I sometimes wish for a device that allowed face-punching through the internet. If I had it, I'm pretty sure that terrible things would come of it, and I would no longer desire it, but god.
No sex =/= no relationship, you stupid fucking moron. Does this mean all of my relationships were invalid? Of course. Of course, there was no relationship because we didn't fuck. Thanks for clearing that up! Whew, it's good to know that I've never had a boyfriend or girlfriend, and I had better let the one I'm dating (whoops! Having a friendship with!) know that he's not really my partner! Thanks, Internet!
For some of us, sex isn't easy. For some of us, it's not desirable. And you know what? We don't deserve to be lambasted and be told how worthless our relationships are because we don't have sex in them. Don't you think this woman has enough to sort through? Respect her! For fuck's sake, have some compassion! She's reaching out to help someone else understand how awful it can be (likening it to a "ghost" that she's lugging around doesn't sound like anything that anyone would want).
There are some very kind, understanding and compassionate comments on the BoingBoing thread, and I really appreciate the number of people that stood up for her and basically told the rest to fuck off.
@boxspelunker: I hear you, and people absolutely need more compassion for situations like these.
But on the other hand, this is an extreme version of something that a LOT of people face: a physical (or mental) condition that impacts your sex life.
My wife has Crohn's and I've got a nice little rollercoaster of depression going on sometimes, and both of those conditions HAVE to be part of the conversation when it comes to our sex life.
Compassion is great and helpful, but you reach a point where you have to accept your situation and deal with it, rather than giving explanations (or excuses) for why you've got to be handled more delicately than the rest of the human race.
@boxspelunker: The Internet is really just the Voice of The Crowd. Reading the articles with any kind of empathy, these kinds of comments wouldn't exist. These comments are like graffiti in bathroom stalls, useless vandalism that exist only for those who cannot face their own dysfunction, and must hide in the anonymity of the mob.
@AndPreciousLittleofThat: I guess I don't really understand what you're saying in response to me. From my standpoint, it kinda looks like you're telling me to stop being a victim, but I could be reading that entirely wrong.
I'm not asking for people to treat me like a delicate flower. Not outright mocking me would be a nice start for most situation.
@Jack_Burton: Ah, I know. Never read the comments :) I guess because I've had that discussion so many times, and with no real success in many situations, it gets to me. I don't like the situation I'm in, but I don't know how to fix it.
It really upsets me that this condition is being added to the DSM as a psychological condition - maybe psychology plays a role (although it's not too much of a stretch to suggest that PGAD could give you depression or panic attacks), but by labeling a condition that is so poorly understood as a mental disorder we're not going to look for physical treatments. Instead, therapists are going to take the "it's all in your head/you're repressed" etc approach, which may be true for some women but is an insulting assumption for all. Just one more way we devalue women's (medical) experiences in favor of "expert" opinions
@susanstohelit: That's actually completely wrong on every level. The DSM and Psychology/Psychiatry as a whole right now in Western cultures is all about mental disorders having physical causes that need treatment. It's actually one of the things that's wrong with those fields right now. I am not saying all psychologists and psychiatrists think that way, because there is definitely a movement to change it, but the truth is, many people do *not* get the help they need *because* of the mental=physical assumption.
With this being added to the DSM, it actually will further treatment for the physical problem. You cannot bill insurence or even "diagnose" someone with something unless it's in the DSM, which means drug companies and other people in the field have no incentive to research the disease or disorder.
So it being added to the DSM will most likely help these people.
God, those comments were terrible. I thought about responding to them yesterday but then I realized it was futile.
I used to have sexual problems when I was younger, and I remember having incredible anxiety about why a guy would stay with me if I couldn't have sex. These comments are the worst examples of people who can't understand the complexities of a relationship. These are the same guys who complain about their "nagging wives" over beers with their buddies, then cheat with much younger women during their mid-life crises. Cliche, ignorant, and unforgivable.
@rixatrix: I'm still having sexual/intimacy issues, and it's one of the stickpins on my futurechair, here. I have a partner that loves me, I know he does, but he's also been upfront that he cannot have a celibate relationship forever. He's never pressured me in any way, and I understand why he may eventually leave, but it's a deep fear that I will end up alone because I will have no close friends (people leave to build their own families and no longer have time for close, intimate friendships) and no one will be able to stay with me.
It's not fair. I wish no one would look down on this woman. This shit is hard enough as it is without other people's ignorant, cruel judgment.
@boxspelunker: What I wanted to say in the comments was that she doesn't even mention her sexual history with her boyfriend, because it's none of anyone's GD business. The comments criticize her for not performing oral or anal sex, but she doesn't say she doesn't, she just leaves it out. Apparently not disclosing EVERYTHING is enough to warrant criticism.
I wish people would understand that this woman is probably harder on herself about her disorder than anyone else could possibly be. Also, her boyfriend obviously knows what's going on, and it's entirely possible he has issues of his own that complement hers. And again, it's just no one's business.
It would be awful to have to deal with all he psychological issues that this condition brought with it, let alone the physical. A friend's husband hugs you? A family member, like happened to her? Awful.
These obnoxious comments: from the douchebags who brought you such other enlightened insights as "If you have an orgasm while your being raped can you call it rape?"
But the question raised about the girl's boyfriend is, I think, a valid one. She doesn't say how HE feels about the relationship, but I for one would be interested to hear how this affects him. I'd imagine this kind of thing could be a real self-confidence killer.
@AndPreciousLittleofThat: Obviously he's been in this relationship with her for six years, though. If he wasn't okay with it, he probably would have left. Not everyone has the same sexual needs. For some people love trumps sex. I don't think the questions raised are valid purely because we can't assume that all men need sex the way we're told they do. And if he does crave it, the fact that he's willing to sacrifice sex to support her and their relationship is kind of a positive thing. The idea that a romantic relationships require sex isn't true for everyone.
@thoughtthinker: "And if he does crave it, the fact that he's willing to sacrifice sex to support her and their relationship is kind of a positive thing."
Maybe. Not so positive if he eventually becomes bitter about it or makes her feel guilty about it. (I've perhaps read too many Savage Love columns involving unequal sex drive issues)
@cate3710: I think it depends on where the support is coming from. I think there are those with a genuine ability to forego their own wants to support another. If he becomes bitter, that's his shit and the support was maybe not no genuine, not the choice he wanted to make. Someone willing to deal with that, with no end in sight, and keep an honest, open communication about it might not bitter.
I'm in a relationship with unequal sex drives. I want it always, he wants it close to never. But I love him and I'm good at making myself come, and we have other ways of being physically intimate.
I think sometimes when we try to be sex positive, we make sex out to be something impossible to be without, and we look down sometimes on those who can deal with not having it, or for whom it's lower down on the totem pole of needs (not saying that's what you're doing, at all!!). I think it's important to remember that part of sex positivity is not assuming and judging other people's drives and willingness to abstain. That's why I don't think it's fair to question his status as boyfriend or how okay he is with the situation.
@cate3710: That's what I was trying to get at. It feels like there may be an unequal balance of agency in their sex life. When one partner always sets the rules, it can set up an ultimately unhealthy dynamic.
@FrannyR: Apparently sometimes anti-depressants can help with the disorder, but I don't know if that's why. It seems too simplistic - these orgasms aren't related to sexual activity or even desire, so would sex drive even be relevant here?
@cate3710: I'm not surprised that SSRI's help in some cases -- I think sometimes they can actually mess with the neurological pathways that lead to arousal, not just mental desire and/or sex drive. Apparently the BoingBoing writer is not on them, but they helped some women in the MSNBC article.
@cate3710: Because for many it's near impossible to get physically aroused when they are on SSRI's, even if they want to have sex. And if they managed to get aroused enough to have sex, they can't orgasm no matter what. It's not related to desire either, the ability is just gone. Not for all, and for most this passes after a few months, but it could provide some relief for ppl with PGAD
"triggers - things like music with heavy bass, vibrations from riding a train or an idle car, cold air, musky cologne, darkness, stress, scary movies, romantic movies, unexpected touch, a full bladder"
Dollars to donuts some intern at Men's Health is writing up a complete misinterpretation of this as an advice piece right now.
I guess the Grey's Anatomy episode in which - I think - this condition was so extremely unprofessionally treated, did not help it being taken more seriously.
I really hated that one. How can someone seriously think this is desireble? (But of course it was understood as soon as the argument came "But I also have in in church!" Any other public space or in front of your family = totally fine. No?)
Jeez, poor woman. I thought it was awful having a hard-on all the time at 14. Eventually I had the fortunate of growing up. I can't imagine her pain dealing with that.
I feel awkward enough when a boy on the bus catches me ogling him. If the vibration of the bus exacerbated the issue, I would probably never leave my house for shame.
Our letter and reply about Paxil-- and other SSRI antidepressant therapies-- initiated so much discussion, that I opened up a new thread on my personal blog.
The comments, especially, have been eye-opening to me.
10/13/09
No sex =/= no relationship, you stupid fucking moron. Does this mean all of my relationships were invalid? Of course. Of course, there was no relationship because we didn't fuck. Thanks for clearing that up! Whew, it's good to know that I've never had a boyfriend or girlfriend, and I had better let the one I'm dating (whoops! Having a friendship with!) know that he's not really my partner! Thanks, Internet!
For some of us, sex isn't easy. For some of us, it's not desirable. And you know what? We don't deserve to be lambasted and be told how worthless our relationships are because we don't have sex in them. Don't you think this woman has enough to sort through? Respect her! For fuck's sake, have some compassion! She's reaching out to help someone else understand how awful it can be (likening it to a "ghost" that she's lugging around doesn't sound like anything that anyone would want).
There are some very kind, understanding and compassionate comments on the BoingBoing thread, and I really appreciate the number of people that stood up for her and basically told the rest to fuck off.
/end angry, bitter, too-close-for-comfort rant.
10/13/09
But on the other hand, this is an extreme version of something that a LOT of people face: a physical (or mental) condition that impacts your sex life.
My wife has Crohn's and I've got a nice little rollercoaster of depression going on sometimes, and both of those conditions HAVE to be part of the conversation when it comes to our sex life.
Compassion is great and helpful, but you reach a point where you have to accept your situation and deal with it, rather than giving explanations (or excuses) for why you've got to be handled more delicately than the rest of the human race.
10/13/09
10/14/09
I'm not asking for people to treat me like a delicate flower. Not outright mocking me would be a nice start for most situation.
@Jack_Burton: Ah, I know. Never read the comments :) I guess because I've had that discussion so many times, and with no real success in many situations, it gets to me. I don't like the situation I'm in, but I don't know how to fix it.
10/14/09
10/13/09
10/13/09
10/13/09
10/13/09
With this being added to the DSM, it actually will further treatment for the physical problem. You cannot bill insurence or even "diagnose" someone with something unless it's in the DSM, which means drug companies and other people in the field have no incentive to research the disease or disorder.
So it being added to the DSM will most likely help these people.
10/13/09
(Sorry. Had to. That does suck an awful lot though.)
10/13/09
I used to have sexual problems when I was younger, and I remember having incredible anxiety about why a guy would stay with me if I couldn't have sex. These comments are the worst examples of people who can't understand the complexities of a relationship. These are the same guys who complain about their "nagging wives" over beers with their buddies, then cheat with much younger women during their mid-life crises. Cliche, ignorant, and unforgivable.
10/13/09
It's not fair. I wish no one would look down on this woman. This shit is hard enough as it is without other people's ignorant, cruel judgment.
10/13/09
I wish people would understand that this woman is probably harder on herself about her disorder than anyone else could possibly be. Also, her boyfriend obviously knows what's going on, and it's entirely possible he has issues of his own that complement hers. And again, it's just no one's business.
10/13/09
10/13/09
10/13/09
But the question raised about the girl's boyfriend is, I think, a valid one. She doesn't say how HE feels about the relationship, but I for one would be interested to hear how this affects him. I'd imagine this kind of thing could be a real self-confidence killer.
10/13/09
10/13/09
Maybe. Not so positive if he eventually becomes bitter about it or makes her feel guilty about it. (I've perhaps read too many Savage Love columns involving unequal sex drive issues)
10/13/09
I'm in a relationship with unequal sex drives. I want it always, he wants it close to never. But I love him and I'm good at making myself come, and we have other ways of being physically intimate.
I think sometimes when we try to be sex positive, we make sex out to be something impossible to be without, and we look down sometimes on those who can deal with not having it, or for whom it's lower down on the totem pole of needs (not saying that's what you're doing, at all!!). I think it's important to remember that part of sex positivity is not assuming and judging other people's drives and willingness to abstain. That's why I don't think it's fair to question his status as boyfriend or how okay he is with the situation.
10/13/09
10/13/09
10/13/09
10/13/09
10/13/09
10/13/09
10/13/09
10/13/09
Dollars to donuts some intern at Men's Health is writing up a complete misinterpretation of this as an advice piece right now.
10/13/09
I really hated that one. How can someone seriously think this is desireble? (But of course it was understood as soon as the argument came "But I also have in in church!" Any other public space or in front of your family = totally fine. No?)
10/13/09
If I ever found myself injured or ill in Fake Seattle, I'd demand to be taken anywhere besides Seattle Grace Hospital.
10/13/09
10/13/09
10/13/09
09/25/09
The comments, especially, have been eye-opening to me.
Here's the link: [bit.ly]
If you've been affected by mental health issues and treatments in your family or personal life, you'll find a lot to chew on.
Susie