I wish they HAD awarded the prize to Kylie Minogue. I mean hello, "Your Disco Needs You" anyone? "So let's dance through all of this/war is over for a bit/From Soho to Singapore/from the mainland to the shore" - I rest my case.
@meritxell: When I saw her in concert a few years ago, her back dancing boys were all in sailor costumes. I think they'd be the best Peacekeepers ever.
Hey, I have it on good authority from Ms. Minogue that EVERYBODY is doing a brand-new dance now, and what could be more peaceful than a world united in Locomotion?
The Nobel has traditionally been given for two reasons: to celebrate and commend a lifetime of service and accomplishment towards peace, or to encourage and promote the cause of an individual (or individuals) who are actively attempting to create or promote peace in the world.
While a case for Obama could be made in the second category, those that have been awarded for ongoing work have traditionally been those that lack the international profile to accomplish such deeds themselves; the prize money and the platform that the award provides can have a transformative effect for such causes.
The President of the United States, no matter who that person is, does not need such a platform. [Note: TR and Wilson's Nobels, it can be argued, were for the first category, and so are exempt from this.]
This trend towards this sort of expansion of the award's criteria started with Gore's 1997 Nobel, but today changes it entirely.
So yeah, I'm okay with it -- I just think there are many other individuals (my vote would have gone to Tsvangirai, for what it's worth) whose work could have used both the funding and the spotlight.
@ithacabaron: Well said - this is kind of where I stand on this matter too. When I read articles about the frontrunners for the Nobel Peace Prize, Obama wasn't mentioned. I didn't even realize he had been nominated. There are always so many people worthy of such a prize, and I don't deny for a second that Obama could be one of them. The publicity and money could have done other causes so much more good, and now in the wake of the "controversy" surrounding this award (and all the continual, inexplicably vicious Obama backlash that's fueling it) the stories of those people and the work that they do are getting buried and forgotten.
I would be more supportive of this decision if I actually thought Obama was making plans to end the wars in the Iraq and Afghanistan, not sending in more troops to prolong it.
I understand how he has changed the international political atmosphere and made things more peaceable between the US and western europe, but he doesn't seem as concerned with ending the war(s) as he did during the election. I think bringing wars to their ends is just about the most peaceable thing a world leader can do. I, for one, would wait for any indication that this actually what he plans to do, before lavishing awards and peace prizes on him.
It seems kind of contradictory to receive a peace prize one day and then deliver a speech asking for further troop deployment the next.
So all this shows is that the Nobel Peace Prize has officially jumped the shark, and that the committee that selected him is completely tone-deaf and out of touch with reality. Since WHEN is it appropriate to pre-emptively give someone an award, for things they MIGHT do in the future, or in order to nudge them in the right direction?
And if that really IS the case, if everyone agrees that the Nobel is something that can be used pre-emptively, then I think its time to stop paying attention to the Nobel Peace Prize.
I'm absolutely furious at Obama for even accepting this award. I was so sure he wasn't going to -- nobody is that self-deluded, are they? Well, Barrack seems to be.
@HidingInCanada: if he didn't accept, it would look like a big snub and everyone would know he was just doing it to try to appeal to the far right. The committee created a no-win situation here. However, in his initial comments this morning, Obama did say that he does not feel he deserves this award-- yet. That's about the best he could do with what he's been given, I think.
@HidingInCanada: The only person who has declined the Nobel Peace Prize was Lê Ðức Thọ, a Vietnamese revolutionary who helped negotiate the Paris Peace Accords. Not accepting would have looked conceited, condescending, and rude. He didn't ask for the award or do anything to suggest he wanted it, but not accepting would have just been ridiculous.
@shoroko: I guess. I hadn't looked at it that way. I don't think the negative fall out if he turned it down would have been THAT intense, especially since many of his supporters are completely dumbfounded by his acceptance. It really does look terrible for him -- like he has I think it would have a larger fall-out overseas, and the Norwegians would probably be pretty pissed off, but come on. Aren't Obama's ratings back home the most important thing right now? And Obama already has enough popularity overseas, he can take a hit or two.
My main problem, then, is with the freaking Nobel committee. How much do you have to have your head in the sand to believe that this could actually be GOOD for Obama? That giving him this prize would help him achieve his FP goals? Its making him look like a fool in the States, because its just reinforcing the suspicions we've all had about the man (all hype and no action!), especially since he has very few real accomplishments to point to, in the few months he has been president.
Why couldn't those morons have told Obama about the prize in private first, so as to give him a chance to accept or decline without a political fallout? They fucking did it for John Nash (according to A Beautiful Mind).
What a wonderful thing to wake up to this morning. I'm proud of the President, again, and am tuning out the arguments and 'oh he didn't deserve it's until some other day.
Are people really so numbed by the last eight years of antagonistic American jingoism? Bush went out of his way to alienate every fuckin’ country he could find on the map then Cheney helped him find the rest.
I stand in awe of people who think Obama does not deserve this award. He inherited a shitstorm of a mess. You think he owns a damned magic wand to pass over everything and make it all better? "Oh, he didn’t do this or that or this and OMG we’re still at war!"
It’s been ten months. I bet every day he sits back, releases a good, long swear and thinks, "We need bigger shovels to shovel away all the shit."
@Rose.Selavy.Needs.A.Drink: I'm not reallyt following the logic here. How does inheriting a mess qualify you for a major international award? It has only been ten months, so I'm not ready to write off Obama's presidency, at all, but he's barely had time to do anything, he's barely done anything, and much of what he has done (continuing operations in Iraq with no end date, calling for increased troops in Afghanistan, as he's done all along, not actually closing Gitmo, killing the public option and thereby turning health care reform into a poverty tax that goes straight to insurance company's pockets, being so conciliatory toward idiocy that it's controlling the terms of national debate, and allowing his justice department to not only not move forward with an equal rights agenda, but to write a brief actively arguing against the rights of gay americans) has not actually made the mess any better, and has certainly not been in the interest of peace, even if you think some of it was wise or necessary.
@Rose.Selavy.Needs.A.Drink: Whereas I find it ironic that a guy who talked so much about peace is escalating the shit out of the war in Afghanistan, killing civilians, and increasing the defense budget to new heights.
We already spend more on defense than every other nation in the world combined. We can't have fucking health care, but we can have endless undeclared war?
I think in this case, the Nobel institute itself is hoping to sow some seeds of peace, rather than just commend it after the fact. Obama is far from perfect, but I believe that he is the kind of person who, after receiving a Nobel, will feel the need to live up to it for the rest of his life. As anyone should.
The Audacity of Hope has been kind of timid. To review:
He hasn't closed Guantanamo yet.
Still operating black sites.
Defended DOMA.
Hasn't opened the way for torture prosecutions.
Healthcare Reform hasn't happened yet.
He's not Nobel Peace Prize worthy quite yet. In fact, I'd like to hear why he IS. Or is he merely benefiting from the low expectations that come from following up the worst U.S. president of ALL time?
@KATE!: No, it's not. The press says that a lot, but it's genuinely not dead. It's in the House bill and as this one's going to be wrapped up in reconciliation, away from Max Baucus and his health insurance industry cronies, we'll get some version of it.
It's just kind of weird to give it to somebody who still blows up things, even if you think there is good to be done from blowing up said things.
I think the prize should be awarded for unabashedly peaceful efforts, and then there won't be as much of a consensus problem.
Also, I'm a realist prick who thinks an award will amount to bullshit in terms of foreign policy, so give it to some guy in the Bangladesh who gave up his life to innocculate kids or something. This is why boxing has weight classes.
Despite preconceptions, the award is either given to those who have accomplished great work OR those who have the potential to do so (ala Brandt or Arafat).
So this isn't that unusual.
Other than that, what NefariousNewt said in the other thread.
You know, I personally am perplexed by the Nobel committee's choice...
but I'm also insulted at the dumbass conservatives on my Facebook feed who are like "HEY NOW I CAN WIN THE NOBEL PRIZE TOO HUH HUH HUH!"
Uh, no, asshole... last time I checked, you hadn't accomplished nearly one-tenth of what Obama has in his life. Whether he "really deserves this honor" may be debatable, but the fact that his accomplishments have surpassed that of some entitled 17-year-old brat is not.
@Erda: I have the singular privilege of having only liberal American friends, and I keep hearing your stories about Facebook statuses with fear and loathing.
@PilgrimSoul: I hid someone because she wouldn't stop rattling about her pregnancy, and by coincidence, she's also a big Obama hater. Two birds, one stone.
@Erda: My cousin had one of those referencing apparently not having to work for it, etc and so forth. This from a guy who has been in college for 6 plus years because he keeps failing the same two classes over and over again. Win!
Omigod, I didn't know it existed. You seriously just made my day. I was already loving, stfumarrieds, parents, and believers...but this, this is nirvana! lol
@PurpleFlamingo: Thank you! And as for his role in both of those ongoing wars--he inherited those two massive debacles and is doing the best he can to ease us out of them. I knew that he wouldn't just declare the mess in the Middle East "over and done!" and pull the troops home in his first year. It takes TIME to do these things properly!
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While a case for Obama could be made in the second category, those that have been awarded for ongoing work have traditionally been those that lack the international profile to accomplish such deeds themselves; the prize money and the platform that the award provides can have a transformative effect for such causes.
The President of the United States, no matter who that person is, does not need such a platform. [Note: TR and Wilson's Nobels, it can be argued, were for the first category, and so are exempt from this.]
This trend towards this sort of expansion of the award's criteria started with Gore's 1997 Nobel, but today changes it entirely.
So yeah, I'm okay with it -- I just think there are many other individuals (my vote would have gone to Tsvangirai, for what it's worth) whose work could have used both the funding and the spotlight.
10/09/09
10/09/09
10/09/09
I understand how he has changed the international political atmosphere and made things more peaceable between the US and western europe, but he doesn't seem as concerned with ending the war(s) as he did during the election. I think bringing wars to their ends is just about the most peaceable thing a world leader can do. I, for one, would wait for any indication that this actually what he plans to do, before lavishing awards and peace prizes on him.
It seems kind of contradictory to receive a peace prize one day and then deliver a speech asking for further troop deployment the next.
10/09/09
And if that really IS the case, if everyone agrees that the Nobel is something that can be used pre-emptively, then I think its time to stop paying attention to the Nobel Peace Prize.
I'm absolutely furious at Obama for even accepting this award. I was so sure he wasn't going to -- nobody is that self-deluded, are they? Well, Barrack seems to be.
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Talk about the soft bigotry of low expectations.
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My main problem, then, is with the freaking Nobel committee. How much do you have to have your head in the sand to believe that this could actually be GOOD for Obama? That giving him this prize would help him achieve his FP goals? Its making him look like a fool in the States, because its just reinforcing the suspicions we've all had about the man (all hype and no action!), especially since he has very few real accomplishments to point to, in the few months he has been president.
Why couldn't those morons have told Obama about the prize in private first, so as to give him a chance to accept or decline without a political fallout? They fucking did it for John Nash (according to A Beautiful Mind).
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I stand in awe of people who think Obama does not deserve this award. He inherited a shitstorm of a mess. You think he owns a damned magic wand to pass over everything and make it all better? "Oh, he didn’t do this or that or this and OMG we’re still at war!"
It’s been ten months. I bet every day he sits back, releases a good, long swear and thinks, "We need bigger shovels to shovel away all the shit."
I am clapping for Obama.
There, that’s much better!
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10/09/09
[mediamatters.org]
Beck is going bonkers.
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We already spend more on defense than every other nation in the world combined. We can't have fucking health care, but we can have endless undeclared war?
The peace prize is a joke. See: Kissinger, Henry.
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10/09/09
The Audacity of Hope has been kind of timid. To review:
He hasn't closed Guantanamo yet.
Still operating black sites.
Defended DOMA.
Hasn't opened the way for torture prosecutions.
Healthcare Reform hasn't happened yet.
He's not Nobel Peace Prize worthy quite yet. In fact, I'd like to hear why he IS. Or is he merely benefiting from the low expectations that come from following up the worst U.S. president of ALL time?
10/09/09
One of those.
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I think the prize should be awarded for unabashedly peaceful efforts, and then there won't be as much of a consensus problem.
Also, I'm a realist prick who thinks an award will amount to bullshit in terms of foreign policy, so give it to some guy in the Bangladesh who gave up his life to innocculate kids or something. This is why boxing has weight classes.
10/09/09
So this isn't that unusual.
Other than that, what NefariousNewt said in the other thread.
10/09/09
but I'm also insulted at the dumbass conservatives on my Facebook feed who are like "HEY NOW I CAN WIN THE NOBEL PRIZE TOO HUH HUH HUH!"
Uh, no, asshole... last time I checked, you hadn't accomplished nearly one-tenth of what Obama has in his life. Whether he "really deserves this honor" may be debatable, but the fact that his accomplishments have surpassed that of some entitled 17-year-old brat is not.
The arrogance of this crap just astounds me.
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Omigod, I didn't know it existed. You seriously just made my day. I was already loving, stfumarrieds, parents, and believers...but this, this is nirvana! lol
10/09/09
Well he may not have quantifiably accomplished anything YET... but he sure as hell hasn't started 2 wars either.
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