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New York, 8:05 PM
Thu Nov 26
42 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of Zulkey Zulkey
    11/24/09

    In reply to Nadya Suleman Says She May Have More Children
    fuck this documentary: I can't wait for the documentary that comes 10 years ago where these kids and the Gosselin children get to give their point of view on all of this. I'm sure they'll all be remarkably comfortable in front a camera.
     Reply
    Zulkey was starred Zulkey was unstarred
    Image of HereComesMyBaby HereComesMyBaby
    11/24/09

    @Zulkey: Oh yes, the ol' documentary from 10 years ago where these unfertilized eggs and sperm spoke their minds!

    Just had to make fun of the typo.
     Reply
    HereComesMyBaby was starred HereComesMyBaby was unstarred
    Image of maude_flanders maude_flanders
    11/24/09

    In reply to Nadya Suleman Says She May Have More Children
    On whose dime?

    Why should the state indulge a woman whose children could probably benefit from the presence (if not serious intervention/removal from the home) of child services anyway?
     Reply
    maude_flanders was starred maude_flanders was unstarred
    Image of mah365001 mah365001
    11/24/09

    @maude_flanders: i wish people would think a little harder before throwing that out there. do you know what happens after "removal from the home"? they aren't dropped into a pile of rainbows and cupcakes. they're sent to foster homes, with strange adults, strange kids, and strange social workers who are then trusted to take care of them. A huge number of these kids are being abused in care by other kids and by foster parents. Even the foster parents who aren't abusing them are usually overworked, most of them are overcrowded and can't possibly support and supervise the amount of kids in care. Imagine Octomom without any love or familiarity or family.

    i'm not saying she isn't crazy. and i'm not saying it isn't warranted sometimes. but there's a serious, lonely, and sometimes deadly set of problems that occur after "removal from the home" that all of us well-loved morally outraged people ignore so we can feel the parents are being sufficiently punished for their inadequacy or negligence.

    do you really think it costs less or is more helpful to sever all connections a child has (including the familiarity and comfort of other friends, family, teachers, neighbors) than to provide genuine and extensive support and education to the parents?
     Reply
    GoldenRatioφ (aka -girl11) promoted this comment mah365001 was starred mah365001 was unstarred
    Image of Katxyz Katxyz
    11/24/09

    In reply to Nadya Suleman Says She May Have More Children
    I'm kind of confused as to how she goes through eight loads of laundry a day. Is she washing the babies in the machine?
     Reply
    Katxyz was starred Katxyz was unstarred
    Image of Skellatrix Skellatrix
    11/24/09

    In reply to Nadya Suleman Says She May Have More Children
    Every single one her octuplets has the middle name "Angel," as though they're special little miracles from the heavens. They're the result of expensive medical technology! Their middle names should be "Science."
    [en.wikipedia.org]
     Reply
    Skellatrix was starred Skellatrix was unstarred
    Image of rednrowdy rednrowdy
    11/24/09

    In reply to Nadya Suleman Says She May Have More Children
    dear nadya,

    you, again, missed the fucking point. it's not murder, it's ETHICS..a word that you might need to look up in the first place since you clearly don't know what it means.

    you need prayer,
    rednrowdy
     Reply
    rednrowdy was starred rednrowdy was unstarred
    Image of kellybones kellybones
    11/24/09

    @rednrowdy: thanks be to jeebus for saying something, rednrowdy! i hate that when people call it murder and then refer to the child by the name that was given them AFTER the birth.
     Reply
    HarpMadness promoted this comment kellybones was starred kellybones was unstarred
    Image of rednrowdy rednrowdy
    11/24/09

    @kellybones: her whole scenario highlights why there needs to be a legal limit on how many embryos can be implanted at one time. three, for example, might be a good number to start with.

    #tips
     Reply
    rednrowdy was starred rednrowdy was unstarred
    Image of WashingMyHair WashingMyHair
    11/24/09

    @rednrowdy: The overwhelming majority of docs only transfer 2 embryos at the most. I've heard of 3 in a few cases, but that's rare. Her doc was just as crazy as she is.
     Reply
    WashingMyHair was starred WashingMyHair was unstarred
    Image of Kali Mama Kali Mama
    11/24/09

    In reply to Nadya Suleman Says She May Have More Children
    Snubbing the baby hold at 2:58.
    You have FOURTEEN kids woman, don't Bogard the cuddles.
     Reply
    Kali Mama was starred Kali Mama was unstarred
    Image of BabyJane BabyJane
    11/24/09

    @Kali Mama: I'm glad that I'm not the only one that noticed that. Is there contraband in the kid's diaper that she's afraid of becoming dislodged or does she just think the interviewer has cooties?
     Reply
    BabyJane was starred BabyJane was unstarred
    Image of queenjulie queenjulie
    11/24/09

    @BabyJane: She may have been saving the baby from fear--lots of babies are terrified of being held by strangers and will scream bloody murder if you hand them over to someone else.
     Reply
    Kali Mama promoted this comment queenjulie was starred queenjulie was unstarred
    Image of Kali Mama Kali Mama
    11/24/09

    @queenjulie: It's not like she's really facilitating the conditioning of the babies to strangers.
     Reply
    Kali Mama was starred Kali Mama was unstarred
    Image of BetteD BetteD
    11/24/09

    In reply to Nadya Suleman Says She May Have More Children
    She's batshit, but those kids are damned cute. It frightens me to realize that she has more kids in her home than exist on my block. Like, nearly twice as many. She has more kids than came trick-or-treating to my house this year!
     Reply
    BetteD was starred BetteD was unstarred
    Image of willwriteforfood willwriteforfood
    11/24/09

    In reply to Nadya Suleman Says She May Have More Children
    I read that headline and then saw the kid's face in the screengrab and died. It was like he was horrified at the prospect and was trying to speak to her: "DON'T DO IT, MOM!"
     Reply
    willwriteforfood was starred willwriteforfood was unstarred
    Image of otterpops otterpops
    11/24/09

    In reply to Nadya Suleman Says She May Have More Children
    Is one of these kids named Isaac? Cause that would have made her decision a lot easier. Granted if Abraham didn't have the balls to go through with it, I doubt she would either.
     Reply
    Lymed promoted this comment otterpops was starred otterpops was unstarred
    Image of SUNNY1 SUNNY1
    11/24/09

    In reply to Nadya Suleman Says She May Have More Children
    I believe the answer is Isaac.
     Reply
    NellMood promoted this comment SUNNY1 was starred SUNNY1 was unstarred
    Image of FroderickFronkensteen FroderickFronkensteen
    11/24/09

    @SUNNY1: Well played, sir.
     Reply
    Maritsa promoted this comment FroderickFronkensteen was starred FroderickFronkensteen was unstarred
    Image of otterpops otterpops
    11/24/09

    @SUNNY1: Didn't see your comment before I made mine, but agreed.
     Reply
    Maritsa promoted this comment otterpops was starred otterpops was unstarred
    Image of Tippi Hedren Tippi Hedren
    11/24/09

    In reply to Nadya Suleman Says She May Have More Children
    Does the GMA banner say Octomon? Like she's some new super villian with 8 angry, flailing arms?
     Reply
    Tippi Hedren was starred Tippi Hedren was unstarred
    Image of ronniedobbs ronniedobbs
    11/24/09

    @Tippi Hedren: Also, the super villain listens to Bob Marley.
     Reply
    ronniedobbs was starred ronniedobbs was unstarred
    Image of Tippi Hedren Tippi Hedren
    11/24/09

    @ronniedobbs: "I think you do, mon."
     Reply
    Tippi Hedren was starred Tippi Hedren was unstarred
    Image of femme-bot femme-bot
    11/24/09

    In reply to Nadya Suleman Says She May Have More Children
    Yeah, yeah. Abortion is murder. Blah blah. When money is tight you should have more kids, yadda yadda. This woman is brilliant.
     Reply
    femme-bot was starred femme-bot was unstarred
    Image of Understater Understater
    11/24/09

    @femme-bot: More kids and bigger lips.
     Reply
    Understater was starred Understater was unstarred
    Image of PilgrimSoul PilgrimSoul
    11/24/09

    In reply to Nadya Suleman Says She May Have More Children
    You know if you had a decent social safety net in this country all of these children would be adequately cared and provided for without regard to how nutso/camera-ready/tabloid-friendly their mom is.

    Just a thought.
     Reply
    Edited by PilgrimSoul at 11/24/09 11:24 AM PilgrimSoul was starred PilgrimSoul was unstarred
    Image of Awestruck Awestruck
    11/24/09

    @PilgrimSoul: I think she would be a freakshow in any land, even Scandinavia. She was the first person to ever deliver eight live children at one time, right? The money part gives people a reason to condemn her for being a nutjob.
     Reply
    Awestruck was starred Awestruck was unstarred
    Image of LilSpitfire LilSpitfire
    11/24/09

    @PilgrimSoul: People need to realize that having children is not a right, it's a responsibility.

    When you have children to fill a need this isn't parenting...it's an addiction and the people who suffer the most are the kids.

    Sometimes being the best parent you can be is having the wisdom to realize you shouldn't be one.
     Reply
    amoureuse est heureuse promoted this comment LilSpitfire was starred LilSpitfire was unstarred
    Image of galena11 galena11
    11/24/09

    @Awestruck: She is the second woman to have octuplets in the US, but the first to have all eight survive, I believe.
     Reply
    Maritsa promoted this comment Edited by galena11 at 11/24/09 11:49 AM galena11 was starred galena11 was unstarred
    Image of Ms.RantyPants Ms.RantyPants
    11/24/09

    @LilSpitfire: well actually, the right to procreate is a fundamental right under the 14th amendment (Skinner v. Oklahoma), just like the right NOT to procreate (Roe).

    But right to procreate doesn't mean that everyone should do it. Unfortunately and fortunately, procreation is a free-market system right now - anyone can do it, and IVF/ART is successful because of market demands.
     Reply
    Edited by Ms.RantyPants at 11/24/09 11:52 AM Ms.RantyPants was starred Ms.RantyPants was unstarred
    Image of LilSpitfire LilSpitfire
    11/24/09

    @Ms.RantyPants:

    I think people forget the responsibility part which is why we have so many abused, neglected, sexually assaulted, improvised children left to the system.

    #tips
     Reply
    LilSpitfire was starred LilSpitfire was unstarred
    Image of Ms.RantyPants Ms.RantyPants
    11/24/09

    @LilSpitfire: oh absolutely. It's really awful, but its not really something the state can do for someone.

    All we can do is shame these parents into submission. The standard of neglect/abuse is pretty high, so these types of parents are (and probably should not be) criminal /athough i'm not sure if the public shaming tactic is working because even though Nadia/Duggars/etc. are publicly mocked, they love the attention too much to care.


    #tips
     Reply
    PilgrimSoul promoted this comment Edited by Ms.RantyPants at 11/24/09 12:03 PM Ms.RantyPants was starred Ms.RantyPants was unstarred
    Image of PilgrimSoul PilgrimSoul
    11/24/09

    @all: Man, y'all. You guys are kinda harsh. I am not looking to be having fourteen kids anytime soon, but for chrissakes, the woman is likely mentally ill, and "shaming" doesn't work because this is not something rational people do. I don't like her, but on the other hand, I have no idea how one pays the astronomical cost of medical care or child care in this country without making a freak show of oneself anyway.

    What I am saying is that this is why social safety nets are important, because even if she makes some money out of this, her kids are gonna suffer one way or the other, and it would sure be nice to live in a society where people weren't spitting fire at her. Me, I shrug my shoulders, and think of the kids. Seriously, that's the only decent thing to do. #tips
     Reply
    PilgrimSoul was starred PilgrimSoul was unstarred
    Image of LilSpitfire LilSpitfire
    11/24/09

    @Ms.RantyPants: I don't think shaming is the way to go either.

    Legally you cannot force a person not to have children but there needs to be LARGE ethical guild lines in regards to who you implant 8 embryos into when said person has no job, no income to speak of, and 6 young children already.

    I am so mad at this doctor. Major fail.
     Reply
    LilSpitfire was starred LilSpitfire was unstarred
    Image of Awestruck Awestruck
    11/24/09

    @PilgrimSoul: I'm aware of how problematic it is to think this way, but Suleman is about the last person to demonstrate the importance of social safety nets--it's criminal the way so many people are condemned for making "bad choices" that lead to poverty, but for someone to behave SO irresponsibly when people are suffering with just one or two kids makes it impossible for you to empathize with her.

    If we lived in the kind of society where people wouldn't spit fire at her, she wouldn't be famous, don't you think? Also, if we lived in this ladida perfect society she might have gotten decent mental health care somewhere along the line. I sincerely cannot understand how anyone could see Suleman as an object lesson in anything but scientific hubris.
     Reply
    Awestruck was starred Awestruck was unstarred
    Image of Ms.RantyPants Ms.RantyPants
    11/24/09

    @PilgrimSoul: Ah, I didn't mean to come off as 'shaming-is-good' - I just meant that it is the only real way that we can discourage this unethical behavior - and yes it is unethical (on the mother's part). I guess my point fits into your larger point - if we had a larger social safety net, we wouldn't be as worried for the kids as we are

    #tips
     Reply
    Ms.RantyPants was starred Ms.RantyPants was unstarred
    Image of Ms.RantyPants Ms.RantyPants
    11/24/09

    @LilSpitfire: True, we do need more strigent ethical standards.

    Here's my problem with ethical standards - they don't really provide any remedies and if any remedies are available, it's after the deed has been done. For example, that idiot doctor was kicked out of the AMA or had his license revoked (maybe both?) - but that doesn't really help the kids or the mother.

    Also, there are gonna be unethical/crappy docs out there. Unless ALL of them refuse to implant 8 embryos at once, a determined octomom will find one who will do it. Never stand in the way of a determined gal, I guess.

    Eh, I'm just one big critic - it's my lawyer nature.

    #tips
     Reply
    Ms.RantyPants was starred Ms.RantyPants was unstarred
    Image of LilSpitfire LilSpitfire
    11/24/09

    @Awestruck: I agree totally.

    It wasn't as if she went "oops the condom broke, or oops I was drunk, or oops my BC failed". This was
    1. seek out doctor
    2. Secure funding
    3.Go for consultation
    4. Prepare embryos
    5. Prepare for procedure
    6. Have procedure
    etc etc

    This was planned at every step.
    Which is why it makes it that much more crazy.

    I know there is a big social taboo to call mothers shitty but this women is a shitty fucking mother.

    #tips
     Reply
    maude_flanders promoted this comment Edited by LilSpitfire at 11/24/09 12:56 PM LilSpitfire was starred LilSpitfire was unstarred
    Image of Le Kangourou de Kataroo Le Kangourou de Kataroo
    11/19/09

    In reply to Dugard, Prejean, Suleman: The Pornification Of Inadvertently Famous Women
    I can understand the outrage over the Jaycee Dugard "inspired" film (I'd like to let Seth and Amy have a REALLY!? with that one...) but offering a woman who has modeled lingerie and sexy costumes a porn career doesn't seem like a huge leap to me. Yes, not all models of such clothing want to go into porn, but when you have revealing pictures and a sex type already circulating? I can't work up any ire.
     Reply
    Le Kangourou de Kataroo was starred Le Kangourou de Kataroo was unstarred
    Image of Tippi Hedren Tippi Hedren
    11/19/09

    @Le Kangourou de Kataroo: I agree to an extent. The place where I pause is that Prejean's sex tape wasn't made for a mass audience. It was taken public without her permission.

    Well, supposedly, anyway. I mean it all could have been done for publicity, I guess.
     Reply
    Tippi Hedren was starred Tippi Hedren was unstarred
    Image of cand86 cand86
    11/19/09

    In reply to Dugard, Prejean, Suleman: The Pornification Of Inadvertently Famous Women
    Um, once again, WHY is everybody calling Shane Ryan a pornographer or adult filmmaker? Gah, it's killing me- one article uses that term towards him, and everybody does without checking the facts . . .

    The guy does stupid amateur horror/sexploitation films. Exploitative, sure. Porn, it is not. Disgusting? Certainly. Porn? Nope.

    C'mon, peeps.
     Reply
    cand86 was starred cand86 was unstarred
    Image of girl.of.your.dreams girl.of.your.dreams
    11/19/09

    @cand86: I think this is a really important distinction - though possibly a reason why the idea of him making a Jaycee Dugard film is MORE disturbing.

    This article is about the pornification of inadvertently famous women. I think it makes a good point about the media's sexual objectification of women, but it doesn't exactly apply in the case of the Jaycee film. While I can only speculate on what the film will be, Shane Ryan has not made porn films in the past. It doesn't appear that he is going to all of a sudden start making porn films now. His work isn't like "Nailin Paylin", where a famous woman is replaced with a big-boobed porn star lookalike and put into ridiculous sexual situations. Granted, if it was, it would still be entirely inappropriate. But a look a Ryan's previous films shows that he makes sexually violent exploitation films. Though that doesn't fit as neatly into the thesis of this article, I think it's even more upsetting. Here is a man who has made a career off of portrayals of extreme sexual violence, announcing that he is planning a film based on the story of a rape survivor. It's one thing to make violent films (I personally love horror films, though this brand of exploitation film is definitely not my style). But to take someone's personal story and most likely turn it into an exploitation piece (as that is his M.O.) does strike me as "breathtakingly unkind," to quote the Dugard family.

    (I don't want to link to Mr. Ryan's work, but a quick search will show you that many of his movie trailers are available on YouTube.)
     Reply
    girl.of.your.dreams was starred girl.of.your.dreams was unstarred
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