I find it very interesting that Jezebel has had a number of pieces addressing sex workers recently, and the comments sections on the female prostitutes devolved into debates about the morality of it, spewing hate for any woman who will sleep with a married man, or debating the intelligence it takes to use a word like "hypocrisy" and whether sex workers need only have a 9th grade education to know it. Now we get a piece re: male sex workers, and the comment thread is only focused on whether there will be demand for it from women. No tacit slut shaming, no debates on what type of man would work at the brothel, no hatred...just, [mostly] a practical, economic discussion of whether there will be demand. Just sayin'--Jezzie commenters generally seem enlightened, feminist, etc, but its interesting how ingrained our different notions of male/female sexuality are that it comes out in what we choose to focus on.
I kind of think this is great. I don't really like the commodification of the human body or the idea of late capitalist sexual marketplace, but as long as we're going to buy and sell our own bodies and the bodies of others, it is always preferable do it in safe spaces where there can be safety regulations and protection for the sex workers. now if only these places didn't have to be so geographically isolated (which only serves to reinforce the marginalization of the workers) and depressing looking.
I don't see this really succeeding, if only because the stigma of women who pay for sex is so deeply entrenched. Like others have said, I'm sure there are tons of women who would rather see a skilled professional (with good hygiene and STD tests) for sex than brave that horrid meat-market/craigslist scene, but we don't really have room in our cultural narratives about sex for women who pay for it.
It will be interesting to see what happens, though. Part of me hopes I am proven wrong. I am still working out my feelings with regards to prostitution though, even prostitution that involves women patronizing men.
@KATE!: Oh, I know. Aren't a huge chunk of the people who patronize male prostitutes men? I guess I was thinking about a brothel set up explicitly for women who wanted to be with men. I would be curious to see how that went, and if it would work or not.
@winner: That's what a brothel industry lobbyist is suggesting, according to the Las Vegas Sun. I've always presumed the industry had practices to minimise the risk of STD transmission, is there reason to expect that those practices won't work as well for male prostitutes?
Did anyone see the Heidi Fleiss documentary on her efforts to start the "Stud Farm?" I just watched it On Demand and it was pretty enthralling. And sad, because she was clearly drugged through a lot of it.
I've always thought that to cater to a female clientele, you would need to market it carefully. Call it a spa and offer massage and other services, sex is just one of them. And make it aesthetically attractive, not some weird building that looks like a small prison out in the desert with tumbleweeds blowing around. Because what I've seen of most Nevada brothels is kind of a boner-killer.
@Pantra: There's a book that took that angle - two women decide to start a brothel, using the "spa" angle. I believe the title is "Sexual Healing". Not the best writing, but I liked the idea.
@Pantra: Yeah, they all seem to be located in double-wide trailers in the middle of a parched piece of land that looks like a set from Badlands. Automatic ladybonerkiller right there.
This is a very interesting concept since women can technically get sex if they want it...but at what cost? Someone you know and ruin your relationship? Some sleezy dude you've never met before? Taking someone home or going back to someone else's place that you don't know? The dude might totally suck in bed and you might find yourself thinking "I would rather not be here right now?" Sounds safer and more pleasant to me to go to a brothel where you know you aren't going to be harmed and that the dude is probably going to be very good at what he does...it's just the stigma of paying for sex that people need to get over.
Any time the press says a brothel is "outside Reno" or "outside Las Vegas" it means miles and miles outside of town, usually on the outskirts of the neighboring county. (There are only 2 counties, maybe 3 now, that allow legal prostitution). The "Brothels" are a connected series of trailers, sitting squat in the desert, and its the most depressing thing you've ever seen.
@OneTwoPunch: I was thinking the same thing. We're men, not machines!
And what's the demand for this? Gay guys who really want some usually don't need to pay for it (go to Craigslist) and are there enough women willing to visit a brothel in order for this to be sustainable?
@LostTurntable: Exactly! As much as the sex industry tries to create a new market, on the whole (pun intended) men and women view sex differently, have different body parts, and psychological make-ups.
To me, this example encapuslates what I'm trying to write: male strippers are a laugh riot who make bachelorettes giggle at parties. No one takes it all too seriously.
Women strippers are their clients are a totally different mind-set. It brings to mind depressed and obsessive guys drunk at some dive—there's something seedy, illicit, and slightly sad about the scene.
@OneTwoPunch: I disagree, there can definitely be a seedy underground aspect of male strippers, one I'm aware of from watching too much "Real Sex" on HBO in my teens. There are actual clubs that are serious business male strip clubs with seriously horny women, who may or may not be bachelorettes, in attendance.
Not that that secures a market for a male brothel, but I'm sure they're not just making a business that would end up being completely unsustainable.
@LostTurntable: Surely you can't really believe that there's no demand for gay male prostitutes! You've never heard the term 'rent boy'? I've never heard that 'getting it up' is an issue for most of them either. Here in London, if you pick up any of the gay press, the back pages are full of ads for prostitutes. I'm no expert (being a straight, married woman) but I find it hard to imagine that this is just a British phenomenon.
Lots of guys just want to pay for uncomplicated sex. No pick-up, no cruising - I can absolutely see why a male brothel might be an attractive option for lots of men (both gay and "straight").
I'm guessing that there are also a fair few women for who the thought of just handing over a wad of cash, in a safe environment, in return for no-questions-asked-satisfaction-guaranteed sex is a pretty attractive option. In fact, if I wasn't married... ;)
OMG, I totally remember that show "Real Sex". Some of the most hardcore sex scenes I've seen filmed.
Really? Huh. I've been in NYC for awhile, and though I'm not exactly a club goer, I've never heard of "serious" male strippers. Ever. I remember S&M dungeon-type deals in the Meatpacking district, swingers clubs, etc. but not that. Again, I'm not a sexual experimentation kind of person though. Maybe it's a new gen thing?
I have heard Playboy/girl-type "happy ending" massage parlor stories. There's a niche market for anything, really.
@Niki S: A commenter mentioned "Craigslist" a free online posting service that has very gay sex-related ads. It's all digital, and a lot of it is free.
I'm not convinced this whole phenom isn't just a big media push, trying to create a market that isn't there.
@OneTwoPunch: Craigslist still entails meeting up with a complete stranger of questionable sanity for sex that may be mediocre; the appeal of a professional experience would seem to make up for the price. Honey, the market is there. The fact that you're not aware of it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
@FrankiTheB: "Honey", see my comment below. I'm talking about women visiting male brothels in Nevada (or any other area where this is purported to be a money-making machine) and how realistic it is as a business. Because that's what the article is about-the introduction of males to brothels.
Also, this site is kinda about women's issues. Just so you know. So I'm writing from a womans p.o.v. The sexual experience is different for women than it is for men. That's the central thesis to my comments.
@OneTwoPunch: Well, I argue both above but, realistically, I'd imagine more men than women. As the brothel says they're expecting both as customers, I'd imagine that they'll do fairly brisk business.
I've known a number of rent boys over the years. The majority of their business is with men, but most of them have had women as customers too. It's really not as rare as you seem to think.
@Niki S: Really? I've been in NYC for many years, and never met a "rent boy" once, or at least one who would admit it to my face. And this is in America's largest city.
Sooo...imagine how "rare" it is to the rest of the country.
Especially bi-sexual "rent" boys who cater to both men and women.
@OneTwoPunch: I once read about women-only parties that happen on board boats, where the entertainment is provided by buff, oiled, mostly naked male strippers. Let's say the performances seemed to involve a lot of public sex, not all of it simulated.
Women can get just as raunchy as dudes if the environment is right.
@blueberryblackberry: OK, realize where you are coming from. A New York City perspective of someone who travels in social circles with which you rub elbows with rent boys. ?! Are you a native? If yes, then you know we experience shit on a daily basis that is so totally foreign to the rest of the country we might as well learn to speak Esperanto.
Of course I don't know the sex industry from the inside because I'm not a sex worker. And no, I don't know a multitude of sex workers. And if you're telling me "Oh, really? Gosh that is SO common here. EVERYONE knows sex workers", I say bullshit. I know thousands of New Yorkers, and there ain't one among them that I'm aware of.
Here's the crux of this whole discussion: the feasibility of a Nevada suite of male sex workers is who cater to both men and women, day in and day out, and that there is a HUGE demand for this. Come on. It's absurd.
Why not just move to NYC and ingratiate themselves into a social circle like yours? Problem solved!
@OneTwoPunch: Yeah but Craigslist still takes time and an effort. It's the difference between cooking your own dinner and not feeling like it and just ordering delivery. LOL! A ridiculous metaphor, yes, but a good one.
@mustlovebooknerd: Of course. I love the "just because you haven't" blah blah blah defense. I live and breathe and work and read and have exepriences. Which I then write about. On here. Just as valid as anyone elses, and I give examples to back it up.
I still question how prevalent a phenomenon this has become, but, again, like I've typed, I AM middle-aged, so I am willing to concede the pan sexuality and paid-for sex is not something normal to anyone in my social circle.
And no, I have not ever met anyone fitting any of these sex worker descriptions. Ever. And I've met a lot of people in a lot bars and clubs from all walks of life. Here, and in the rest of the country.
Again, ones small social circle can have a warping effect on how one views the rest of the world. One mans commonality is anothers carnival sideshow.
@OneTwoPunch: Well, a lot more people know sex workers than they think because most sex workers aren't out to most people in their lives.
The point of my reply was to challenge your assertion that male sex workers are so rare as to be nearly unheard of. Will this legal brothel fly in Nevada? A quick perusal of sites where male escorts advertise in Nevada suggests that there are several hundred male prostitutes working there already (mostly in Las Vegas, where prostitution is illegal). I think the issue with this particular brothel will be location...supposedly a significant part of the rural brothel business in Nevada is from truckers, who are probably not the target audience for most male escorts.
@blueberryblackberry: Very true. It is a rural setting, so a brothel is easier to just drive to. And appeal to the rural male who would frequent such a place.
You mentioned "sites", which means online, which would suggest some degree of affluence and education, at least to do a computer search and have access to one. Not hard, but it would have a demographic niche very different from the truck-stop prostitute of yore.
My assertion is mostly this: straight male sex workers who live in brothels and perform a variety of sex acts on demand without drugs is extremely rare. To counter this, commenters asserted "fluffers" and "porn stars" but this is not that. This is not filmed, where anything can be made to seem real.
@OneTwoPunch: I live and breathe and work and read and have exepriences. Which I then write about. On here. Just as valid as anyone elses, and I give examples to back it up.
The problem is that you appear to be assuming your experiences to be representative of all experiences, which, given the limited nature of social circles which you admit, cannot be true.
@FrankiTheB: Well, I write in the first person. That isn't a problem. Not to me. So, write whatever you want, in your voice. At least I make admittances for my experiences.
"Limited" implies that most people have social circles with rent boys. Gimme a break. That's such an unbelievable assertion.
@FrankiTheB: " problem is that you appear to be assuming your experiences to be representative of all experiences"
And you typing "women need easy ass, too" isn't a total contradiction. You do realize the word "women" implies ALL people of that gender, right? Talk about assuming the role of representative.
@FrankiTheB: You have so many contradictions in your comments, it's not worth noting anymore. All women are this, you are limited, sweeping generalizations, blah blah blah.
Your comment is the intellectual equivalent of "I know you are but what am I?!" You won't get starred for that comic brilliance.
@OneTwoPunch: Not to toot my own horn or get overly personal, but if we're discussing the reality of maintaining erections, I can vouch that it's not as unrealistic as it sounds. In the heyday of my sexually dysfunctional youth, I could have performed multiple and various sex acts on demand without drugs and been ready again for more in a few minutes.
Despite the stigma against the profession and the fact that there are those who get forced into it against their will, I do believe there are men (and women too) who get into prostitution because they enjoy sex and would like to make money off of it. And it makes sense that the more virile men would come out on top. So why couldn't these male brothels just be an example of the Survival of the Fittest (or Erectest) in terms of the sex industry? Why not assume that being able to maintain and recover your erection from session to session is just one of the skills you need to have to be a good "worker" in your "field."
Also, I'm sure the guys aren't fucking consecutively one after another. They'd have breaks in between to (at the very least) shower (I would hope). So they'd have time to build back up to the next erection. And I'm sure they also don't always cum, since it's probably more about the other person's sexual satisfaction and, especially with a condom, they could fake it.
@OneTwoPunch: Thanks. :-) Also I don't know why, but I feel like I need to disclaimer and say I've never actually "ordered takeout" before. I just REALLY like to google ridiculous things. LOL!
@mustlovebooknerd: Yeah, I agree with you that there is definitely a sector of the population who is suited for the work. Another commenter was questioning (as was I) how many men this could actually be, given the numbers of women versus men in the porn industry, since women technically-speaking, can have sex over and over and over, without stopping to rest or recharge.
I find the Nevada ranches an interesting concept, if only because they seem to harken back to the idea of the Wild West saloon type brothel—sex was so hard to come by (haha) that people had to pay for it on the wild frontier.
Agree also about a young mans' ability to "go the distance" multiple times without enhancements of any kind. Teenage boys...wow. Any stiff wind that blows.
@OneTwoPunch: LOL! Sometimes you don't even need the wind. It just pops up and says hello. :-)
Also, something you said about "how many men could be suited for this" made me wonder if the type of men who are suited for the lifestyle are drawn to the lifestyle because of their...special skills so to speak. It just makes me wonder how people (consentually) end up in the sex industry (porn and prostitution) in their own ways and what factors led them there (be it a highly active sex drive, some sort of dysfunction in their childhoods, financial necessity + opportunity, etc). It's all very fascinating to me.
@mustlovebooknerd: Ha! I find it interesting that someone like Ron Jeremy can even earn the moniker "Pornstar"—perhaps because regular guys while watching felt they could insert themselves (ha) into the "action" so it was easier for them to accept the whole premise of the movie. Which begs the question, how does a Ron Jeremy get scouted for this work? He's probably done a documentary on his life, and books.
I also find Jenna Jameson interesting in interviews, too. She's a keen businesswoman, but she talks at length about her issues and how she felt as she made all the decisions that led up to her life choices.
I've also seen a few documentaries on the Nevada system—they run a tight ship in those brothels. Weekly testings, and a very secure work atmosphere for the women (and now, maybe men!). It seems a preferable and safer system for both the workers and their customers.
@mustlovebooknerd: It's self-selecting. Anyone who would have trouble performing would be weeded out of the casting process within a shoot. I'm friends with a porn producer and it's apparently very difficult to not only find functioning on-demand male performers that can maintain throughout long, uncomfortable conditions in front of a live audience, but ones who can also finish on cue. The latter being very important.
After countless wasted production hours, the general idea is that being good-looking is almost an afterthought. It explains how someone as unattractive as Ron Jeremy could be an icon of longevity.
is anyone else disgusted by his complete dehumanization of Hamilton? even while he's supposedly apologizing, its all about him, she was just the thing he happened to fall on with his hard on!
@cantankasaurus rex: Yeah, and if she didn't think the affair was the worst thing to ever happen to her, she's gotta feel pretty shitty that she was the worst thing to ever happen to him.
This is the most important letter I've ever written, because I believe it is my only chance of making me appear remorseful enough to keep my Senate seat if this affair becomes public.
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It will be interesting to see what happens, though. Part of me hopes I am proven wrong. I am still working out my feelings with regards to prostitution though, even prostitution that involves women patronizing men.
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(Not being antagonistic; I actually don't know.)
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I've always thought that to cater to a female clientele, you would need to market it carefully. Call it a spa and offer massage and other services, sex is just one of them. And make it aesthetically attractive, not some weird building that looks like a small prison out in the desert with tumbleweeds blowing around. Because what I've seen of most Nevada brothels is kind of a boner-killer.
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And what's the demand for this? Gay guys who really want some usually don't need to pay for it (go to Craigslist) and are there enough women willing to visit a brothel in order for this to be sustainable?
12/14/09
To me, this example encapuslates what I'm trying to write: male strippers are a laugh riot who make bachelorettes giggle at parties. No one takes it all too seriously.
Women strippers are their clients are a totally different mind-set. It brings to mind depressed and obsessive guys drunk at some dive—there's something seedy, illicit, and slightly sad about the scene.
Not the same.
12/14/09
Not that that secures a market for a male brothel, but I'm sure they're not just making a business that would end up being completely unsustainable.
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Lots of guys just want to pay for uncomplicated sex. No pick-up, no cruising - I can absolutely see why a male brothel might be an attractive option for lots of men (both gay and "straight").
I'm guessing that there are also a fair few women for who the thought of just handing over a wad of cash, in a safe environment, in return for no-questions-asked-satisfaction-guaranteed sex is a pretty attractive option. In fact, if I wasn't married... ;)
12/14/09
OMG, I totally remember that show "Real Sex". Some of the most hardcore sex scenes I've seen filmed.
Really? Huh. I've been in NYC for awhile, and though I'm not exactly a club goer, I've never heard of "serious" male strippers. Ever. I remember S&M dungeon-type deals in the Meatpacking district, swingers clubs, etc. but not that. Again, I'm not a sexual experimentation kind of person though. Maybe it's a new gen thing?
I have heard Playboy/girl-type "happy ending" massage parlor stories. There's a niche market for anything, really.
12/14/09
I'm not convinced this whole phenom isn't just a big media push, trying to create a market that isn't there.
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Or just natural talent. There's a reason a minuscule number of men can perform in porn.
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And, again, how many well-off women are so "horny" they feel the need to visit a brothel?
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Also, this site is kinda about women's issues. Just so you know. So I'm writing from a womans p.o.v. The sexual experience is different for women than it is for men. That's the central thesis to my comments.
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I've known a number of rent boys over the years. The majority of their business is with men, but most of them have had women as customers too. It's really not as rare as you seem to think.
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Sooo...imagine how "rare" it is to the rest of the country.
Especially bi-sexual "rent" boys who cater to both men and women.
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Women can get just as raunchy as dudes if the environment is right.
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Of course I don't know the sex industry from the inside because I'm not a sex worker. And no, I don't know a multitude of sex workers. And if you're telling me "Oh, really? Gosh that is SO common here. EVERYONE knows sex workers", I say bullshit. I know thousands of New Yorkers, and there ain't one among them that I'm aware of.
Here's the crux of this whole discussion: the feasibility of a Nevada suite of male sex workers is who cater to both men and women, day in and day out, and that there is a HUGE demand for this. Come on. It's absurd.
Why not just move to NYC and ingratiate themselves into a social circle like yours? Problem solved!
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Also, love your screen name.
12/14/09
They're really not all that rare. But just like homicidal maniacs (as Wednesday Addams puts it) they look just like everybody else.
12/14/09
I still question how prevalent a phenomenon this has become, but, again, like I've typed, I AM middle-aged, so I am willing to concede the pan sexuality and paid-for sex is not something normal to anyone in my social circle.
And no, I have not ever met anyone fitting any of these sex worker descriptions. Ever. And I've met a lot of people in a lot bars and clubs from all walks of life. Here, and in the rest of the country.
Again, ones small social circle can have a warping effect on how one views the rest of the world. One mans commonality is anothers carnival sideshow.
12/14/09
The point of my reply was to challenge your assertion that male sex workers are so rare as to be nearly unheard of. Will this legal brothel fly in Nevada? A quick perusal of sites where male escorts advertise in Nevada suggests that there are several hundred male prostitutes working there already (mostly in Las Vegas, where prostitution is illegal). I think the issue with this particular brothel will be location...supposedly a significant part of the rural brothel business in Nevada is from truckers, who are probably not the target audience for most male escorts.
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You mentioned "sites", which means online, which would suggest some degree of affluence and education, at least to do a computer search and have access to one. Not hard, but it would have a demographic niche very different from the truck-stop prostitute of yore.
My assertion is mostly this: straight male sex workers who live in brothels and perform a variety of sex acts on demand without drugs is extremely rare. To counter this, commenters asserted "fluffers" and "porn stars" but this is not that. This is not filmed, where anything can be made to seem real.
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The problem is that you appear to be assuming your experiences to be representative of all experiences, which, given the limited nature of social circles which you admit, cannot be true.
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"Limited" implies that most people have social circles with rent boys. Gimme a break. That's such an unbelievable assertion.
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And you typing "women need easy ass, too" isn't a total contradiction. You do realize the word "women" implies ALL people of that gender, right? Talk about assuming the role of representative.
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Your comment is the intellectual equivalent of "I know you are but what am I?!" You won't get starred for that comic brilliance.
And you can't buy one, either.
12/14/09
Despite the stigma against the profession and the fact that there are those who get forced into it against their will, I do believe there are men (and women too) who get into prostitution because they enjoy sex and would like to make money off of it. And it makes sense that the more virile men would come out on top. So why couldn't these male brothels just be an example of the Survival of the Fittest (or Erectest) in terms of the sex industry? Why not assume that being able to maintain and recover your erection from session to session is just one of the skills you need to have to be a good "worker" in your "field."
Also, I'm sure the guys aren't fucking consecutively one after another. They'd have breaks in between to (at the very least) shower (I would hope). So they'd have time to build back up to the next erection. And I'm sure they also don't always cum, since it's probably more about the other person's sexual satisfaction and, especially with a condom, they could fake it.
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I find the Nevada ranches an interesting concept, if only because they seem to harken back to the idea of the Wild West saloon type brothel—sex was so hard to come by (haha) that people had to pay for it on the wild frontier.
Agree also about a young mans' ability to "go the distance" multiple times without enhancements of any kind. Teenage boys...wow. Any stiff wind that blows.
12/14/09
Also, something you said about "how many men could be suited for this" made me wonder if the type of men who are suited for the lifestyle are drawn to the lifestyle because of their...special skills so to speak. It just makes me wonder how people (consentually) end up in the sex industry (porn and prostitution) in their own ways and what factors led them there (be it a highly active sex drive, some sort of dysfunction in their childhoods, financial necessity + opportunity, etc). It's all very fascinating to me.
12/14/09
I also find Jenna Jameson interesting in interviews, too. She's a keen businesswoman, but she talks at length about her issues and how she felt as she made all the decisions that led up to her life choices.
I've also seen a few documentaries on the Nevada system—they run a tight ship in those brothels. Weekly testings, and a very secure work atmosphere for the women (and now, maybe men!). It seems a preferable and safer system for both the workers and their customers.
12/14/09
After countless wasted production hours, the general idea is that being good-looking is almost an afterthought. It explains how someone as unattractive as Ron Jeremy could be an icon of longevity.
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