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L'Chaim! Woman Becomes First African-American Female Rabbi
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stoprobbers
05/22/09

In reply to L'Chaim! Woman Becomes First African-American Female Rabbi
Mazel Tov! This is wonderful.

Also: REFORM JEWS RULE!

(That's just my reform pride peekin' through...)
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SomeAuthorGirl
05/22/09

@stoprobbers: I am coming to this so late also, but yay!

My congregation has people of all races, I feel so fortunate to have grown up that way.

I want to move to Greenville now, though!
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dj_chick
05/22/09

In reply to L'Chaim! Woman Becomes First African-American Female Rabbi
I converted a few years ago, and believe me, it's not easy for anyone. With my very Scottish surname, I always get a bit of a look from born-Jews. And quips from my friends about my not being a real Jew are more common than they should be. I've very happy for and proud of almost-Rabbi Stanton. I wonder where she'll end up? I'd love to hear her give a sermon sometime.
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stoprobbers
05/22/09

@dj_chick: The more conservative/orthodox/observant the Jew, the more uppity they can get. But fuck that. As far as my Reform 100% genetically Jewish ass is concerned, we can and will take anyone we can get!

Mazel Tov on your conversion, and welcome the cockroach religion!
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SomeAuthorGirl
05/22/09

@dj_chick: Well, allow me to be another person to give you a Mazel Tov and huge hugs.
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Sister Toldja
05/22/09

In reply to L'Chaim! Woman Becomes First African-American Female Rabbi
Shabbat shalom, sista!
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ellaesther
05/22/09

In reply to L'Chaim! Woman Becomes First African-American Female Rabbi
Oooh, and also! Delightfully odd little factoid:

The rabbi of Chicago's Beth Shalom B'nai Zaken Ethiopian Hebrew Congregation, Rabbi Capers C. Funnye (to which I can only say: Really? That's quite a name!) is Michelle Obama's cousin.

For real!

[www.jewishjournal.com]

[www.nytimes.com]
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ellaesther
05/22/09

In reply to L'Chaim! Woman Becomes First African-American Female Rabbi
The fact that she got a standing O from her mother's choir just gave me the chills! That's just lovely!

Sadie, one semantic quibble, one that I struggle with myself after 14 years in Israel, where the synagogue everyone doesn't go to is Orthodox: Let's not say "more religious," let's say "more traditional." I have a feeling that almost-Rabbi Stanton and other female rabbis are very religious -- they're just not terribly traditional. Orthodoxy has no monopoly on faith or religiousity.
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samethingwedoeverynightpinky
05/22/09

In reply to L'Chaim! Woman Becomes First African-American Female Rabbi
I'm always fascinated by people who convert to a new religion later in life. It seems like such a brave thing to do, and I always wonder how people come to it. I know a lot of people, myself included, who have "convereted" to agnosticism or atheism or just generally let their religious affiliation lapse, but I've never met in person anyone who changed from one major religion to another. I guess at this point in my life I have trouble wrapping my head around the concept of faith in general, so to have enough faith in the certainty of a religion to seek it out and go through a conversion process seems like a really unique thing. Though judging by how many jezzies are in he middle of conversion, maybe it's not as unique as I thought?
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clevernamehere
05/22/09

@samethingwedoeverynightpinky: I don't think it is all that unusual. I've known people while they converted to Judaism, LDS (Mormon), Catholicism and born again (Evangelical).

Conversion is really interesting. Everyone I've asked had some kind of trigger, someone in their life who kind of inspired the process. Coverts do tend to be the most hardcore, but a lot of the converts I know have kind of left the faith they converted to.
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ichigo18
05/22/09

In reply to L'Chaim! Woman Becomes First African-American Female Rabbi
Can anyone explain to me why churches won't let women become rabbis, priests, or whatever? I never understood this, a woman of God can serve just as well as a man. When it comes to sunday school and a lot of church events women are the ones teaching and leading the events anyway, so why not let them have a big part in the church?
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Laulau
05/22/09

@ichigo18: In both Judaism and Catholicism, the argument is largely from tradition. Religious leaders have always been men, and religious texts only define leaders as men. At least in Catholicism, I know there is also a sort of "natural law" argument - men are fathers and leaders of family (whether biological or religious), and women have their natural role (mothers or nuns).

The real reason? Sexism.
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MizJenkins
05/22/09

@Laulau: @Cellotape: Saying that the "real reason" is sexism is oversimplifying things a bit.

The original reason was primarily division of labor. It's very easy for us to stand on a feminist high-horse with all our modern medicine and conveniences, but birthing and raising healthy babies was some pretty time and labor intesive shit back in the day. Who was going to do that and go to the church/temple all day and squabble over spiritual law vs. secular law?

I mean, it's 25 AD, you've got two nursing infants, no breast pump, no antibiotics, no Zoloft...yes you're too emotional and weak to take on another job! And I don't know if there are any Pastors or Rabbis here to back me up, but being the leader of an entire congregation is not easy work.

I guess we can argue about how much of that is still true today, but most denominations other than the Catholic Church have figured out that it's doable and given women the green light.
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Laulau
05/22/09

@MizJenkins: I'm sorry, I don't buy that. You can't breastfeed in the temple? You can't give religious advice from your home? I know a lot of women raising a few children while pursuing some pretty demanding careers, and in many cases, getting f'ing tenure. The exclusion of women from high-status careers until a generation or two ago strikes as sexism, plain and simple.

(Not to mention there have been, historically, religions with female priestesses. So it was clearly feasible.)
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Wibbles
05/22/09

@Laulau: In Judaism, the religious center is supposed to be a home. Women, after all, are closer to God's ideal of spiritual perfection.

After all: "A pious man had been married to a pious woman but, being childless, they were divorced. He then went and married a wicked woman, and she made him wicked. The divorced woman proceeded and married a wicked man and she made a good man out of him. It thus follows that everything depends upon the woman." (Genesis Rabbah 17:7)

Proverbs 31:10-31 is frequently read at weddings, and that is about the ideal woman, which includes (NIV) "She considers a field and buys it; out of her earnings she plants a vineyard." Pretty high praise, yes.
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Laulau
05/22/09

@Wibbles: I'm not sure (in all honestly - no snark here) what I'm supposed to take from that. As I've said before in this venue, I think Judaism does a lot better than many traditional religions w/r/t women. Nonetheless.

The religious center may be a home, but who centered women in the home? Some women may naturally gravitate to that role; many don't but are pushed into it. I don't want to be praised for my gentle ways, or my nurturing aspects, or my ability to prop somebody else up. (As so many religions do.) Why should a woman be responsible for a man's character? I'm an adult, he's an adult, we should each be able to care for ourselves.

I could go on, but I genuinely don't want to be offensive. I just don't see the point in being an apologist for religions that have patted women on the head and told them "but you're so sweet!!" for millennia.
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MizJenkins
05/22/09

@Wibbles: THIS.

@Laulau: I wasn't talking about modern times...we've made it possible for women to do a lot of things outside of the home now. And ancient religions that had priestesses did not have the same type of organizational structure or demand the same things as church leadership in most major organized religions today.

As for sexism...well that's a debate that goes way beyond the scope of this thread but I still think you're over-simplifying. Nothing about it is plain and simple.
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Laulau
05/22/09

@MizJenkins: Okay - I took your original point to be that religions were traditionally patriarchal because women were already occupied by child-bearing and rearing. But then I don't see how "ancient religions that had priestesses did not have the same type of organizational structure or demand the same things as church leadership in most major organized religions today" fits in. The idea that ancient religions could be more mother-friendly, if they chose, seems to go against your division-of-labor rather than sexism claim. If it's possible to have religions that allow for female priestesses, and the leading Western religions do not, that strikes me as the definition of sexism.

Again, I'm certainly not trying to argue that all religion is bad, but certainly the leading religions seem sexist to me.
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lijakaca
05/22/09

@MizJenkins: But (at least in Catholicism) priests are celibate. Nuns are celibate. So why can't nuns be priests?
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topsy
05/22/09

@MizJenkins: At the formation of the Catholic church women were equal. Later on a bunch of monks and other mischief makers spent a lot of time working on changing that. I'm not familiar with Judaism but I am familiar with some Protestant religions (thanks Mom) and none of them seem to beacons on the road to equality.
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topsy
05/22/09

@lijakaca: Cause they're women, silly.
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KiddyKat
05/22/09

In reply to L'Chaim! Woman Becomes First African-American Female Rabbi
This is awesome! I once took a religion class and when the subject of rabbis and "real" Judaism came up, it was on. The Jews in class were up in arms over who was a real Jew (some people said part of the religion was the race and culture, others said at least your mom had to be Jewish, others that there's no such thing as converting to become a Jew). I still don't really know what happened.
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Laulau
05/22/09

@KiddyKat: I'm pretty sure that even the ultra-Orthodox accept conversion, though often with some misgivings. The idea (as I have heard it) is that all of the Jews (past, present, and future) were spiritually present when Moses gave them the laws, and that they were somehow marked (again, spiritually) by the event. So if you convert to Judaism, you were always a Jew, you were just (mistakenly, I guess?) born to a different religion.

Interfaith marriage, on the other hand, is a whole other deal...
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MizJenkins
05/22/09

@Laulau: My understanding is that to be a Jew you have to be bound in covenant with God to abide by the 613 rules (mitzvot) set forth in the Torah that God gave to Moses at Sinai. The Isrealites at Sinai accepted the Torah on the spot, so they're Jews. The Jews who came before presumably would have accepted the Torah, so they're in too. And anybody born after Moses who accepts these rules will be deemed to have accepted them when they were first handed out.

I think the spirit of that was meant to include converts! In fact, I've heard it said that a convert is dearer to God than the Israelites at Sinai because the Israelites had a whole lot of convincing (what with being recently led from slavery through a parted sea and all), but a person who independently pledges to accept the burden/responsiblity of following all those rules is something special.

Eh? How'm I doing Jewzebels? Either way, Mazel Tov Sister Jones!
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deitybox
05/23/09

@MizJenkins: "Jewzebels"? Miz Jenkins, you are awesome.
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QuicheLorraine
05/22/09

In reply to L'Chaim! Woman Becomes First African-American Female Rabbi
Good on her! I love hearing tales of Jews of Color. Anything that can change the mainstream perception that all Jews look and pray like ashkenazim (from Eastern Europe) is always rad in my book.

After my adult bat mitzvah a couple of years ago, I was secretly on fire to do this. But now I wouldn't be the first!
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girlscoutcookie is back from hiatus
05/22/09

@QuicheLorraine: Seriously! I hate having to explain to people that there's no such thing as "looking Jewish" anymore (which I do, often, living as I do in a small town in the South).
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QuicheLorraine
05/22/09

@girlscoutcookie is back from hiatus: It's a secret dream of mine to write a children's book that celebrates the different "faces" of Judaism.

National Geographic has a pretty nice one with photos of children celebrating Hanukkah all over the world.
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girlscoutcookie is back from hiatus
05/22/09

@QuicheLorraine: I would buy that book for my (hypothetical, very far in the future) children. Actually they wouldn't need it, but I would buy it for their friends.

It's just one of those things that bugs me that it still needs to be explained. It should be a no-brainer: Judaism is not an ethnicity. Anyone can be Jewish. You don't have to look like me (I do fit the stereotype pretty well). It goes hand-in-hand with how I have to explain to people that all Jews don't talk like Linda Richman.
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Sputnik_Sweetheart
05/22/09

@QuicheLorraine: Friended! I hate the standard idea of "what a Jew is", especially that we are really insular, clique-ish, and that we make it really difficult for people who want to convert. That has not been my experience with Judaism at all! Most of the communities I have belonged to have been very welcoming!
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latenotnever
05/22/09

@girlscoutcookie is back from hiatus: actually I don't think it's a no-brainer. Yes, anyone can be Jewish or become Jewish. Still, there is a Jewish ethnicity in the sense that Jews were an insular community as far as breeding goes for many years, so there are certain Jewish attributes. This does not mean that if you don't possess these attributes, you are not a Jew. Nonetheless, for many there is a genetic component to their Jewry as well as a cultural one.
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girlscoutcookie is back from hiatus
05/22/09

@latenotnever: It's not the same thing. You can look Eastern-European, which is what people usually mean when they say someone "looks Jewish," but there is no physically ethnic Jewish group, period.
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some obscure reference
05/22/09

@QuicheLorraine: Someone else: "You don't look Jewish."

Me: "Yeah, I can understand how the two eyes, one nose and bipedalism might throw you off."
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Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith
05/23/09

@some obscure reference: Ha, friended for that hilarity!

Also: my cousins are Semitic, and therefore look Arab, and whenever we're together we get the double whammy of 'you don't look Jewish'/'you guys aren't related; you're not even the same colour'. Ah, people.
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PreposterousHypothesis
05/22/09

In reply to L'Chaim! Woman Becomes First African-American Female Rabbi
..."she immediately went to pick her daughter up at the black Pentecostal church where her mother was playing the piano for choir practice. Announcing her achievement, Stanton received a standing ovation from the choir."

That's a lot of awesome right there.
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Trulymadlyme
05/22/09

In reply to L'Chaim! Woman Becomes First African-American Female Rabbi
Isn't there a sizable population of Jews in Ethiopia too? I seem to recall that they had a hard time being able to move to Israel (but the details are fussy). Off to google, I go!
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Trulymadlyme
05/22/09

@Trulymadlyme: Yes!

[en.wikipedia.org]
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deeemer
05/22/09

@Trulymadlyme: Golda Meir was notoriously racist towards the Ethiopian Jews. In my mind, it's a terrible tarnish on a woman I respect so much.
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Lucille van Pelt
05/22/09

@Trulymadlyme: there was a huge govt. assisted relocation of Ethionian Jews to Isreal in the 1990's as fireflyinjuly stated. The govts beliefs have changes drasticaly from golda meir's time. It's a difficult life, but better then many of the options they had in ethiopia.

The interesting thing, though, is that many of them didn't consider themselves "jewish" as we define it today. It was through study of their culture that people realized they were an older for of Judaism, more biblical, which is why they are thought to be the lost tribe.
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clevernamehere
05/22/09

@Trulymadlyme: There is a really good movie about the Ethopian Jews [en.wikipedia.org] though it is strangely half in French.
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topsy
05/22/09

@deeemer: Really? That hurts because I have always admired Meir. What a shame.
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topsy
05/22/09

@Lucille van Pelt: I've heard that these 'transplanted' Ethiopians suffer horrible racism and feel very alienated from other Israelis. Is it still like that?
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Sputnik_Sweetheart
05/22/09

In reply to L'Chaim! Woman Becomes First African-American Female Rabbi
Mazel Tov!
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JerkoftheMonth
02/04/09

In reply to Lesbian Couple "Makes History" Again By Breaking Up
While it doesn't affect me in the least if they get divorced and I wish them the best of this difficult situation, I gotta wonder how a marriage they fought so hard to be able to have lasted 2 years? Clearly straight and gay people may be too quick to get married if divorce rates are so high. I am totally supportive of gay marriage rights, but how about people not get married ALL THE TIME without seriously considering what a marriage is?

In addition, I should mention that I am prepared to be single forever if I don't find someone I am seriously ready to marry.
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morninggloria
02/04/09

In reply to Lesbian Couple "Makes History" Again By Breaking Up
Wait till I tell all of my young horny male coworkers about the hot, hot girl on girl divorce action!
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ItchykooParker
02/04/09

@morninggloria: Ha! Funny. I love you for this.

I am so sick of the 'lesbian girls for the guys' sake' bs. OVER it.
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BAngieB
02/04/09

In reply to Lesbian Couple "Makes History" Again By Breaking Up
Those damn queers and their equals rights. Look how they have destroyed marriage - next thing you know the straight people will want to be able to divorce.
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