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City Council, NYPD Address Subway Harassment
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NewsBunny
11/19/09

In reply to City Council, NYPD Address Subway Harassment
A guy tried to fell me up on the 7 last year -- it was amazing overcrowded, because all the underground lines were fucked because of flooding.

I felt a hand on my breast. And I threw my right hook. It's a punch that requires you be close to your target, and doesn't take much room to hit properly.

SOB gasped in pain and got off at the next stop.
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logruszed
11/19/09

In reply to City Council, NYPD Address Subway Harassment
Cattle prods can be had via mail order for less than $50.

If the cops can't do anything about some motherfucker whacking off on me, they have no excuse for doing something about me using a couple jillion volts on his taint.
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stopalyssatime
11/19/09

In reply to City Council, NYPD Address Subway Harassment
My best friend got followed off a subway in Brooklyn after my birthday party in Manhattan. It's 3 o'clock in the morning, she's a little tipsy and she is listening to her ipod. She could sense someone close behind her. She turns around to a man who pushes her against the wall next to her house. Luckily she had a cigarette in her hand and she burned him in the face. He kept grabbing at her until two men came and grabbed the attacker. They held him until she got in her house, then let him go. He walked away, back to the subway, and back for another R train ride to find someone else.
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Snowbunny
11/19/09

@stopalyssatime: I don't smoke, but I'm going to carry a lit cigarette with me while walking alone now, although I do use Wolverine-quality key claws already.
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Ginmar Rienne
11/19/09

In reply to City Council, NYPD Address Subway Harassment
I always feel like these are the same guys who sit next to you and then spread their legs really wide, like the family jewels are the size of basketballs. When I confronted one dude over that, he said, "I'm fine like I am." Um, no, asshole, you're not, you only paid one fair and you're encroaching on my space. Either pay the fare for me, Tweedledum, and Tweedledee down there, or move the fuck over.

And I want to punch those guys and these guys, too.
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Ipomoea
11/19/09

@Ginmar Rienne: I think this was discussed on a previous thread, and one commenter said she finally yelled at the two leg-spreading jerks on either side of her on a flight that her cunt needed some air, too. It freaked them both out so much they closed their legs.

Unknown commenter, whoever you are, know that you are my hero.
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Gumbina80
11/19/09

In reply to City Council, NYPD Address Subway Harassment
I kind of wish street harassers had a message board that I could snoop on. I feel like I understand the motives of car thieves, vandals, bank robbers, shoplifters and even some murderers. But street harassers? WTF? Who taught them that hissing and kissing sounds attract women? What do they think will happen when they comment on my ass or honk at me? Do they leave the house thinking, "I'm going to get an erection and rub it on some lady's thigh"? Do they observe long enough to make sure their victim isn't accompanied by a man? Or have they ever screwed up and bothered a woman that had a boyfriend/husband present who kicked their ass?

I don't live in a city with a subway, but I do walk everywhere and had been subject to street harassment every day. I have found it to have decreased dramatically since I adopted an 80-pound dog who accompanies me around the neighborhood.
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veronykah
11/19/09

@Gumbina80: Or else when they make the kissing or whistling sounds you can do what I do and look at your dog and say "They must me doing that for your cause I KNOW they aren't doing that to me."
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district of confusion
11/19/09

@Gumbina80: I have two large dogs, and I still get to hear crummy things such as, "Hey baby, when you gonna put me on the leash?"

BLECH!!
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femme-bot
11/19/09

@district of confusion: "You wanna get on my leash baby? OK, I'll tie you up, then light you on fire, fuckface. It will be SO HOT."
People avoid the crazy lady.
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Habibiti
11/19/09

@Gumbina80: I work in prosecution of sex crimes, and keeping up with message boards for "johns" (men who pick up street prostitutes) were part of my job at one point. It was that an eye-opening experience to read what is actually going through their mind when they look at women like that. And the answer seems to be that yea, they are pretty much thinking all women everywhere are ready and willing to accomodate their sexual needs. The only reason johns see for some of them saying "no" is that they haven't offered money.
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Pizza!Pizza!Pizza!
11/19/09

@Habibiti: I was going to recommend Googling 'escort review board' then checking out the forums about streetwalkers and 'dating.' Occasionally scary stuff.
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la.donna.pietra
11/19/09

In reply to City Council, NYPD Address Subway Harassment
A couple of years ago, I read a totally awesome article about groping on the London Tube. It featured a woman who grabbed the guy's hand, held it up, and shouted, "Does this belong to anyone? It seems to have gotten attached to my bum!" as the owner of the hand blushed in shame.

She is my hero, most days.
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wooden_shoes
11/19/09

In reply to City Council, NYPD Address Subway Harassment
Oh also, this reminds me of a great article I read once about Megan's Law - it was about this guy who was arrested for flashing. He was a little slow and he said that he thought if he flashed a woman she might be turned on and then want to date him. The article went on to say that this man had never been on a date, let alone have a girlfriend.

Funny story, but the kind of sad reality is some of the pervs we're talking about might actually be thinking the same thing - someone will get turned on and maybe I can have sex.
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Ginmar Rienne
11/19/09

@wooden_shoes: Only if they have head injuries. They might claim this as an excuse, but guys who do this get off on doing shit against womens' wishes, not in the hope that women will like them. Guys who do this, like guys who yell out, "NICE TITS!" are not guys looking for a date.

Seriously, that excuse has pissed me off since boys in grade school would do things that would count as sexual assault and everybody would say, "He just likes you!"

Yeah, you know what? IF A MAN LIKES ME, HE CAN BE NICE TO ME! How fucking hard is that? Is "Please", "Thank you," and "Good morning" such a chore that he needs a nap and a reward later?
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la.donna.pietra
11/19/09

@wooden_shoes: I suspect the logic goes something like: "Gee, I'd sure love it if random women got naked in front of me. I bet they feel the same way!" *drops trou*
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Pizza!Pizza!Pizza!
11/19/09

@Ginmar Rienne: The weird thing is that, if these people are so deluded about what half of the world's population feels and wants, they probably shouldn't be out in public at all. But no one ever argues that. It's just a miscomunication. You can't blame them.
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Ginmar Rienne
11/19/09

@Pizza!Pizza!Pizza!: They just don't care what half the world's population wants, that's the thing. And, yeah, I argue that all the time. Wait, what? You can't understand women? Sounds dangerous! Let's lock your ass up.

#tips
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wooden_shoes
11/19/09

@la.donna.pietra: exactly that though process I would say is happening

@Ginmar Rienne: Hm, actually? I wasn't saying it was an excuse, I was saying that the cognitive processes at work within these men might be bringing them to this conclusion.

Also I would say that boys are mean to girls they like when they are in elementary school. This continues into adulthood a lot of the time. Stupid? probably. Do we know how to stop it? Not really.
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femme-bot
11/19/09

@wooden_shoes: "Do we know how to stop it? Not really."
Tazers.
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Ipomoea
11/19/09

@femme-bot: Mace. Spork shivving. Large amounts of pressure applied to small areas of the feet.
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AndPreciousLittleofThat
11/19/09

In reply to City Council, NYPD Address Subway Harassment
It seems clear these per(v)ps have very little brainpower in the "if-then" department.

With the modern prevalence of tasers and the ease of fist-to-genital contact, these guys are, no pun intended, really taking their lives into their own hands.
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Benevolent_Dictatrix (patently absurd)
11/19/09

@AndPreciousLittleofThat: Actually I think these guys know that there is a very slim chance they will be physically harmed when they do this. They rely on their victims being too scared, surprised, and socially conditioned not to cause a ruckus to defend themselves.
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Pizza!Pizza!Pizza!
11/19/09

@Benevolent_Dictatrix (patently absurd): I have to agree. Especially since so many of them rely on exactly the same thing that many office harassers or even molesters rely on – the self-doubt of the victim. So many of these comments include women who weren't sure at first if it was an accident or harassment, which is natural (and I'm the same way), but we let things go way further than most men would out of fear that we'll be wrong. Or we'll make a stink and be embarrassed. Or we seriously cant believe someone would be that crude then, upon interpreting the event afterwards, realize what really happened and we want to kick ourselves.
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vonapathy
11/19/09

In reply to City Council, NYPD Address Subway Harassment
Theres currently a campaign in Chicago addressing the same thing, actually it was a group of young women who got the campaign started as a result of being harassed on the CTA and having the conductors, etc, do nothing about it. God my grammar is awful, none the less, I've encountered this a few times when I've rode the red line to my friend's house, I'm not sure why but the harassment seems to be contained to only the red line. Actually I do know why-the red line, if i recall correctly, travels through some 'unsavory' neighborhoods, and picks up all sorts of....'characters'.

About 2 years ago on new years eve my boyfriend and I were riding the red line to our friend's house, when my boyfriend was accosted and groped by some crazy crackhead who was yelling and moaning about his white penis. He pushed her away and we walked to the back of the car, no one noticed and if they did they didn't care. Was it sexual harassment? And if it was, if he reported it would anyone have cared?

Probably not, its the Chicago way after all. I'm pretty sure the Chicago campaign is just a fluff piece, I don't have much faith that the CTA employees or the Chicago police care all that much to stop the harassment.
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morninggloria
11/19/09

@vonapathy: Ever ridden the Green Line? That sucker goes exclusively through unsavory neighborhoods.
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Zulkey
11/19/09

@morninggloria: yeah, I noticed the campaign too but I also wanted to agree with morninggloria and point out that all the lines are equal opportunity for creepy pervos. I believe it was the purple line, yes, the nice evanston express, when a dude rubbed his boner against my butt for about 20 minutes.
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morninggloria
11/19/09

@Zulkey: I'm sort of tall when I wear heels, and I've had a very short man stand directly in front of me on a very crowded blue line train with his face about six inches from my boobs, just staring. Just. Staring. He never touched me, but it felt like he was motoboating me with his eyes.
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xgurl3eb
11/19/09

@morninggloria: the green line is the only line i can take to get downtown, i live 4 blocks from the stop. It's also the place i witnessed the saddest/most awkward drunken homeless person domestic dispute i've ever seen.
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morninggloria
11/19/09

@xgurl3eb: I used to live in Hyde Park and would sometimes get on at the 55th street or 51st street stop.

Don't get on at the 51st street stop. Or off.
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xgurl3eb
11/19/09

@morninggloria: noted, my usual stop is Austin (the one i live by) or the loop, so luckily i can just put in the ear buds and beeze through the...iffy...areas
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Habibiti
11/19/09

In reply to City Council, NYPD Address Subway Harassment
All subways should have signs that say, "If you can't control your hands, then we will," with a giant picture of handcuffs. That would be great.
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morninggloria promoted this comment Edited by Habibiti at 11/19/09 2:01 PM Habibiti was starred Habibiti was unstarred

Pizza!Pizza!Pizza!
11/19/09

@Habibiti: Great marketing!
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hydrogen_jukebox
11/19/09

@Habibiti: Find a way to send this in to the MTA! Their ads are in dire need of some clever.
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TudorRose
11/19/09

In reply to City Council, NYPD Address Subway Harassment
I remember this one time I was on the 2 train headed back to Brooklyn, from work. I sat down and directly across from me was this man with his hands down his sweatpants. I then did what any New Yorker would do, start looking in any other general direction, but still sort of watched because it's much more interesting than a Jet Blue ad plastered all over the place.

So, then all of a sudden the dude bends his head toward his crotch and pulls his pants fully over his head. The first thing I thought of was that SNL skit with Will Farrell and Toby Macguire in the yoga class where Will Farrell's character does pretty much the same thing and gives himself a beej.

Then, everyone in the car outright stared along with me. He stayed down there for at least the 20 minutes I was on the train, if not more. Initially, I wasn't offended as much as I was shocked and impressed by his flexibility.
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Pizza!Pizza!Pizza!
11/19/09

In reply to City Council, NYPD Address Subway Harassment
It is so encouraging that they even consider this (and women's quality of life) a problem. At the very least, it gives victims incentive to report it when it happens – even if that's usually the last thing you want to do.

And the fact that so many are sex offenders is creepy. Sort of makes the argument that these guys think they're offering compliments, or that they're totally harmless, a little harder to believe.

I'm sure everyone at hollabacknyc.com is happy!
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futuremouse
11/19/09

In reply to City Council, NYPD Address Subway Harassment
You know for all the crap NY gets for being rude or apathetic, people on the subway tend to band together in really awesome ways. I've had people (mostly women but not always) steer me away from creepy dudes, tell someone to shuttup or quietly let me know when an item of clothing has, unbeknownst to me, started revealing a bit more than I meant for it to. On an unrelated to sexual harrasment note, last week I was on the train, mumbling something about how my mouth tasted like beer and this woman just turned around handed me a piece of gum and said yup, I've been there. In other words, I love my city.
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Edited by futuremouse at 11/19/09 1:58 PM futuremouse was starred futuremouse was unstarred

futuremouse
11/19/09

@futuremouse: Just to note, I do not mean to suggest that subway harassment is not a serious issue. Just wanted to share some examples of people being awesome.
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Edited by futuremouse at 11/19/09 2:01 PM futuremouse was starred futuremouse was unstarred

sportz.star
11/19/09

@futuremouse: It's so true. Also, there was a piece on Slate recently about how sociologist have often studied subway riders, because the environment puts strangers of all sorts together and then they do interesting things -- like give a piece of gum away. [www.slate.com]

I have, however, been subway harassed. Usually later at night, uncrowded car. It's the worse and has given me on a taxis only late night rule.
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marimari
11/19/09

In reply to City Council, NYPD Address Subway Harassment
I'm curious if harassment is prevalent on other mass transit systems? in the US or abroad. I've never been a regular rider but have been on a few different systems and the creepiest experience I've had was when a homeless man followed my girlfriends and I into a Subte station in Buenos Aires with his pants down.
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Pizza!Pizza!Pizza!
11/19/09

@marimari: Paris is pretty bad if you're alone. I think some of it is just odds and consequences – if you ride the subway twice a day that's over 700 times a year. And most of these dicks know they can just hop out the door, or that you'll be too scared or shocked to say anything. It's not too much risk for them, and they never have to see you again.
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duckwise
11/19/09

In reply to City Council, NYPD Address Subway Harassment
This has happened to me...I think. The worst part is, as you state above, sometimes you sometimes just don't know if it's happening or not--especially in a packed train. You inch forward, they inch forward--but then you wonder (hoping for the best perhaps), is it just that they're being crunched in too? You try and turn around, but naturally that seems worse somehow. Plus, by the time you find someone to report it to, the offender is two stops ahead. Ugh, such a creepy and distressing experience. I'd love to see an effective strategy of combating this.
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