1. A lot of dads are great at Public Parenting. So whenever you have guests, they're the first to say "Let me clear the table darling" and "No - I'll put the baby to bed" and your guests are practically orgasming at how fantastic your husband is. What they don't know is when it's just you, him and babies, husband is watching telly, picking his nose and ignoring the fact the kids are starving and smell like a pigsty.

2. The stuff that mums do isn't (again) Public Stuff. A guy will say "Look - I put that shelf up" or "I cooked dinner" (never mind that the kitchen looked like the Seige of Stalingrad afterwards - that's just him being 'creative') But you remembering the Kids PE kit or their dental appointments - well you don't get kudos for that because it's not tangible - it's just this never ending series of thankless tasks. And never mind kudos, half the time you don't even get a thankyou.

3. You've done a full days work, remembered the dry cleaning, cleaned up the kitchen from breakfast and bathed the kids. He cooks dinner and leaves a right mess. You say, "I'll put the kids to bed. Will you clean up?" "But I cooked" he whines.

And you wonder why we're so angry??????

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I nanny all day. I was there during 3 AM feedings. I love to play and cuddle and kiss her chubby cheeks. I even think changing diapers is kind of fun. She is the joy of my life, I couldn't imagine what life would be like without her...but now I don't want kids of my own.

I know the responsibility and the selflessness having kids takes, and I'm not sure I'll have that. For now, I'm content with the tiny dancer, and since I KNOW what it would be like to have a child, I don't have to wonder "What if..." or think that I want kids just because my clock is ticking too loud for me to hear anything else.

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Seriously.

I've never wanted children and this is simply one of the fifty eleven reasons why. I don't want life to be a constant struggle of negotiations at home. Negotiating with the little munchkin to get him/her to do what I say, negotiating with the hubby and constantly "nagging" (that's how most men see this type of communication) him to take on more parental responsibility...sorry I don't want a home life that resembles any of that.

Constant struggles, no thank you.

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I suggest putting every task that has to be done into iCal or Outlook and asking the spouse if they have any preference over which *half* they will do.

This task would take about the same amount of time that one would spend ranting over the phone to an outside party.

Why use the old model of slow burn and sulk, with all of its dire and real health risks, when logic and technology (things men love) are waiting to bail you out.

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There is a cultural expectation that women will do housework, but I don't think that is the only problem. I've seen a lot of newly married friends bust totally into Susie Homemaker and then get annoyed 6 months down the line that he never does dishes. They expect he'll do his share and pick up her slack every now and then, while the guy is thinking "Awesome, she likes cleaning!" Some people really need to lay out their expectations more clearly. Maybe everyone should just have a job rather than expecting it will just work out. She cooks, he cleans the kitchen, she does laundry, he cleans the bathroom. And maybe if he doesn't hold up his end of the bargain he doesn't get dinner or a clean shirt.

Then there is the idea that traditionally male chores like checking the oil and shoveling the drive equal traditionally female ones like cooking and cleaning. They don't, they don't come anywhere close.

There is also a male cultural idea that getting one over on the other person is okay. Kind of a jokey thing, no biggie. Then he is shocked when he is served with divorce papers. Some women try and try to communicate, but the guy is totally unwilling to see what a big deal it is until she's out the door.

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Have any of these mothers discussed having children with thier husbands/significant other BEFORE becoming pregnant/mutually agreeing to keep/have the baby?

I ask because sometimes, again, this is simply an observation, I see many men who truly, really did not really want children but felt obliged, pressured by wife, girlfriend/family/society to go along, that-is- what-you-do and just have resign themselves to the situation. I know, I know, tough to bad for the men, huh? I ado agree. They do need to buck up. Or , just say, I love you and want to spend th erest of my life with you, but no, I do not, nor have I ever wanted children.

That is what we did. I never wanted children. I met met a great, great man 12 years ago,m after bieng together for a couple of months, I knew he was the ONE. I told him one night, at dinner, that I loved him ( he said..I do too..), wanted/hoped we would be together forever and..........that I did not want children nor woudl I ever. Well, let me tell you, his shoulders tensed down, he was reeeeeeeelieved. He did not want children either!! Cats ...that is another story ( we have three..) Ops..there goes another fur ball. hey! Who between us will pick that up?

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*My definition of "basic equality" includes, but is not limited to: equal pay, equal rights (still working on those two!), equal time put in on: housework, emotional/relationship work, childcare, remembering things --that is, it's not equal housework if the lady tells you to do 50% of the work and then tells you how to do it, and then you do all of it. Because if she's telling you to do it, and how, then it's actually not fucking equal, ok? Every time my father told me to call my mother WHILE SHE WAS AT WORK, WHICH WAS THE BUSINESS SHE OWNED, to ask what he should make us for dinner, it was fucked up. Every time my mother got angry when he didn't was (less) fucked up. Less because he would do things like ignore the defrosting piece of meat she put out for dinner (more work for her) to go buy shit to make dinner, when we were POOR.

Ahhh it's shit like this that make me hate hate hate men. Seriously, folks. I do. I hate them. Not all of them, but like, Men. With a capital M. I love my boyfriend, but the fact that even he, a man who wooed me by talking gender-theory, is exempt from the way Men are totally socialized to be GIANT FUCKING BABIES. GOD.GROW UP. Just like Lauryn Hill says, "stop acting like boys and be men."

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My husband acts like he's doing me a huge favor when he does anything around the house, and, frankly, he does extremely little. He's a good dad, he's a good person, but he's not interested in any kind of equitable distribution of household responsibilities. And yes, I've talked to him about this. Respectfully, calmly, over and over. We communicate pretty well about other things, we have a lot of sex, we enjoy one another's company, and it's not like I run around mad at him all the time. But I take care of our son, work part time, go to school part time, and do everything around the house. It's overwhelming, and when I think about it (like, say, now) it does make me angry. Otherwise, I don't really think about it, because there's not a lot that can give. (Vegan snacks? Valentines? Try remembering to pay bills and to feed the kid. We're talking about basic, low-level, minimal functioning here.)

I just feel like I got blindsided. My dad helps around the house, my FIL helps around the house and my husband used to help, before our son was born. I never expected to have to beg my partner to be a partner.

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My husband is kind & gentle. He waits on me hand an foot. I don't need that though. I need a partner.

I don't need him to do the laundry and dishes and cook supper. I NEED him to stop waiting on our boys hand and foot.I need him to get a backbone. I need him to support me when I do ask something of them and he just sites there or walks away to let me handle it but then turns around and ignores it when they disregard what I ask. I need him to not go outside and rake leaves on Saturday when every week for months I've been asking that we all get up and do the chores and then have the rest of the day to chill out. 3 Saturdays ago he sat on the sofa with the 13 & 15 year olds watching movies while I cleaned. I asked for a divorce.He said last week he would help make changes. He said this time he would make a list of chores and make sure the boys followed through. No list yet. No changes.

My dad raised me after my mother left with the help of my grandparents. With both of his future wives they would get mad because my dad did nothing around the house. He would always yell back, "If you need something done just ask me Baby."

That's not good enough. It's not acceptable. No one should have to ask their partner to do the basics and the obvious. No one should have to ask their partner to stop going to the store a million times because they are to dull to sit down and think and make a list. No one should have to remind their partner of the very important appointment for which the doors lock at 7:30

over and over again but at 7:25 the partner is still putting on his socks and laughing at the TV. No one should have write instructions on how to buy shoes for a teenager. If I have to return shoes and reshop

because Daddy is too damn stupid to buy sneakers there's a problem. What the hell is a 13 year old 6' boy supposed to do with dress shoes for school?! He's in gym dumbass. He needs tennis shoes. It's not

like there are a lot of size 14s to pick from at Wal-Mart. There are no sandals, slippers, or water shoes available in a men's size fucking 14. There's dress shoes and tennis shoes and usually only about two pairs of each to chose from. Pick the ones he can use every day and get the hell out of the store. Sigh...

My husband used to intimidate me because he had an education and military experience. I was so in love with him for his gentleness and passion. Now I know my husband is not very smart. I thought I could over look it and take care of him. But after 17 years I've

realized I can't. I'm not that strong. I'm not that smart. I will will self medicate or leave or both. Since I threw everything out moving will be easier. Hopefully if I take the youngest two out of this situation and they have to be responsible for themselves to a greater degree they will be stronger people. I just can't continue to be responsible

for someone else responsibilities and be responsible for my own fucking orgasm too.

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i guess i just wanted to throw it out there that there ARE fair & equal marriages, and i'm the well-adjusted product of one.

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