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No, Barack Obama's Economic Plan Is Not Discriminating Against Women
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morninggloria
12/09/08

In reply to No, Barack Obama's Economic Plan Is Not Discriminating Against Women
All those new construction companies are going to need secretaries, right?
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Gundam_Halo
12/09/08

@morninggloria: Or you can try becoming a construction worker.
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morninggloria
12/09/08

@Gundam_Halo: But what will become of my long acrylic nails?!?!?!
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funnyface
12/09/08

In reply to No, Barack Obama's Economic Plan Is Not Discriminating Against Women
Let me know when there's a stimulus plan for out of work receptionists.
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SomeAuthorGirl
12/09/08

In reply to No, Barack Obama's Economic Plan Is Not Discriminating Against Women
Thanks for cutting through the crap Megan.

Also, to throw in my two cents, those in the media who focus on these issues would be well served to take a look at the back-n-forth FAR legislation on preference for woman-owned businesses while ALSO not being blind to fraudulent contracting. There are a lot of women entrepreneurs, who employ a lot of women in sectors like technology and energy, who are losing business due to both the economic state of affairs as well as fraud by large (predominantly male/white) large corporations.

Not to uh, get on a soapbox or anything. But there are a lot of noteworthy issues that get very little play, since it's easier to make shit up about the elected guy who hasn't had a chance to actually do anything yet.
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Gundam_Halo
12/09/08

In reply to No, Barack Obama's Economic Plan Is Not Discriminating Against Women
Down here in TX, DOW just had to cut a major portion of their workforce, my brother included. The company I work for, which is tied into the auto industry, probably won't survive the 1st month of the new year.

I'd be seriously fucking pissed if the stimulus plans were changed to accommodate teachers (although I do understand they education reform is in order) and social workers because women really felt they weren't represented enough.

Argh, sorry but this article really pisses me off. Construction workers across the nation being layed off? The biggest 3 auto manufacturers in danger of closing and creating the biggest unemployment rate spike in history? That's ok, there weren't enough women in them!

Shouldn't have read that article, damn.
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Red-headed bookworm
12/09/08

@Gundam_Halo: Exactly. Teachers and social workers are employed and, well, if the economy gets worse I think more social workers will get jobs and not lose them. Manufacturing jobs are falling. My job is secure, for now. My boyfriend's, maybe not. The company he works for is struggling because of the economy and the auto industry. Many people with manufacturing jobs don't have a college education, meaning they are kind of stuck in manufacturing if they want to make a decent wage. Teachers and social workers have college educations and can be more flexible in their jobs.
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chiken
12/09/08

In reply to No, Barack Obama's Economic Plan Is Not Discriminating Against Women
Since a there remains a significant gender gap both in workforce participation and in wages, I must disagree with you, Megan. Why should the government focus on primarily helping men when this gap still exists? I am not disputing that more men than women have recently been the victims of lay-offs, but that doesn't change the fact that men have greater opportunities for well-paying jobs than women do, even in today's economy. Yes, our country has limited resources, but helping those with more limited opportunities -- even if its "at the expense of" those who need help less -- is precisely the right idea.
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Mkp-hearts-NYC
12/09/08

@chiken: If the idea is for the government to help women get jobs, then the emphasis/financial support should be on training programs... this stimulus package is designed to spur growth of the economy, not to advance the employment rates of one gender or the other.
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Penny
12/09/08

@Mkp-hearts-nyc: Exactly.
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whatsername
12/09/08

In reply to No, Barack Obama's Economic Plan Is Not Discriminating Against Women
She's arguing that we use the economic crisis to reduce the gender gap in wages and employment in this country by using limited resources to help women, possibly at the expense of men.

Someone needs to take a macroeconomic course, stat! Excuse me while I bwahahahahahahaha over here.
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Penny
12/09/08

@whatsergem: Dude, macroecon sucks ass. I hated that class. So much so that I had to take it twice because I failed it the first time around.
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whatsername
12/09/08

@Archetype: Really? I looooved it. Hated micro. Micro was my kryptonite. Seriously. But then I also got all the hard calculus problems kinda right and sucked on the 'standard' ones in math. I'm upside down girl, I've been told.
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Ratinski
12/09/08

@whatsergem: Micro is evil. Macro on the other hand - well. Let's put it this way: I got a mercy C in Microeconomic Theory, and was Unofficial Class Tutor in Macroeconomic Theory.
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whatsername
12/09/08

@Ratinski: What with negative marking and multiple choice questions of doom, I failed and flailed at my first micro test. I sucked like a toddler trying out a sippy cup. Badly.
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Never Stop Dancing
12/09/08

In reply to No, Barack Obama's Economic Plan Is Not Discriminating Against Women
Anything would be an improvement over Bush's economic plan which didn't favor anyone other than the top 1% of income earners
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BrutallyHonestBabes (aka Mrs. Sarah.of.a.Lesser.Hobbit)
12/09/08

In reply to No, Barack Obama's Economic Plan Is Not Discriminating Against Women
Perhaps the gender difference in sectors like alternative energy will improve if there are more jobs?
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Penny
12/09/08

@BrutallyHonestBabes: Maybe. I still get the sense that areas such as R&D will see more female growth than operational kinds of "hands on" jobs.
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Mkp-hearts-NYC
12/09/08

@Archetype: (heh. Female growth)

In a tight job market, I feel like most industries will be looking for the best of the overqualified masses looking for those jobs, and that will mean those who've had the most time and experience in those industries -- and in a male-dominated sector, that might well mean the candidates with the most experience are..men.
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BrutallyHonestBabes (aka Mrs. Sarah.of.a.Lesser.Hobbit)
12/09/08

@Mkp-hearts-nyc: But perhaps women will rise to the top of the list because employers (sadly) will not offer as high a salary?
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Mkp-hearts-NYC
12/09/08

@BrutallyHonestBabes: Dunno...times like these even the menfolk might stoop to taking what they can get.
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BelleBreezing
12/09/08

In reply to No, Barack Obama's Economic Plan Is Not Discriminating Against Women
I agree with you Megan. But I wanted to add in my state, public school teachers are facing a possible pay cut next year. Which, though way better than being laid off, means that traditional female jobs may not be suffering as much as tradionally male professions, these professions are affected, too. So women are being screwed, too...just not as much as men.
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Penny
12/09/08

@BelleBreezing: I am not sure what state you are in, but state-funded jobs are being cut across the board in CA, certainly not just teachers. In fact, teachers tend to have more protection as they are unionized.
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citrus buddha
12/09/08

In reply to No, Barack Obama's Economic Plan Is Not Discriminating Against Women
Since when is law male dominated? Does she mean partner track lawyers? Because my understanding is there are now more women in law school than men.
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J.D.Regent
12/09/08

@citrus_buddha: yeah look at the percentages of partner on gender lines -- it's piss poor for how many women are going to law school.
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Mkp-hearts-NYC
12/09/08

@citrus_buddha: This is a fairly recent development, but yes, now law school enrollment is approaching 55-45 (or somewhere within that narrow margin) women. But in terms of top level partner-or-executive positions, women constitute only 17% of those jobs.
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Kivrin
12/09/08

@citrus_buddha: Yeah, I was gonna say, I know a hell of a lot of women in law school and in consulting. Obviously my evidence is anecdotal, but I'd be interested to see some statistics for those two fields...
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Kivrin
12/09/08

@Kivrin: Just to clarify, I don't know women who are both consultants and law students. I know many women who are consultants, and I know plenty of women who are lawyers. That is all. :)
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siouxsie queue
12/09/08

@Mkp-hearts-nyc: Since it's pretty recent, I imagine the demographics at the top will change soon. I'm in grad school in a field that has mostly male professors at the very upper eschelons, but more than half my classmates are women. Several of the younger profs are women, too, so I think change is a-comin'. I hope, anyway.
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J.D.Regent
12/09/08

@siouxsie sioux: I don't know man. legal culture is pretty macho too, and they don't exactly make much room for work life balance on the partner track. I hope you're right, but I don't want to just kind of sit on my hands and hope things will get better as the old men die off.
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Mkp-hearts-NYC
12/09/08

@siouxsie sioux: I dunno about "soon," since it traditionally takes longer to move up, and statistically this generation is more likely to change careers. It used to be that you'd go to law school, pick a company, and stay there until they gave your "distinguished service retirement watch"...now people's career paths are more flexible. (I'm currently editing a book on the subject so I've done a bunch of research into the status of women in law right now)
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hfree
12/09/08

In reply to No, Barack Obama's Economic Plan Is Not Discriminating Against Women
I don't Hirshman has taken into account trickle down economics. Hopefully aiding the construction/engineering/infrastructure-related industries will lead to more jobs in general in the future. You have to look at the big picture.

At least that's how I see it, but I'm often wrong about economic issues.
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hfree
12/09/08

@hfree: "I don't think". . .
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siouxsie queue
12/09/08

In reply to No, Barack Obama's Economic Plan Is Not Discriminating Against Women
It seems to me that people overlook the second part of "equal pay for equal work." Nothing ought to be stopping young women from going into, say, electrical engineering or construction management. Girls don't have to grow up to be social workers. It would certainly be a victory for women if we could get ourselves and our daughters into energy sector jobs.
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J.D.Regent
12/09/08

@siouxsie sioux: yeah like I said it is kind of weird to hear this logic from Hirschman, who is usually all like ladies, go get that high paying man's job and make your submissive husband take care of the 1.5 children.
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Red-headed bookworm
12/09/08

@J.D.Regent: Yep. Maybe if there are less women in the construction and engineering fields we should be encouraging more to get into them instead of, you know, promoting gender stereotypes of employment.

And I'm all for more green jobs in engineering. I'm almost done with my engineering degree and want to work in something like alternative energy or another green area.
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Penny
12/09/08

In reply to No, Barack Obama's Economic Plan Is Not Discriminating Against Women
A just economic stimulus plan must include jobs in fields like social work and teaching, where large numbers of women work.

I really cannot get my head around this logic. We've just endured 8 years of an administration who did not focus, in the least, on these types of government jobs. Now we're bitching about the fact that they are not included in a stimulus plan?

Don't we expect these jobs to be rewarded with more funding and attention now that we have a more liberal, socially conscious administration focusing on domestic issues?

Also, the proportions of women/men in this sector are nothing like the proportions of women/men in the manufacturing sector.
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whatsername
12/09/08

@Archetype: Me either, but maybe we're both working under that pesky thing called ACTUAL logic, not bizzaroworld logic.

Maybe I'm soft in the head, but isn't the definition of a stimulus plan into an economic sector to boost said sector, to produce more widgets, to lower economies of scale, to reduce marginal costs and increase marginal profit, increase employment, and then increase the rate of return for investors, so creating new capital investment and so on and so on. And is the definition of a STIMULUS also because, maybe, something needs stimulating!? Like a sector that is currently lagging behind, not really producing at its production possibility frontier, meaning idle machinery (or whatever else is used as capital) and low employment.
Hirshman should also look at the cost-benefit of utlity when investing in one sector versus another.
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whatsername
12/09/08

@whatsergem: Increase economies of scale, no?
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Crabby Cakes
12/09/08

In reply to No, Barack Obama's Economic Plan Is Not Discriminating Against Women
Did she really think no one would pick up on her blatant falsehood? How does she continue to have a job?
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Mkp-hearts-NYC
12/09/08

In reply to No, Barack Obama's Economic Plan Is Not Discriminating Against Women
Thanks for digging in and looking for the real statistics behind the frightening assertions. I think that the more jobs are created the more jobs women and men have a chance to apply for. It would be a mistake to create more in a "female-dominated" industry just as it would be a mistake to deliberately cater to "male-dominated" industries.
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