Prince is crazy (and it saddens me to realize that the guy who once wrote "Pussy got cash in her pocket/before she had dick in her drawers" is now mumbling on about indentured servitude and 8 presidents) but fortunately he's just an entertainer, and not a policy maker.
Also, it really pisses me off when people say they don't vote out of some misguided sense of objectivity. So clearly he's not the brightest bulb in the socket, but whatever.
Tracie, commenting on Prince's morality (being subjective and all,) seems to be on the wrong end of the pool for you. Wouldn't you be a little more comfortable with your normal beat of Tyra and Hills gossip?
Didn't see this (and can't watch the tape), but I spent last night flipping between "Purple Rain" and a "Golden Girls" marathon. It was interesting. . . Going from "Darling Nikki" to Blanche somehow made sense. Ah the 80s.
It's easy for you to say that "we" are living like indentured servants when you can go home and wash your ass with dollar bills and read up chemtrails like your knowledge is going to help "us." We can't all wear ass less chaps- I am indentured to cultural norms that you are not. Please shut your mouth when you speak about the masses, your creepy arrogance is showing. Nevertheless, I still love you boo!
@Balsa Wood: And a homophobe. And quite frankly, it bothers me that people seem to attribute musical talent as "intelligence" and then continue to give assholes like these the time of day even after they've made it quite clear they aren't worth anyone's time.
@nakedscience: Being an asshole does not negate one's musical talent. Half my CD collection was created by assholes. I am not saying one should excuse an artist's behavior solely because he or she makes great art, but if I only listened to nice people, I'd be missing out on a lot.
Picasso - possibly one of the biggest assholes ever
Frank Sinatra - not.a.nice.guy. (bigot! misogynist!)
Mozart - rode the crazy train into the ground.
Dali - to quote him, "Take drugs? Madam, I AM drugs."
Just because someone is artistically talented - and that is a form of intelligence - does not also mean they are good, sane, or otherwise swell individuals. Beyond that, crazy comes in all flavors... and it likewise does not negate said talent.
nakedscience: Can't everyone on this thread love who they love even if YOU don't agree with it? Your smear campaign would be much more effective if you condensed it into one thread, and placed all your well thought out ideas and anecdotes together. I think we get it that YOU don't like Prince but there are other people who do. You think he is a moron and a homophobe... great. Is it going to ruin your life if you cant get all the Prince fangirls to agree with you?
Clearly several people on this thread have been lifelong fans, and probably do recognize that Prince is far from a prophet, and probably a little crazy. Is that enough for you, or do you want people to bow down and admit that Prince is a "moron" and far from intelligent like you believe.
Musically, Prince is a genius. Does that intelligence carryover into his daily life? Who knows... Is he an asshole? Could be... But those "facts" will not make his music any less popular. Does it suck he is in power and can say whatever the fuck his crazy ass wants? Yes, but I think many people know how crazy he is... you don't have to remind us.
@nakedscience: Again. Musical genius. Like literary genius, people often differ upon whom such a title is attributed. Is your genius not being duly recognised shmoopy?
"Last night, he talked about how he believes in chemtrails, the conspiracy theory that the contrails left by flying jets are purposely laced with chemical agents released on the public for secret purposes. Also, his belief that our government should be based on prophecy"
The difference in opinion is based on what makes someone intelligent. I suppose no one would agree that Prince is intelligent based on his beliefs about Chemtrails because he has always been batshit crazy. In this discussion he is only deemed "musically intelligent." I don't think Prince is any more brilliant than your average Joe Schmo, and I have a feeling his fans know that.
D to the I to the A to the M. O to the N to the D to the pearls of love!
Whew. That felt almost as fantastic as the time my friends and I danced around a pizza hut singing "Diamonds and Pearls" drunkenly. Best. Spring. Break. Ever.
This is just my personal hobby horse, but I take issue with the claim that "morality is subjective". I (as an atheist) think that there are objective moral truths, and I think most people (and clearly theists) agree with me. However, I would agree that democracy is based on pluralism, and hence respecting a certain range of moral beliefs.
@Laulau: Morality IS subjective. You cannot take morality and touch it and say, "Look at that. It is morality." the same way that you could look at and pet a rock and say very objectively, "Look at that. It is a rock." For further proof that morality is subjective, take a look at Taboos or whatever that show is that I admittedly never watch, which is all about how some aspects of some culture are signficantly less icky (and immoral) than they are in other cultures.
Yes, I agree that there are important social universal codes such as "Don't kill" or "Don't steal". However, I believe that these are mores that have developed not because there is something innately "immoral" in a grand sense about it, but because it would be a very inconvenient culture that allowed murdering and stealing. I once had a psychology professor discuss morality with a fellow student, and he said kind of harshly to her something along the lines that her understanding of morality was childlike, because the way she conceptualized morality was akin to a child just doing what they were told because they were told that was the "right" way to go.
I think it is wrong to kill. And to steal. But I do not think this is because it is objectively wrong - I just don't want to associate with people who have the subjective belief that it is okay. Yet at the same time, what about extenuating circumstances, like self-defense or starvation? To be honest, I have a VERY set-in-stone personal moral code, but it's just that. Personal. Morality is possibly the most subjective thing I can think of.
@LovelyHue: Not everything that is objective is material. The laws of physics are objectively true, but you can't touch gravity. And the fact that there is disagreement about a subject doesn't make it subjective, it just makes it contested. Plenty of people in the U.S. think that evolution is not a fact, but that demonstrates disagreement, not subjectivity. Your examples - like the case that one might do something otherwise considered immoral in self-defense - shows that morality depends on context, but again not that it is subjective.
If someone else says to me, "look, I get that you think it's wrong to murder my sister because she dishonored me by being raped, but I think that's okay", I'm going to say: nope, you're acting immorally. I can understand where you're coming from, why your culture has trained you in this particular way, but you are wrong and that behavior is unacceptable. If you think morality is merely subjective, you can't make the same claim.
@Laulau: And I should add that I get that this opens the door for the fundamentalist right to respond to me that they also think there's an objective morality and that, on their account, I'm a terrible person. But (a) I'm not going to sacrifice my belief that people who rape children or murder the innocent are objectively doing terrible things simply to avoid the fight, and (b) both sides need to provide arguments, so pony up, religious right. P.S. Plato already showed that you can just say "cuz God says so", so you'll need more argument than that.
"[T]he President of the United States is scarcely in any sense the successor of the presidents of the old Congress. The presidents of Congress were almost solely presiding officers, possessing scarcely a shred of executive or administrative functions; whereas the President of the United States is almost solely an executive officer, with no presiding duties at all. Barring a likeness in social and diplomatic precedence, the two offices are identical only in the possession of the same title."
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he was so cute!
04/28/09
Also, it really pisses me off when people say they don't vote out of some misguided sense of objectivity. So clearly he's not the brightest bulb in the socket, but whatever.
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Wouldn't you be a little more comfortable commenting on PompousAssholesWithACondescensionFetish....com?
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It's easy for you to say that "we" are living like indentured servants when you can go home and wash your ass with dollar bills and read up chemtrails like your knowledge is going to help "us." We can't all wear ass less chaps- I am indentured to cultural norms that you are not. Please shut your mouth when you speak about the masses, your creepy arrogance is showing. Nevertheless, I still love you boo!
- Me
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A random sampling:
Johnny Ramone (indisputably an asshole)
Richard Wagner (still banned in Israel)
Axl Rose (with a side of wackadoo, too)
Maria Callas (diva? bitch? asshole? you decide!)
Nice people:
Jewel
04/28/09
Picasso - possibly one of the biggest assholes ever
Frank Sinatra - not.a.nice.guy. (bigot! misogynist!)
Mozart - rode the crazy train into the ground.
Dali - to quote him, "Take drugs? Madam, I AM drugs."
Just because someone is artistically talented - and that is a form of intelligence - does not also mean they are good, sane, or otherwise swell individuals. Beyond that, crazy comes in all flavors... and it likewise does not negate said talent.
04/28/09
I never said he didn't have talent, I said he wasn't a genius. He's an idiot.
04/28/09
Clearly several people on this thread have been lifelong fans, and probably do recognize that Prince is far from a prophet, and probably a little crazy. Is that enough for you, or do you want people to bow down and admit that Prince is a "moron" and far from intelligent like you believe.
Musically, Prince is a genius. Does that intelligence carryover into his daily life? Who knows... Is he an asshole? Could be... But those "facts" will not make his music any less popular. Does it suck he is in power and can say whatever the fuck his crazy ass wants? Yes, but I think many people know how crazy he is... you don't have to remind us.
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Have you seen this?:
@nakedscience ''Anyone who says this shit:
"Last night, he talked about how he believes in chemtrails, the conspiracy theory that the contrails left by flying jets are purposely laced with chemical agents released on the public for secret purposes. Also, his belief that our government should be based on prophecy"
IS NOT INTELLIGENT. ''
04/28/09
Yes, I have seen that.
The difference in opinion is based on what makes someone intelligent. I suppose no one would agree that Prince is intelligent based on his beliefs about Chemtrails because he has always been batshit crazy. In this discussion he is only deemed "musically intelligent." I don't think Prince is any more brilliant than your average Joe Schmo, and I have a feeling his fans know that.
04/28/09
I actually agree with you, sorry!
My own rage-rant boots carried me away.
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04/28/09
Whew. That felt almost as fantastic as the time my friends and I danced around a pizza hut singing "Diamonds and Pearls" drunkenly. Best. Spring. Break. Ever.
04/28/09
04/28/09
Yes, I agree that there are important social universal codes such as "Don't kill" or "Don't steal". However, I believe that these are mores that have developed not because there is something innately "immoral" in a grand sense about it, but because it would be a very inconvenient culture that allowed murdering and stealing. I once had a psychology professor discuss morality with a fellow student, and he said kind of harshly to her something along the lines that her understanding of morality was childlike, because the way she conceptualized morality was akin to a child just doing what they were told because they were told that was the "right" way to go.
I think it is wrong to kill. And to steal. But I do not think this is because it is objectively wrong - I just don't want to associate with people who have the subjective belief that it is okay. Yet at the same time, what about extenuating circumstances, like self-defense or starvation? To be honest, I have a VERY set-in-stone personal moral code, but it's just that. Personal. Morality is possibly the most subjective thing I can think of.
04/28/09
If someone else says to me, "look, I get that you think it's wrong to murder my sister because she dishonored me by being raped, but I think that's okay", I'm going to say: nope, you're acting immorally. I can understand where you're coming from, why your culture has trained you in this particular way, but you are wrong and that behavior is unacceptable. If you think morality is merely subjective, you can't make the same claim.
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"[T]he President of the United States is scarcely in any sense the successor of the presidents of the old Congress. The presidents of Congress were almost solely presiding officers, possessing scarcely a shred of executive or administrative functions; whereas the President of the United States is almost solely an executive officer, with no presiding duties at all. Barring a likeness in social and diplomatic precedence, the two offices are identical only in the possession of the same title."