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An Abridged History Of The Imagery Of The Human Embryo

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TurtleSpeak
04/22/09

In reply to An Abridged History Of The Imagery Of The Human Embryo
This was a fascinating story.

I'm not surprised that it's not of a living fetus. It's creepy looking though.

Also I really don't care at all what a fetus looks like at whatever week in a pregnancy. It could have fingernails, a big bright smile, a favorite band and a cute little hairdo and it wouldn't phase me. I'd still want the woman who was housing it be able to abort it safely and legally if she wanted.

All of the gross details of abortion... meh, it's not pretty, and duh the fetus will have hands, and lips, and fingernails and stuff (depending on the stage of development) and it'll probably come out all mashed up and in pieces in a bloody mess but that's really not the point.
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whynotshesaid
04/22/09

In reply to An Abridged History Of The Imagery Of The Human Embryo
I'm kind of surprised that so many commenters are shocked to know that a fetus looks so much like a baby. I mean, it's not like it looks like a tadpole until the moment before the woman gives birth.

Also I'm not really surprised that there are some ethical issues surrounding this groundbreaking piece of documentation. The history of medicine is littered with bits of information like this. Let's just say people weren't robbing graves for sport back in the day.
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Samanthrax
04/22/09

In reply to An Abridged History Of The Imagery Of The Human Embryo
If you ever get a chance to see the "Bodies" exhibit, it has a fascinating fetal development display. It's amazing.
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Majrhoulihan
04/22/09

@Samanthrax is Sarcastic: I saw the Bodies exhibit. The fetus room actually gave me a "wow, isn't human life amazing?" feeling.
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LaComtesse
04/22/09

@Samanthrax is Sarcastic: IT WAS SO COOL!!!! They were eerie little people! I really enjoyed the exhibit as a whole, but the "fetus room" was the most interesting to me.
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spunkay
04/22/09

@Samanthrax is Sarcastic: I was an undergraduate student at my conservative Christian school when that was in my area. Our school had an uproar of biblical proportions (heh), I think because it was "mocking the sanctity of human life". I couldn't understand how people, even if they found it creepy, wouldn't be fascinated by the human body. I wish I would have gotten to see it.
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prestocaro fears the culling
04/22/09

@spunkay: That seems so weird to me -- when I was leaving the exhibit I remember looking around and feeling like we are all so lucky, that we have all these parts that work together so that we can live our lives. It definitely didn't strike me as a mockery at all. But I'm not religious.

OK, the one with the guy holding his skin freaked me the fuck out. Did anyone notice how weird the soles of his feet looked?!
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valley of unrest ( i say fuck shoes! + periods. )
04/22/09

@Samanthrax is Sarcastic: I was hoping to see it when I was in Vegas last October, but I'm definitely going if it is still there when I go this September.

@PersonalBest: Do you know what cities are censored by any chance?
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PersonalBest
04/22/09

@valley.of.unrest: I'm not sure, I'm just going on personal anecdotes here. I think that particular room was taken out of the Vancouver exhibit because it was shown at a kid-themed science museum and was maybe deemed too upsetting (even at the New York exhibit, there was a warning sign posted before entering the room). Maybe it depends on the venue. This is pure speculation, though.
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prestocaro fears the culling
04/22/09

@PersonalBest: But you know, it might also have to do with the space available. Because the 2 museums I've seen it at both had enough room for a draped "room" to conceal the exhibit. I'm a nerd, I saw it in Chicago and then later in Houston.
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Cattivella
04/22/09

In reply to An Abridged History Of The Imagery Of The Human Embryo
Yea, the idea that the picture is an aborted fetus is more sad and I think helps the pro-life argument because of how much like a full grown baby it looks.

Also, to play devil's advocate on the idea of "quickening" - using beliefs held hundreds of years ago to support current beliefs isn't a good argument. After all, hundreds of years ago people believed that the earth was flat, that blood letting was a valid form of medicine, and that women were all around inferior beings to men.
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SunburnedCounsel
04/22/09

@Cattivella: Sure fetuses can "look" like an infant, but they're not developed like one. Lungs, brain, etc. aren't useful or human yet.
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MJ
04/22/09

In reply to An Abridged History Of The Imagery Of The Human Embryo
Oh.

It breaks my heart that that photo is of a dead infant.

I wish I didn't know that.
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LaComtesse
04/22/09

@MJ: Fetus, not infant. It was never born.
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LaComtesse
04/22/09

In reply to An Abridged History Of The Imagery Of The Human Embryo
Would you say Nilsson felt a FETAL attraction to this line of work? Or did his editor make him take the pictures and if he hadn't he would have been embryonic sacked?
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ionu
04/22/09

In reply to An Abridged History Of The Imagery Of The Human Embryo
Awww, some feel sorry for the aborted fetus in the picture.I for one feel nothing for the fetus, but I am glad the women who aborted had a choice.
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HannahBethD
04/22/09

@ionu: This. Thank you. I could care less if it has fingernails and looks human.

All of this is making me think a lot of people really didn't thoroughly research the different aspects of abortion before signing on to support it.

That said, I do support it, no matter gross or uncomfortable the imagery makes us feel.
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Spritie
04/22/09

In reply to An Abridged History Of The Imagery Of The Human Embryo
I live right around the corner from a "pregnancy crisis centre" it makes me cranky every time i walk by.

If you have to lie and provide misinformation to support your cause, then you have already lost your argument.
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lalaland13
04/22/09

@Spritie: Yes. This. This article made a really good point about how why are these people allowed to pass themselves off as providing medical services?

[www.pasadenaweekly.com]

In college, I lived down the street from one of those anti-abortion billboards, and ugh. Plus the local paper seemed to be firmly in the "crisis pregnancy center's" pocket as they did stories all the time about what a great place it was and how they were helping people and such.

Although on the flip side, a friend said he knew a girl who wasn't even considering abortion, but she just went there because she knew they would give her free stuff. I sort of admire that view.
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scullymurphy
04/22/09

In reply to An Abridged History Of The Imagery Of The Human Embryo
Fascinating that anti-abortion laws have primarily economic, and not moral, underpinnings. The anti-abortion crowd has been so successful in making abortion a moral issue we tend to think it always has been.
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musicpup
04/22/09

In reply to An Abridged History Of The Imagery Of The Human Embryo
I was aware of the fact that all images of fetii - unless made with ultra sound - are of dead/aborted specimen. How else would you get the nice black background, the lighting, etc. to work out just so? It IS fascinating to think that abortion used to be far more acceptable, though. Huh.
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jfwlucy
04/22/09

In reply to An Abridged History Of The Imagery Of The Human Embryo
I always imagined that they had stuck a tiny camera into a pregnant woman's belly, until my mom pointed out to me (I was sick) that women generally do not have strategic keylights and spotlights inside the uterus.
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colormeroutine
04/22/09

@jfwlucy: You don't? Personally I've got an entire mini stage up in there, complete with costume department
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debo matar la zombi goldberry83
04/22/09

@colormeroutine: Hey, me too! What's the point of (eventually) having kids, if they can't throw on a tophat and tails and do a tap routine to "Putting on the Ritz" while they're in there?
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Pizza!Pizza!Pizza!
04/22/09

In reply to An Abridged History Of The Imagery Of The Human Embryo
The pre-baby in Massive Attack's video is really dancing away though, right? I can't have all my fetal illusions dashe din one day.

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prettycool
04/22/09

@HeatherNumber1: I used to draw tap dancing fetuses day and night in middle school after I heard the lyric from T. Rex- "I danced myself right out the womb."
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pandorasmittens
04/22/09

In reply to An Abridged History Of The Imagery Of The Human Embryo
This stuff pisses me off to no end. Alleged "Crisis Pregnancy Centers" have been using photography like this for YEARS to scare women away from abortions. Most of the imagery that the pro-life movement uses is doctored-ESPECIALLY the images on protest signs.

And it's infuriating, because I cannot fathom how a movement can in large professes to know and value the absolute "truth" would be so dead set on inhibiting the discovery of scientific truth as we know it*. This extends not only to doctored fetuses, but to schools that teach that we coexisted with dinosaurs when there is evidence of natural selection all around us, to churches who condemn homosexuals as troubled youth instead of individuals that we are increasingly finding, really were born with their feelings, and to organizations so afraid of female power that they were willing to spew hundreds of years of lies in order to continually subjugate half of the population.

*and by this, I am referring to the fundamentalist wings of the pro-life movement, not to the many rational individuals who would advocate to choose life.

/rant
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elitza owns the last Enzo shirt
04/22/09

@pandorasmittens: Amen, sister friend.
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pandorasmittens
04/22/09

@pandorasmittens: *THAT in large. Ahem. I am drinking the rageohol today.
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MissyMcCLung
04/22/09

@pandorasmittens: Are there any reasons, other than religious, not to allow women the right to choose?
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pandorasmittens
04/22/09

@MissyMcCLung: I should have worded it like "would choose life".

I honestly do think that there are people who believe that abortion is murder, period, and that is a sentiment that could come from religious or non religious alike. Mainly what I was referring to was the notion that someone could say "I believe abortion is murder and would not do it, an would look down upon my children if they did it" but still understand that their own example is not the sole example. Technically, this DOES make them pro-choice, but not everyone on that side of the argument makes that distinction.

@spunkay: There will be no friendship on this site today!
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MerryLilly
04/22/09

@pandorasmittens: "and by this, I am referring to the fundamentalist wings of the pro-life movement, not to the many rational individuals who would advocate to choose life."

WIN! and thanks

There're many pro-choicers that choose life, i.e., those people who believe there's life from the beginning, but understand other people may think differently. After all, no one really knows what life is and when it does really start.
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RainyKate
04/22/09

In reply to An Abridged History Of The Imagery Of The Human Embryo
I often see versions of the pictures covered in blood, claiming to be the results of an abortion.

Then I get told to stop preventing patients from "getting help" and want to come home and take a 2 hour nap.

That's been my day in a nutshell, actually.
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veronykah
04/22/09

@RainyKate: I always find it amusing how photos of a surgical procedure are shown as an example of how gross and horrible having an abortion is.

Pretty sure if you showed images of ANY surgery, its not pretty.
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Cerridwen
04/22/09

@veronykah: Yeah, if you saw the "results" of my appendectomy, you would see my abdomen sliced open, my guts on display and an organ being extracted from the bloody depths of said guts. Pretty? No. Gruesome? Yes. Also? Life-saving.
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MerryLilly
04/22/09

In reply to An Abridged History Of The Imagery Of The Human Embryo
So, before the Enlightenment period the only reliable sign of actual pregnancy was when the fetus started to move. That makes sense, because there was no other way to know.

But know that we know so much thanks to science, when does life start? What is that limit when abortion becomes actually a murder?
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schweppes
04/22/09

@MerryLilly: Yeah, I never really understood the relevancy of bringing "quickening" into the discussion when we have a lot of more accurate ways to determine if a woman is pregnant.
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MerryLilly
04/22/09

@schweppes: They are just saying "quickening" was used back then when we didn't have those more accurate ways we have today.
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RainyKate
04/22/09

@MerryLilly: I don't have an answer to this, but I know that some people feel that as long as the fetus needs its mother to support its life, then abortion is not murder. It's not a very scientific answer, I know, but I don't know that there is one, despite all we know now.
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MerryLilly
04/22/09

@RainyKate: Yeah, I guess the answer varies widely from person to person, but I've always been curious about what could be the dominant answer.
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schweppes
04/22/09

@MerryLilly: Yeah, I think I was thinking more of arbitrary "cut-offs" for the legality/illegality of abortions that are sometimes centered on quickening, or the weeks when quickening is most likely.
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morninggloria
04/22/09

@schweppes: They're not arbitrary; they're based on when a fetus would be capable of theoretically sustaining itself outside of the womb: 24.5 to 25 weeks.
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