would agree.) With figure skating, you're right about the costumes and stuff of course, but I was actually thinking of pairs skating where the woman can be thrown into these crazy jumps that make you catch your breath.
And really, I wasn't saying that I don't drop my jaw at great teamwork. But I was saying that I think a lot of people want to watch LeBron make a basket from the other side of the court, something that female athletes simply aren't able to do. I guess what I really meant was feats of strength rather than skill.
07/29/09
Awesome!
I do think it's notable, though, that she's only the 2nd woman to do it, while in men's basketball it's routine.
07/29/09
In fact, it's treated like a joke. I was walking past the (very nice and useable, no matter what the NBA team's owner will tell you) arena the other day and some douchey guys from out of town joked, "What happens there? Nothing???"
Actually, jerks, a very successful team plays there, full of athletes with skills and abilities we should all be admiring, not mocking.
07/29/09
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/otl/columns/story?columnist=kreidler_mark&id=4352885
Anyways, it's always going to come down to money. People aren't interested because their sports don't get the exposure that allows them to watch on television, and they don't get the exposure because they're not profitable to broadcast.
It annoys me that soccer doesn't play well in the States but at least I do my part by going to a few Red Bulls games a year. I'll also consider getting season tickets when the new stadium opens. If you want your sports to gain more visibility you have to voice that opinion by spending your own money to watch them.
07/29/09
07/29/09
I'm lucky enough to live in an area with enough of a population to support an interest in MLS, but it does concern me that outside of a few pockets in the US, soccer is largely met with a shrug. The competition isn't up to par with the European game obviously, but it's still a blast to watch and its success is vital for our future World Cup hopes.
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