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Everybody Knows (She's A Femme Fatale)
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bowleserised
02/27/09

In reply to Everybody Knows (She's A Femme Fatale)
Those dames were nothing without their scripts. That's what's missing.
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DexterHaven
02/27/09

In reply to Everybody Knows (She's A Femme Fatale)
I think it is Elisabeth Bronfen who brilliantly calls the femme fatale a 'symptom of male anxiety about women', and most critics argue that she doesn't really exist, in the sense that once you look closely most of these characters, including Gilda, aren't really fatal in that sense. She is a potent myth.
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katie.scarlett.o'hara
02/27/09

In reply to Everybody Knows (She's A Femme Fatale)
Can anybody think of a recent femme fatale? I honestly can't think of one from the last few years that isn't intentionally campy (Sin City) or a throwback (The Black Dahlia, L.A. Confidential).
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Janie Jones
02/27/09

@katie.scarlett.o'hara: How about "Bound"? I haven't seen it (want to soon), but I think the two main characters in that are considered femme fatales.
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YourScreenplaySucks
02/27/09

In reply to Everybody Knows (She's A Femme Fatale)
Linda Fiorentino as the you have to see her to believe her Bridget Gregory in The Last Seduction is probably the last true movie femme fatale in the noir sense, although since it's a modern movie she doesn't have to repent one bit nor is she bad because she's been abused or a victim, but because, as she explains to her befuddled patsy, "I am a total fucking bitch". And the New York Times & I still agree she was robbed, robbed!, by the Academy.
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Hooplehead
02/27/09

In reply to Everybody Knows (She's A Femme Fatale)
What about Joan from Mad Men?
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bowleserised
02/27/09

@Hooplehead: She's a throwback. Maybe her popularity will start a few cogs shifting in some Hollywood heads?
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disco2000
02/27/09

In reply to Everybody Knows (She's A Femme Fatale)
Before I clicked through to the article, I was thinking "What about Eve from WALL-E?" and they mentioned her!

I think these types are more likely to show up in sci-fi than in mainstream nowadays, maybe because us geeks like throwbacks to old stuff. I think the Sixes (especially Caprica Six and Head Six) on Battlestar Galactica echo the femme fatales of old Hollywood.
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water baby
02/27/09

In reply to Everybody Knows (She's A Femme Fatale)
I realized Hollywood was seriously fucked up the day I realized that a guy taking a role so he can serve primarily as eye candy for female viewers - say, Chace Crawford on Gossip Girl - is an oddity, whereas 90% of female roles seem to be exactly that.
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Aysel
02/27/09

In reply to Everybody Knows (She's A Femme Fatale)
Can anyone recommend old-time movies in which the heroines remain awesome, smart and capable. I've recently started getting into Hepburn Tracy movies but they must have included a clause to knock Hepburn's character into submissive humility. Her characters start out smart and generally awesome and then Tracy's characters end up knocking her down a peg.

Granted I haven't seen many old movies yet so there's probably a plethora of cool femme fatales.
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Mkp-hearts-NYC
02/27/09

@Aysel: To Have And Have Not, for sure, and try the Hepburn movies she made with Cary Grant. Also "Stagedoor" and "All About Eve"
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gobblegirl
02/27/09

In reply to Everybody Knows (She's A Femme Fatale)
If I'm having a bad day, I put on red lipstick and pretend my life is a noir pastiche. Works every time.
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JessicaLovejoy: Laughing, riding, cornholing!
02/27/09

In reply to Everybody Knows (She's A Femme Fatale)
That reminds me..Double Indemnity is on again.

Oh, that ankle bracelet..
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YourScreenplaySucks
02/27/09

@Jessica Hussein Lovejoy is stimulatin' ur package: I wonder if I know what you mean?
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Rare Affinity
02/27/09

In reply to Everybody Knows (She's A Femme Fatale)
But Hollywood only allowed femme fatales to be in films if they paid for their transgressions by the end of the final reel, either with their lives or by being "tamed" by the male lead.
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PhDork
02/27/09

@Rare Affinity: And of course their existence (and yes, punishment) reasserted that beautiful, smart, sexual women with their own plans were DANGEROUS and UNNATURAL. Lest all you bobbysoxers out there get any ideas.
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rosasparks
02/27/09

In reply to Everybody Knows (She's A Femme Fatale)
Since I've been babbling, non stop, about social constructs and gender constructs, for the past 2 days. Can I ask a question?

How is a femme fatale any different than a shrieky, crazed Bride Wars character or stripper with a heart of gold, or...

Does a femme fatale actually have more depth than those characters? My god, I love me some Marlene Dietrich and Clara Bow, but still...
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BrutallyHonestBabes (aka Mrs. Sarah.of.a.Lesser.Hobbit)
02/27/09

@rosasparks is entertained by bobby jindal: I think yes, maybe not so much in the actual script, but in the lives given to the characters by the actresses. She may be misbehaving, but she's being much more independent than the bridezilla who is a slave to a bridal magazine and a heap of social cliches.
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rosasparks
02/27/09

@BrutallyHonestZombies: I would agree. I guess my question comes from the fact that, ultimately, a femme fatale is rarely rewarded for her behavior. She needs to be set 'straight', or punished for her bad deeds.

Which isn't to say that Marlene Dietrich wasn't a complete and utter badass, but you get my point. Isn't it just a different twist on trying to cut a woman down? A 'look, even an independent, saucy woman is just no good.' type thing.
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BrutallyHonestBabes (aka Mrs. Sarah.of.a.Lesser.Hobbit)
02/27/09

@rosasparks is entertained by bobby jindal: True, there were always "consequences" - hmmm time to write a screenplay about a 'bad' girl who gets no comeuppance!
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water baby
02/27/09

@rosasparks is entertained by bobby jindal: For me the best example would be Mae West and the characters she portrayed. Ms. West's incarnations would not have been caught DEAD carrying on in a crazy manner over a wedding or a man. And unlike a stripper, she owns her own sexuality...she sleeps with men for her own pleasure and on her own whims, rather than succumbing to their demands. I guess basically she does what SHE wants, rather than changing herself to suit men's desires.
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rosasparks
02/27/09

@water baby: Agreed. And I'm not disagreeing that femme fatale's aren't in ownership of their womanity.

Maybe I'm talking more about how the femme fatale was TREATED for her independence, as opposed to her existence and portrayal?

Mostly, though, it's sad that the femme fatale is not as prevalent in films. But, I also think that there aren't a lot of actresses that could play one. (sure Angelina, but I can't actually even think of another actress who could.) I am so exhausted and fried today, I can't think of anything anymore.

TGIF.
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Whiskey and Popcorn
02/27/09

In reply to Everybody Knows (She's A Femme Fatale)
My question- why does it always have to be one or the other?. I long for the day when female characters are allowed to be as complex as male ones.
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BrutallyHonestBabes (aka Mrs. Sarah.of.a.Lesser.Hobbit)
02/27/09

In reply to Everybody Knows (She's A Femme Fatale)
I love you, Clara

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Glitterbug (likes life shaken, not stirred)
02/27/09

@BrutallyHonestZombies: Joint Queen of my girl crushes, alongside the phenomenal Liz Taylor.
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BrutallyHonestBabes (aka Mrs. Sarah.of.a.Lesser.Hobbit)
02/27/09

@Glitterbug: Clara is Queen of my Universe, but Liz is WAY up there. *Sigh!*
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NefariousNewt
02/27/09

In reply to Everybody Knows (She's A Femme Fatale)
Rita Hayworth... *sigh*
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LaMorena
02/27/09

@NefariousNewt: One of my favorite quotes is from Shawshank Redemption about Rita in Gilda: "I love it when she does that shit with her hair."
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