You know, Cimorene, not having kids is fucking awesome too. And childless women can understand the sexism and be happy for kids at awards. But does the understanding go the other way?
@georgespenser000001002: Right, I don't have kids. Not even close. I don't even have a job, really, since I'm a student. Also, don't plan to ever have kids, as I'm happily childfree and happy about that. So I am aware that it's fucking awesome, but thanks for the tip.
But most young women without children, including myself until recently, think about things like "harassment" and "wage gaps" when sexual discrimination comes up, without really understanding how much issues of motherhood not only contribute to harassment and wage gaps, but are totally valid issues by themselves. Because I think I used to feel like women who chose to have babies were choosing their choice and they'd have to deal with the consequences of their choice, and so "mother's issues" were not "women's issues," because not all women have kids. But that's simplistic, naive, and kind of spectacularly dumb. But issues of motherhood and career are usually shunted into their own world of discussion and discrimination, instead of being dealt with as one more aspect of run of the mill misogyny. And I really liked that she explicitly brought them together.
The fact that she had her kids with her in that picture is awesome, but it's even more fucking bad ass awesome that she mentioned it in terms of feminism. Holy cow, that's just such an abstract (to men and many childless women) understanding of the ways sexism works in the world. I'm not surprised that she is aware of it, obviously, but I'm so happy that she specifically talked about having kids and the way women who work deal with child-rearing compared to their male colleagues. She is a super A++ star.
@Cimorene: I couldn't figure out why she was talking about having her kids in the picture until you posted this. My thoughts were along the lines of wondering if she felt she had to prove she was a real woman or something. It makes sense that she wanted them in the picture with her as a way to say, "Look, you CAN have a kick-ass science career and have a great family too!" Because a lot of women still think it's not possible to do both.
On the other hand, I hate that she feels the need to do this. Because it does send this other message that somehow women have to justify how their career choices affect their family (or lack thereof). We don't see male Nobel Prize winners pictured with their kids because we don't judge men's accomplishments based on how they affected their families. We judge them and their accomplishments based on their work alone. I wish it could be this way for women too.
@AnotherJenn: I think, though, that that's part of the point. Or, at least, I don't think it is about justifying that she could have kids and have a career. Lots of scientists have kids and a career. I took it as a statement of how a woman does not have to give up things that are essentially female (making babies) or coded feminine (primary caregiver) even to be a Nobel Prize winning scientist. And, even more, that in a better world the men who won their prizes would have their kids onstage, too. Because it isn't about justifying "I was a good mom, too!" as much as "You don't have to choose one or the other, just like men don't have to choose," we just need to work it out so that it's possible to have both and not feel guilty or crazy. I guess I read it less about guilt and justification and more about a sort of ideal synthesis of what is "feminine" in our world, like having kids, with what is "masculine," like science and Nobel Prizes. I think that rather than aspiring to be more like men, and rather than fighting for an equality that makes men more like women, the world needs to make men more like women in that women (or I suppose "women") tend to allow their careers and lives bleed into one another, whereas "men" tend to compartmentalize. And the "feminine" way is healthier for us all. I think.
I think my use of scare quotes has become erratic as the day goes on, and for much of this comment I've been talking about men and women as concepts of genders, not actual people.
@Cimorene: "I think that rather than aspiring to be more like men, and rather than fighting for an equality that makes women more like men, the world needs to make men more like women in that women (or I suppose "women") tend to allow their careers and lives bleed into one another, whereas "men" tend to compartmentalize. And the "feminine" way is healthier for us all. I think. "
I agree, and I think that ties in to what I said about how even people without kids should be able to have better life balance than the current average workplace allows. I do understand that this is what she was going for and I like that. I agree with her that I would like to see more men bring their families up on stage when their big accomplishments are being rewarded and to see more men talking about how they balance family and personal lives.
ah, I love the random science photo from the news media.
Fancy production crew walks into lab: Hold up a beaker... It doesn't matter if you haven't toucher a beaker in 10 years.... let's mix up some random colored water and put it in various beakers that you can hold up.... cells growing with no context to the shot.. do it.
@acookieaday: OH OH OH!!! The Today Show came and did some filming in a lab I worked in once. It was hilarious filming "science". In this case, it consisted of them having me pipet green liquid into a 96 well plate with a multi-channel pipet and then picking up the plate and looking at it Seriously.
The green liquid? 1X PBS with calibration dye in it. Total nonsense. But damn, did it look good in the context of the piece they did.
@Runaddict: We had a similar experience in my lab. They got the professor to pipet pink bacteria-killing liquid into some tubes, which is funny on a lot of levels...including everyone being worried that our boss had picked up their tubes by mistake.
@Raederle: these stories are great! kinda off topic but i saw Craig Mello give a talk a while back and he showed this clip from the CBS nightly news of their "cartoon of RNAi". it was sooooo funny. Apparently RNAi is a giant piece of double stranded RNA that opens and closes like PAC MAN and chomps on proteins and turns them into little bits. i am sure this is on the internet somewhere.
I absolutely love the part where she's about to devote the proceeds to research and grad students. I guess it's not that surprising considering what she's winning it for, but still. Do you think she has any interest in adopting one admiring, grown-ass woman?
That she "does not plan to keep her half for herself, explaining she intends to devote the proceeds to supporting research and funding graduate students" makes me (a poor, underfunded grad student) love her even more.
I'm also loving her tie dyed shirt, kind of a lot.
Most of all, though, from what others (on other blogs) have said, she's the sort of academic who is thorough, not flashy, but usually *right*. Shows you don't need to have a bestselling book (ala Freakonomics) or be a world-famous columnist (ala Krugman) to be, nonetheless, slowly and steadily making real, important progress on some very important issues.
Okay, yeah, that's cool, but let's get to the real point of interest with any woman - her clothes. Do you think tye dye will become the new trend for aspiring economists? How do we feel about the detail with the green undershirt? Most importantly, where did she get it?
Counting the three women from this year, there have been only 15 female science laureates (though thanks to the awesomeness of Marie Curie, they hold a total of 16 prizes.
The 15 women won over the course of 106 years, from 1903 (when Curie the elder won for Physics) to the present. One-third of the laureates were honored in the last FIVE YEARS. If you go back another 27 years from that to 1977, you get another third of the laureautes.
In what I'm sure is a pure and unadulterated coincidence, male-female enrollment in college became equal in 1980. I mean, surely it is ludicrous to suggest that women have historically performed worse in math and science because they had unequal educational opportunities! The fact that females are starting to receive science Nobels in rapidly increasing numbers about one research career after women achieved educational parity is just a funny aberration, and shouldn't be held up as proof that encouraging science education for girls is worthwhile.
And we definitely shouldn't write Larry Summers gloating e-mails telling him to take his biological difference and shove it up his blastopore.
This might be my only opportunity to trot out my fun Nobel-related fact, so here you are: the city of Condon, Oregon has the highest proportion of Nobel winners. Two (and a long time ago), but their population is <800.
Store this in your brain and hope it comes up in bar trivia sometime.
Yonath is the first woman in about 45 years to win the Chemistry Nobel. It's interesting to me how pre-1970, every female Nobel winner in the hard sciences (w/ one exception) won for chemistry &/or physics but after 1970, every female winner has been in the life sciences (i.e. physiology or medicine).
I wonder what the demographics for hard science Nobels will look like from here on out, now that many women who benefited from increased access to scientific careers starting in the 1970s are now at a stage in their careers where their work can be considered for the prize (e.g. the work for which Yonath was honored was conducted in the 70s).
@YourScreenplaySucks: Well, Marie Curie is the only Nobel laureate in history to have won two prizes, in Physics (1903) and Chemistry (1911). But wait: there's MORE! Her daughter Irène Joliot-Curie also won a Nobel in Chemistry (1935).
I looked up the four after hearing the good news and Herta Muller (w/ umlauts) particularly struck me. I'm hoping that the prize will result in some English translations of her stories. They all sound fascinating and hopefully she'll now receive the international acclaim that I'm sure she deserves.
Yay, her! I'm always so pysched to see women win scientific prizes.
I really feel like I missed out on science. I had a learning disability that was only discovered in 10th grade that made it near impossible for me to remember formulas and do math. Because of that, science has always been a nightmare for me. I remember tearful nights of trying to go through Chem homework I just literally could not understand.
Now that I'm older, I watch tons of TV programs about "lite" science (I guess) and I'm absolutely FASCINATED by it all. I wish I could go back in time and become a scientist. I love it. I wish there was a way for me to sort of understand it all now, apart from watching the Discovery Channel.
Any Jezzies have any good tips on easy science books or things I can do?
@Eldritch: Bill Bryson has a great science book called A Short History of Nearly Everything. There's the ADHD version A Really Short History of Nearly Everything as well as a beautifully illustrated version for the visual learner. The audiobook version is great too, especially for dyslexics.
@foolish-rain: I am reading the Bryson book right now, and I LOVE IT. The part where he talks about how, if there were aliens trying to communicate with us, they'd be communicating with us as we were 200 years ago, and hence would compliment us on the handsomeness of our horses and our mastery of whale oil cracked me up SO BAD. Fuck, I am laughing just typing it out.
10/13/09
10/13/09
But most young women without children, including myself until recently, think about things like "harassment" and "wage gaps" when sexual discrimination comes up, without really understanding how much issues of motherhood not only contribute to harassment and wage gaps, but are totally valid issues by themselves. Because I think I used to feel like women who chose to have babies were choosing their choice and they'd have to deal with the consequences of their choice, and so "mother's issues" were not "women's issues," because not all women have kids. But that's simplistic, naive, and kind of spectacularly dumb. But issues of motherhood and career are usually shunted into their own world of discussion and discrimination, instead of being dealt with as one more aspect of run of the mill misogyny. And I really liked that she explicitly brought them together.
10/13/09
10/13/09
On the other hand, I hate that she feels the need to do this. Because it does send this other message that somehow women have to justify how their career choices affect their family (or lack thereof). We don't see male Nobel Prize winners pictured with their kids because we don't judge men's accomplishments based on how they affected their families. We judge them and their accomplishments based on their work alone. I wish it could be this way for women too.
10/13/09
I think my use of scare quotes has become erratic as the day goes on, and for much of this comment I've been talking about men and women as concepts of genders, not actual people.
10/13/09
I agree, and I think that ties in to what I said about how even people without kids should be able to have better life balance than the current average workplace allows. I do understand that this is what she was going for and I like that. I agree with her that I would like to see more men bring their families up on stage when their big accomplishments are being rewarded and to see more men talking about how they balance family and personal lives.
10/13/09
Fancy production crew walks into lab: Hold up a beaker... It doesn't matter if you haven't toucher a beaker in 10 years.... let's mix up some random colored water and put it in various beakers that you can hold up.... cells growing with no context to the shot.. do it.
10/13/09
The green liquid? 1X PBS with calibration dye in it. Total nonsense. But damn, did it look good in the context of the piece they did.
10/13/09
10/13/09
10/13/09
10/13/09
10/12/09
10/12/09
Go, Elinor! And Go IU!!
10/12/09
Hooray hooray for IUB!
10/12/09
10/12/09
I'm also loving her tie dyed shirt, kind of a lot.
Most of all, though, from what others (on other blogs) have said, she's the sort of academic who is thorough, not flashy, but usually *right*. Shows you don't need to have a bestselling book (ala Freakonomics) or be a world-famous columnist (ala Krugman) to be, nonetheless, slowly and steadily making real, important progress on some very important issues.
10/12/09
10/12/09
10/12/09
10/10/09
The 15 women won over the course of 106 years, from 1903 (when Curie the elder won for Physics) to the present. One-third of the laureates were honored in the last FIVE YEARS. If you go back another 27 years from that to 1977, you get another third of the laureautes.
In what I'm sure is a pure and unadulterated coincidence, male-female enrollment in college became equal in 1980. I mean, surely it is ludicrous to suggest that women have historically performed worse in math and science because they had unequal educational opportunities! The fact that females are starting to receive science Nobels in rapidly increasing numbers about one research career after women achieved educational parity is just a funny aberration, and shouldn't be held up as proof that encouraging science education for girls is worthwhile.
And we definitely shouldn't write Larry Summers gloating e-mails telling him to take his biological difference and shove it up his blastopore.
10/09/09
Store this in your brain and hope it comes up in bar trivia sometime.
10/09/09
I wonder what the demographics for hard science Nobels will look like from here on out, now that many women who benefited from increased access to scientific careers starting in the 1970s are now at a stage in their careers where their work can be considered for the prize (e.g. the work for which Yonath was honored was conducted in the 70s).
10/09/09
10/10/09
10/10/09
10/09/09
10/09/09
10/05/09
I really feel like I missed out on science. I had a learning disability that was only discovered in 10th grade that made it near impossible for me to remember formulas and do math. Because of that, science has always been a nightmare for me. I remember tearful nights of trying to go through Chem homework I just literally could not understand.
Now that I'm older, I watch tons of TV programs about "lite" science (I guess) and I'm absolutely FASCINATED by it all. I wish I could go back in time and become a scientist. I love it. I wish there was a way for me to sort of understand it all now, apart from watching the Discovery Channel.
Any Jezzies have any good tips on easy science books or things I can do?
10/05/09
10/05/09
I LOVE YOU BILL BRYSON.