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Judge Strikes Down Oklahoma Abortion Ultrasound Law
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CalvertMerenda
08/19/09

In reply to Judge Strikes Down Oklahoma Abortion Ultrasound Law
Yes, and the second one would be considered controversial, considering how many weeks were between the two. I went back for SEVERAL follow-up appts, because I just didn't trust that everything felt "right," but they kept assuring me that I was not pregnant anymore, and that it was just "leftover hormones" working their magic. Once they finally saw (after my third complaint/checkup) that I was, indeed, still pregnant, another abortion was finally scheduled.

This experience, though awful at the time, completely opened my eyes up to the MANY reasons a woman could be put in the position to consider a later-term abortion.
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slowpoke.r
08/19/09

In reply to Judge Strikes Down Oklahoma Abortion Ultrasound Law
I'd like to point out that some women cannot have stomach-based (for lack of the right term) ultrasounds in the first trimester and must have them done vaginally. Basically you have to take off your pants and have a wand inserted in your vagina in order to see anything. The fact that this law would force an invasive procedure on many women is an especially disgusting aspect of it.
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queenjulie
08/19/09

@slowpoke.r: Right. The transvaginal ultrasound is usually used in the first trimester, because you can't see a damn thing early in pregnancy when doing the abdominal ultrasound (the kind you see on tv). It doesn't generally hurt, but if I had been raped or sexually abused, I would freak the fuck out if a doctor tried to do one on me before allowing me to have an abortion. I cannot imagine how traumatic this kind of thing must be to patients who are desperate to get an embryo out of them.
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slowpoke.r
08/19/09

@queenjulie: Thank you for the correct terms! (Stomach-based...I'm an idiot.)
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lalaland13
08/19/09

In reply to Judge Strikes Down Oklahoma Abortion Ultrasound Law
Doctor: Your fetus appears to be making the "Hook 'em Horns" symbol.

Woman: Oh god, I can't give birth to a Longhorn fan! Abort it!

Sports jokes aside, I'm sick of you, Oklahoma. I know most of my family is from your state, yes. But you still suck. The ostensibly Democratic governor vetos it because we "can't make rape and incest victims get ultrasounds." I appreciate that, Brad Henry, but really, I don't think we can make any woman go through with that. But Oklahoma being Oklahoma, they override the veto.

This state is not OK. I don't care what their motto says.
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dummyfakeroller
08/19/09

@lalaland13: For a minute, I thought you were talking about the Aggies. I forgot that OU (or is it OSU) has a UT rivalry as well.
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lalaland13
08/19/09

@dummyfakeroller: It's OU, yeah. I tend to root for them more, despite being born in Texas. I blame my dad.
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Zombies make the heart grow fonder
08/19/09

In reply to Judge Strikes Down Oklahoma Abortion Ultrasound Law
I am really tired of shit like this and hearing people talk about women who seek abortions as if they don't realize that an abortion terminates a pregnancy. Do people really think that women enjoy abortions? When I hear an anti-choice argument that talks about "reckless sex" or "not knowing the consequences of their actions" I just want to be like shut up, you shut your mouth now. Any restriction on abortion that uses this sort of justification should immediately be struck down as being paternalistic and sexist. I could go on and on about how enraged this gets me....
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suzannelb
08/19/09

In reply to Judge Strikes Down Oklahoma Abortion Ultrasound Law
"SuzanneLB, look at this ultrasound. What do you see there?"

"I see a herd of wild ponies running freely across the plains. Bring on the D&C, please."
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CalvertMerenda
08/19/09

In reply to Judge Strikes Down Oklahoma Abortion Ultrasound Law
They had to take an ultrasound at mine and asked if I'd like to see it, which I declined. It's not that I thought I'd change my mind or suddenly fall in love with the damn thing. I just didn't need any more stress than I already was going through (my abortion didn't work the first time and I had to have another several weeks later). I can't imagine people trying to make this situation harder for women.
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formergr
08/19/09

@CalvertMerenda: Oh wow, I'm so sorry-- you had to have it twice?? I can only imagine how stressful that would be...
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dummyfakeroller
08/19/09

In reply to Judge Strikes Down Oklahoma Abortion Ultrasound Law
Common medical practice is to require doctors to provide patients information that's necessary for them to make informed decisions.

I would assume that a recipient of abortion would need to know the health risks to her, the healing time, which procedure would work best with size of fetus and her medical history, how to prevent infection, when the menstrual cycle will return to normal and the type, if any, of anaesthesia that will be used and, if she wants, if she will have trouble conceiving in the future.

But certainly I can't make that decision unless you tell me how many toes the fetus will have or whether or not its legs look as though it will grow up to be a fast runner if only given the chance. Could you also postulate as to hair/eye color, and any identifying birth marks are present while you perform the ultrasound, doctor?
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LucyRed
08/19/09

In reply to Judge Strikes Down Oklahoma Abortion Ultrasound Law
"Well, this blobby shape over here is your baby's soon-to-be-formed arm. And this blurry thing in the corner? Well, that might be some cell matter that will make up your baby's, uh.. arm. Yeah. And this strange shadow that's shaped like a rabbit? That's, uh, that's probably your baby's...foot. So. How do you feel, do you still want an abortion?"
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BuffyPhD
08/19/09

@LucyRed: Right! "And, well, that little pointy part there, that's probably going to be a little tail. Might go away. Might not! Only one way to find out though!"
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BuffyPhD
08/19/09

In reply to Judge Strikes Down Oklahoma Abortion Ultrasound Law
What would men say if prior to receiving a prescription for Viagra, health care practitioners were mandated to lecture them at length about the sexual coercion most women experience over the course of their lives? Just wondering.
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Jeenzy
08/19/09

In reply to Judge Strikes Down Oklahoma Abortion Ultrasound Law
How would anyone even know if the doctor just decided not to describe ultrasounds, law be damned?

Either way, thank goodness this law got shot down, even if it isn't for exactly the right reason.
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onestrawplz
08/19/09

@Jeenzy: If this were a law, I'd bet money that undercover anti-choicers would be visiting clinics to ensure that the doctors were in fact giving ultrasounds and whatnot...anything they could do to get OB/GYNs in legal trouble.
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TheGuvnah
08/19/09

@Jeenzy: usually in ultrasound laws the woman has to sign a consent form indicating she had received the "counseling" and descriptions.
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morninggloria
08/19/09

In reply to Judge Strikes Down Oklahoma Abortion Ultrasound Law
This is sort of like when I really don't want to menstruate and I draw a picture of an ovum with a sad face and tape it to my bathroom wall.
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CurtCole
08/19/09

@morninggloria:
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save jinger
08/19/09

@morninggloria: Does it look like that blob from the Zoloft commercials?
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morninggloria
08/19/09

@save jinger: It does, except those are thirsty tampons lingering at the door of the cave rather than yellow things.
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Nariel
08/19/09

@morninggloria: I made this just for you:
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CurtCole
08/19/09

In reply to Judge Strikes Down Oklahoma Abortion Ultrasound Law
Awesome job Vicki Robertson, wish you'd done it because it was wrong, not just because there was a flaw in the way it got passed. But hey, we'll take it.
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Maritsa
08/19/09

@CurtCole: Well, judges always take the easier - i.e. procedural or technical - route when they can.
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DutchessOfDork
08/19/09

In reply to Judge Strikes Down Oklahoma Abortion Ultrasound Law
Doctors, if there are procedures that you find morally improper, get another job.
I cannot cherry pick what I can and cannot do at my job and I'm hardly vital.
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linnyt is a walking cliché
08/19/09

@DutchessOfDork: i'd add pharmacists to that too
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Lymed
08/19/09

In reply to Judge Strikes Down Oklahoma Abortion Ultrasound Law
It seems to me this violates the right to make our own medical decisions. Americans have the right to refuse any specific medical treatment, which includes ultrasounds. And refusing one treatment should not impact the receipt of another form of treatment. The only limitation I can think of that is legal is if the patient is not competent. But you can refuse even life saving treatment, you just can't choose to have life ending treatment under our constitution.
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morninggloria
08/19/09

@Lymed: That's not necessarily true. For example, before surgery, you need to have your blood tested and typed. You cannot have certain surgeries without having blood drawn beforehand.
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Anna N.
08/19/09

@morninggloria: Right -- because before certain surgeries, blood tests are medically necessary. In most cases, these ultrasounds aren't.
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Lymed
08/19/09

@morninggloria: Is this law or just how the hospitals perform it? A right to make medical decisions does not force medical providers to treat you any way you want. Plus, the blood testing is medically necessary because of the risk of blood loss. You probably can choose not to get blood transfusions. I'm not sure you could find a doctor who would perform surgery on you though.
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morninggloria
08/19/09

@Anna N.: Totally. I just wanted to point out that some procedures are prerequisites for other procedures, and I can see idjits trying to stretch the definition of "medically necessary" to fit their agenda.
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pear.shaped.Sara
08/19/09

@Lymed: You can refuse treatment, but then can't the hospital also refuse to treat you?
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stacyinbean
08/19/09

In reply to Judge Strikes Down Oklahoma Abortion Ultrasound Law
I had to have an ultrasound before mine, but it was just to determine exact fetal age so they could decide if I could have medical option or surgery. The woman doing it asked if I wanted to know if it was twins! I was like, uh, NOT REALLY, can we get this over with, thanks. But honestly, I can't see how an ultrasound would change your mind. It looks like a bean.
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SarahMC
08/19/09

@stacyinbean: Does... that mean it was twins? Why would she say that if it was one?
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stacyinbean
08/19/09

@SarahMC: I know, right? They run in my family too, so it was one of those moments where I kind of wanted to tell her STFU. I'll admit I've always dreamed of a set of boy/girl twins (two babies for the price of one pregnancy!!!) but not at that point in my life!
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morninggloria
08/19/09

@stacyinbean: I thought alien.
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Anna N.
08/19/09

@stacyinbean: But honestly, I can't see how an ultrasound would change your mind. It looks like a bean.

I do wonder how the doctor was supposed to describe the "arms and legs" in cases where the fetus doesn't have those yet.
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stacyinbean
08/19/09

@Anna N.: That's what I don't understand. I mean, I was barely 7 weeks so mine was spectacularly boring but even at 12 or 15 weeks, it can't be THAT different than what I was seeing. And honestly, I was being generous with the bean comparison, it truly was a black screen with a couple of white spots!
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formergr
08/19/09

@SarahMC: That's all kinds of mind-fuckery right there...
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