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Why Won't Sexist Advertising Go Away?

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HistoricUpstart
12/09/08

In reply to Why Won't Sexist Advertising Go Away?
Wow, a lot of the comments in this thread are discouraging me greatly. I think I'm giving up on Jez for the day. Holy troll invasion, Batman!
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hellosunshine
12/09/08

@HistoricUpstart: There's been a lot of that in the past week or so, both here and on Gawker.
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GildaKorn
12/09/08

In reply to Why Won't Sexist Advertising Go Away?
None of the ads in those photos are sexist. You could replace the women in them with men. You might have to market them in different magazines (perhaps male-gay oriented or something), though.

I think the author is being way, way too sensitive here.
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SarahMC
12/09/08

@GildaKorn: Pfft. Yeah, you COULD replace the women with men, but no advertiser would, so you're talking about a hypothetical. It could happen, but it doesn't, which is what makes it sexist!
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Traveshamockery
12/09/08

In reply to Why Won't Sexist Advertising Go Away?
Offensive to me as well is the ubiquity of "Stupid Man" ads - the ones with the stupid dad, or stupid husband, doing something incredibly stupid while the completely together woman rolls her eyes and smiles knowingly about her "other child".

One example is a Dodge ad that ran last year. The man was grilling in the back yard, explaining why they bought the big V8 engine. The woman, trimming bushes, explains about all the safety features they got. Meanwhile, the man manages to catch himself on fire and run around like a fool while the woman shakes her head in polite embarrassment.

Had the woman cut her finger off at the end of the commercial while the man shook his head and chuckled, there would have been insane outrage. But as it is, "stupid man" advertising is fully socially accepted and considered funny. Applied to anything but a white, straight man, that same concept would be viciously attacked. As is, it's par for the course. And almost EVERYONE is doing it.
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clevernamehere
12/09/08

@InfiniTrent: I don't like the dumb men ads either, but that's not what the post is about. This comment feels like a discussion heist.
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SarahMC
12/09/08

@InfiniTrent: I think it's a Stanley Steemer commercial that markets to women by telling them "With kids, pets, and husbands, who has time to clean up blah blah blah..." I can't remember the exact words but it just ads "husbands" into the mix as though wives are SUPPOSED to be mommies to their mates. It makes me so angry.
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SarahMC
12/09/08

@clevernamehere: Ack, I didn't even think of that. Stupid me. The only people who regularly critique and complain about Dumb Man ads are feminists, anyway. And the occassional What About Teh Menz dood. Because they reinforce the same tired attitudes about women that have kept us down forever (the men are too stupid to clean, so their wives have to do everything! But men's brains suddenly turn on when it comes to running companies and contries, of course).
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Traveshamockery
12/09/08

@SarahMC: It wasn't intended to be a discussion heist...I think the comment applies based on the post's title.

Let's be clear - I think the "gang rape" ad and the like are a much bigger problem than the "stupid men" ads...women are the targets of sexist advertising much more often than men, and to greater harm. I just wanted to bring up another part of the issue, which often gets a pass.

Some (not you) seem to subscribe to the idea that sexism only affects women. That's like saying only African Americans are affected by racism (is there any worse concept than 'reverse racism'? It's all just plain racism).
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clevernamehere
12/09/08

@InfiniTrent: Okay, but the post is all about women in ads. A comment about those ads with a request to have a post about stupid men ads would have read differently to me. Or bringing up what the women as object ads say about men (it isn't exactly flattering).
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katylostherart
12/09/08

@clevernamehere: the post was about sexist advertising. there's currently two genders in western society and three in others. anything biased against someone or some group based on gender alone is sexist.
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clevernamehere
12/09/08

@katylostherart: Actually, no. The title was about sexist, the post was about sexist images of women.
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Cam/ron
12/09/08

In reply to Why Won't Sexist Advertising Go Away?
I miss the old ads that placed phallic images onto icecubes in a glass of Scotch. My psychology class had an extra credit assignment where students had to find them in magazine ads. Good times.

I can't imagine sexist and shock ads going away anytime soon. The consumer goods industry is becoming more overcrowded and advertisers are doing their damnest to grab public attention. Public outrage is great publicity for them - I never saw most of these noted ads until Jezebel posted them.
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Kali Mama
12/09/08

In reply to Why Won't Sexist Advertising Go Away?
A subdivision of the Slutz category is the ethnic / exotic mandingo / yellow fever token person of color.

I'm afraid railing against these things is an exercise in futility. There will always be people buying the products (like, omg totally don't be so uptight! WOOHOO *frenches BFF*), more importantly there will always be women and men willing to play the whore or other denigrating image.
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Kali Mama
12/09/08

@Kali Mama: Grammar I have not, word order I must. Argh!

That should be "or any other denigrating images"
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stacyinbean
12/09/08

@Kali Mama: I'm sorry but mandingo has me in a fit of giggles!
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iheartapocalypse
12/09/08

In reply to Why Won't Sexist Advertising Go Away?
Sex sells to men because of biology.

Sex sells to women because of thousands of years of institutional cultural brainwashing.
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SarahMC
12/09/08

@iheartapocalypse: Again are you using the word "sex" when what you really mean is women's sexualized bodies?
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SarahMC
12/09/08

@SarahMC: Should be a comma after again, as I wasn't accusing you of repeating something.
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The HZA.
12/09/08

In reply to Why Won't Sexist Advertising Go Away?
Advertising I do like? Free Credit Report Dot Com!
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VaginaWig is A Merkin
12/09/08

@The HZA.: I have such a crush on that guy.
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The HZA.
12/09/08

@TheVaginaWig: Me toooooo. Some people don't get it. I love the new one with him at the ren faire.
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Flackette Goes Retro
12/09/08

In reply to Why Won't Sexist Advertising Go Away?
The BMW ad is just disgusting. Equating a woman with a car - a possession to ride, own and enjoy? Blech.
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thelawschooldropout
12/09/08

In reply to Why Won't Sexist Advertising Go Away?
I also think it's important to acknowledge that presenting women as sexually available objects in alcohol ads is dangerous especially considering the connection between alcohol consumption and violence (particularly sexual violence) against women. I think ignoring that is completely irresponsible on the part of these companies and advertisers.
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TurtleSpeak
12/09/08

@thelawschooldropout: I never even thought of that, but you're right. Hooray for additional layers of wrongness!
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sportz.star
12/09/08

In reply to Why Won't Sexist Advertising Go Away?
How does that BMW ad relate to cars at all? It's creepy and makes highly hetero me feel dirty because of the thoughts it's supposed to put into the minds of men WAY too old to be anywhere near that very young girl. Yuck.
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VaginaWig is A Merkin
12/09/08

@sportz.star: I'm thinking it's somehow related to preowned cars.
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Flackette Goes Retro
12/09/08

@sportz.star: If you find the large version (here: [www.eatliver.com]) you see that it's for used BMWs. So you're not her first, she's been around the block, she has some mileage on her, har har.
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sportz.star
12/09/08

@Flackette is a Red State Elitist: Ew. So. Much. Worse.
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Beauregard
12/09/08

In reply to Why Won't Sexist Advertising Go Away?
She adds: "Any woman that sees those shoes instead of that message deserves those shoes."

Oh, seriously, Leo?!?! You HAD to state that someone deserves to be gang raped?
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violettefay
12/09/08

@Beauregard: And you can't even see the damn shoes because a dude is standing in front of them and blocking the light! If you think that's making the focus of the ad the shoes, you don't deserve to be working in advertising. Making something shocking/offensive just for the attention/publicity is not always the best approach.
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Mkp-hearts-NYC
12/09/08

@Beauregard: I thought she was just saying whoever focused on the shoes deserved the SHOES, not the rape. The shoes don't look comfy, is I believe her observation.
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ineffable.me
12/09/08

In reply to Why Won't Sexist Advertising Go Away?
Calling that Dolce & Gabbana ad "gang rape" seems a little extreme... its a gang bang maybe, but prolly just some voyeurism.
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TurtleSpeak
12/09/08

@ineffable.me: The reason I say rape is because she is being held down and the look on her face is not one of pleasure. If she had a cheeky smile on her face, rather than looking like she's been fed roofies, the ad would be slightly less offensive (to me).
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TurtleSpeak
12/09/08

@TurtleSpeak: Could just be bad modelling I guess.
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samethingwedoeverynightpinky
12/09/08

@ineffable.me: Yeah, I just said the same thing, in a comment that I think got lost in the comment system. I don't understand what's prompting that to be read as rape, unless there's more to it?
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samethingwedoeverynightpinky
12/09/08

@TurtleSpeak: Maybe the pic is just too small on my screen, because I was getting cheeky from it.

@samethingwedoeverynightpinky: Found my vanished comment: Is there more to the D and G ad campaign than that picture? Why is it being read as rape? At least on my crappy laptop screen, the woman looks unrestrained and into it? I mean, I dont know why that ad is supposed to make me buy shoes, but I find it the least offensive of the ads talked about in the article, and even though I'm usually disgusted by anything that tries to trivialize rape or assault, but I also don't think it's cool to assume that just because having sex with a bunch of hot men in a warehouse is not on the approved list of female sexual fantasies, we're assuming the ad represents nonconsensual sexual activity. (But if the people responsible for it said it was about rape, or there's more to the campaign that makes it clear, I take back my defense, obviously.)
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VaginaWig is A Merkin
12/09/08

@samethingwedoeverynightpinky: And I'll repost my response so that it is in the relevant thread.

the woman looks unrestrained and into it

She is being held down by her wrists by the man and she is looking away from his face. To me, that is restrained and not into it.
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VaginaWig is A Merkin
12/09/08

@samethingwedoeverynightpinky: Also, here is a larger version of the ad if it is too small on your screen.

[ottawastreetstyle.files.wordpress.com]
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everfade
12/09/08

@ineffable.me: Why's it gotta be rape? Maybe they are just want her shoes.
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samethingwedoeverynightpinky
12/09/08

@TheVaginaWig: But her legs are free, and she's deliberately raising her hips. (To show off the shoes, yes, but she could be in man more vulnerable positions, with the shoe still visible.) I mean, I think it's valid to ask whether or not it's lazy advertising to use sexual fantasies to sell everything ( and I think it is), or whether grownup sexual fantasies should be such a part of ad culture that kids are bombarded with them before they know what sex is or have had a chance to figure out for themselves what they're attracted to. But I think, in a market driven by sexual fantasy, it seems odd to single this out as rape, when so many people, of all genders, have gangbang or group sex fantasies.
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SarahMC
12/09/08

@samethingwedoeverynightpinky: No wonder it's so easy for rapists to get off by claiming "it was just rough sex."

@iheartapocalypse: Oh. Sorry!
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VaginaWig is A Merkin
12/09/08

@samethingwedoeverynightpinky: I see your point, yes. And the thing is, I'm someone in the BDSM scene, and understand much more than most people about having fantasies that correlate to the image being shown in the ad. However, I think as a mainstream ad, it comes off looking more like rape than a consensual group activity. Maybe it's the look she has on her face or the fact that she is looking away from the man on top of her instead of at him, but I just think that on a whole, and to the majority of viewers, the ad reads "rape" and not "hot, consensual, D/s gangbang."
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VaginaWig is A Merkin
12/09/08

@samethingwedoeverynightpinky: The other thing is, I know that many of D&G's ads tend to have a BDSM-y theme to them, and I'm inclined to believe that the intention of this one was no different. However, I just think that this one comes off differently than something like this:

[www.aarkey.info]

Is it because the woman is being dominant in that one? I don't know. I'm just thinking more about how it would be viewed by the general public and mainstream audiences. And the one I just linked to shows a crop, which makes it look more BDSM related, where as the girl being pinned down and surrounded by men waiting to pounce makes it look more rape-y.
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samethingwedoeverynightpinky
12/09/08

@SarahMC: Any kind of sex can be nonconsensual, it doesn't matter how rough, or gentle, if the woman is saying no. And if this were a piacute of a real crime scene, and the woman said she was held down or threatened, obviously I would take her word for it. But it's not, it's an ad.

The look on her face doesn't, to me, even in the larger version of the ad, look distressed, and she is propping her body up, on her own. Again, I would never say to a real assualt victim, well, you deserved it, because you raised your crotch to the room, or didn't look upset enough, but my problem is with assuming, based on this shot, that this woman is an assualt victim, and not a consensual participant in this.

If it were an ad with a guy lying there, and a scantily clad oiled up woman leaning over him and holding his writsts while other scantily clad women stood around watching or waiting for their turn, no one would doubt it was a fantasy. And I get that the power dynamics are different, and you can't just say, well what if the roles were reversed, because gender is more powerful than that. But part of what's icky about the way we handle assualt in this country is that women's agency becomes a non issue-- and agency goes both ways. Women having the right to say yes (including to rough sex, including to whatever fantasies other's might find distateful or unladylike) goes along with women having the right to say no. So I'm not going to assume this woman is a victim. I've been assaulted. I also regularly fantasize about fucking lot of hot guys at once. It's not the same thing at all.
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samethingwedoeverynightpinky
12/09/08

@samethingwedoeverynightpinky: others. gah. I am catching my students' random apostrophe disorder.
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happysquid
12/09/08

@samethingwedoeverynightpinky: a gift for you: [www.apostropheabuse.com]
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happysquid
12/09/08

In reply to Why Won't Sexist Advertising Go Away?
All I has to say is that sexist advertising makes me very very sad. Can't we do cute critters? Or just random weird stuff, like those celebrities that go to Japan?
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TurtleSpeak
12/09/08

In reply to Why Won't Sexist Advertising Go Away?
That Nikon ad is beyond disturbing. The girls look like 15 years old, and there's a man watching them from behind a curtain. Um. Sick.
Is anyone even turned on by these ads anymore? When EVERY company uses sex[ualized images of women's bodies] as a marketing tool, don't we all become desensitized? As a straight chick I was never turned on by them in the first place so I can't really speak for their efficiency, but... come on... It can't possibly be effective anymore, can it?
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everfade
12/09/08

In reply to Why Won't Sexist Advertising Go Away?
I think the D&G ad is gorgeous. The perfect lines of her body drawing awesome parallels with his torso and arm is fantastic. Nice sheen to the skin, exquisitely posed and great makeup. I can't hate on that one.
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TurtleSpeak
12/09/08

@everfade: No one's saying it's not artistically/aesthetically nice, but that the cultural message is not positive or productive, and in fact can be disturbing to some (imagine a woman who has been gang raped? Or even just raped?).
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VaginaWig is A Merkin
12/09/08

@everfade: Is that a joke? I'm sorry, but I was too busy noticing the gang rape that was about to take place to even notice the lines of the body or the sheen of the skin. That woman is being PINNED DOWN BY A MAN, WHILE SHE IS SURROUNDED BY OTHER MEN WAITING TO POUNCE AFTER HE HAS HAD HIS TURN.

Really? You noticed the sheen of the skin?
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sportz.star
12/09/08

@everfade: I agree. I didn't think "gang rape" until reading the post. It's a beautiful photograph and it's sell f-me heels. Maybe as the post says, I deserve them. If so, I would hope someone would bring them to me, since there's no way I can afford them.
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everfade
12/09/08

@TheVaginaWig: Yea, I did notice the sheen on the skin; the lighting was terrific.
The image, I think, plays on more of a voyeuristic theme.
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everfade
12/09/08

@sportz.star: Those heels are f*ckin' fantastic aren't they?!
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sportz.star
12/09/08

@everfade: Unreal. Totally covet. And I think we're both going to hell or losing our womyn cards for focusing on precisely the wrong thing in this discussion, but I don't care. :)
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everfade
12/09/08

@sportz.star: I don't think I had a womyn card.
(Gay Man)
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sportz.star
12/09/08

@everfade: Haha. My bad. Sorry to have inadvertently mischaracterized your gender identity.
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