Well, if congress doesn't phase out the employer tax benefit for health care the Dems better promise to tackle the delivery system in another bill, because costs are gonna keep rising. All of CWA's ideas are revenue-raisers, but they don't bend the cost curve. You have to keep tax revenues ahead of the cost curve, and if costs keep rising, well, do the math.
The bishops were instrumental in getting tough anti-abortion language adopted by the House, forcing Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., to accept restrictions that outraged liberals as the price for passing the Democratic health care bill. [...]"
Unless we can tax your ass and treat you like another fucking focus group, PAC, lobbying group, etc. (we should--they've made it clear who they support clear, come hell, highwater, or warmongering, social-service cutting Republicans), GO AWAY.
For the record, I don't give a shit what the church thinks about issues that put them in line with the very liberal, either. Their organization is based on an unprovable, malleable story and is a distraction from rational policymaking. I don't care if their ARE priests or nuns who are consistently "pro-life" and against choice AND the death penalty, I don't fucking religious doctrine swaying policy, period.
This stuff makes me livid. How is there even an entryway for their influence? I don't care if anti-choice Democrats and Republicans agree with them, how are they not sent reeling away from the table of discussion? Aren't there some rules they're breaking here, couldn't the legislators that oppose this amendment tell them (and anyone benefiting from their funding or talking points) where to shove it?
@maude_flanders: I know, I used to think there was a separation of church and state here in the ol' US of A, but it seems like that chasm has narrowed to a slit. Hell, why don't we just have the leaders of each major religious group in the US sit down at a round table and create some policies?
@maude_flanders: It's MIND-BOGGLING. I could literally not care less what Catholic priests think about US legislation. And yet, they somehow have a say? I mean, not to get all Seth Myers, but Really? REALLY?
Guess what, people who believe in religion: YOU DON'T GET A SAY IN MY LEGISLATION. And all you people (yes, on Jezebel) who identify yourselves with any of the religions who are trying to sway this bill yet try to claim that you are against it, maybe now's the time to reconsider your alignment, no?
@TurtleWexlerKickedMe: aligning yourself with a religion doesn't mean you believe in the actions of every other person of the same faith. Just because I'm a Christian doesn't mean I believe in everything that the church/"religious authorities" say.
@msridiculous447: If you don't believe in your church's doctrine, why be a member of that church? I ask that earnestly. We've had this discussion on here before (in the early days of Jez, there was a particularly great one, with many sides of the argument representing) and it's still unclear. Why be a member of something if it actively campaigns and lobbies for things you disagree with?
@TurtleWexlerKickedMe: That's what I initially asked myself, and deleted it. I can think of emotional reasons why, but--no offense to those who identify as Catholics here--those reasons are stupid to me. I can only speak for myself, but religion was never comforting, enlightening, or rewarding enough to stay when, at BEST, my priorities could be considered party of my flawed, sinful nature, a fluke to be resolved.
I know what's important to me. I can negotiate morality and the concepts of empathy, personal accountability, and human dignity without another f*cking Gospel that ends with "wailing and gnashing of teeth," another story that seems even more meaningless and irrelevant the third, fourth, fiftieth time I hear it (my respect for some of the priests at my family parish notwithstanding).
The Church opposes policies that would help women and children in desperately poor countries (and here, of course, where we seem both on the cusp of sensible progress and, and then, marching backwards with our eyes wide open) where childbirth is a matter of life or death and family size--in addition to corruption, policies of richer nations, environmental stress, etc.---IS relevant to collective suffering. I think that's fucking criminal--wielding an unknowable God, and the concept of an afterlife, over human progress.
The Church's moral legitimacy as an institution is undermined by the bishops' abuse of power...settling in court, then shuffling abusive priests from parish to parish so they could molest more children. That's unspeakable for a secular, "worldly," predictably flawed seat of power....but from an institution that purportedly calls faithful and non-believers alike to a less violent, more generous, more enlightened version of humanity? An institution that demands special respect because it exists as a beacon and a respite from an immoral world?
The most distasteful thing is that this isn't solely about religious doctrine. I'm guessing half the people who identify as "Christian" in this country and root for dicks like Stupak couldn't give you three Commandments or describe one Gospel that isn't typically trotted out in popular culture. It seems we as a "Christian" nation are Christian to the extent that it allows voters--and worse, policymakers--to be morally or intellectually unaccountable when convenient. It provides a legitimate excuse where others--loyalty to a corporate interest, indefensible busybody chauvinism, whatever--would fall flat, or be more easily unearthed.
I wish I could put the story of Mike Huckabee, Wayne DuMond, and his victims on billboards...that typifies the grotesque, unapologetic arrogance and complacency that religion provides.
Is it a source, or just one mask for assholery that might emerge in another form in the absence of organized religion? I don't know. And I don't care.
I feel so helpless, and so angry. I am am sputtering with rage. Why, why can't the Democrats tell them what we've said here? Doctrine should NOT be a primary source informing policy!! And if this asshole says it isn't, how else can he defend it? Why the FUCK aren't people tearing down his stupid arguments? My tax dollars paid for a three trillion dollar war that sure as fuck offends my conscience, and it will for the next couple of decades while this generation keeps footing the bill. I pay for initiatives spearheaded by religious charities (if not churches themselves).
So what is Stupak's excuse? What other defense is there? You don't like abortion? Don't get one! We already have the Hyde Amendment! If it's no more invasive, why do we need something new?
How can anyone oppose family planning and sex ed unless you support fattening the budgets for social services, TANF, Medicaid, HeadStart, or anything else that children poor to parents who can't afford them, never wanted them, don't know how to care for them, CAN'T care for them because they're on drugs?
What's the matter, what the fuck is wrong with the media that they aren't eviscerating these pieces of shit for weak reasoning or bald-faced lies?!!
What has become clear to me over the last 10 months or so is that part of the problem is that there are no strong Democrat leaders in either house. I was thinking about it the other night and would this Democrat controlled congress have been able to pass the Civil Rights Act of 1964? I really don't think so. We need ball breaking leaders to go in there and be like, if you don't vote for this the party will screw you nine ways from Sunday for the rest of your career. It sounds dirty but I'm convinced that that's how you get shit done in Congress.
@bluebears: I can't agree more. The fact that Joe Lieberman hasn't been stripped of his chairmanship says it all about the balls of the Democratic Party right now.
Judging by the amount of time and energy that the Church puts into various stupid issues, you'd swear that the New Testament was 75% about zygotes, 15% about how being gay is totally sinny, 10% about how to deny allegations of pedophilia, and 5% about loving each other and service and stuff.
What the Church has chosen to do with its massive global influence is so, so disappointing.
How about we tax 'Cadillac Religions,' since they seem to want to mix it up in politics, despite the restriction placed on the Federal government by the First Amendment. We can start with the Roman Catholic Church... oh, wait... they're broke, from having to pay out for all those priests who molested boys.
Call me a pessimest, I am, but at this point I have no hope whatsoever for any meaningful reform passing both houses and honestly if reform comes with the price of stripping reproductive rights away from women then I frankly prefer it dies.
@bluebears: I'm with you. I know we are in serious need of real reform, but this half-ass bullshit ain't it.
I mean, under the proposed plans, we are not only facing the loss of access to reproductive health care, but I am also facing the degradation of my kick-ass health insurance. And at what cost? So the Democrats could say they tackled health care reform when 2010 rolls around, as if we weren't all there to see what a clusterfuck it's been?
@bluebears: And no public option, and no concrete definition of "affordable", and the possibility of taxing insurance when it a part of you benefits package... I mean what's the point of this reform now, huh?
@NefariousNewt: Well, Sarah Palin has a womb, and instead of instilling her with respect and compassion, it has brought forth a legion of ill-named children. So.
To the Catholic hierarchy, please stop. Spend some time with your priest in their parishes and see what they have to deal with, especially in urban areas. I will never forget working at Catholic funded program in Camden NJ. For those that don't know, Camden is one of the poorest areas in NJ. I sat at my desk one morning as a 15 year old girl told the priest that ran the program that she thought she may be pregnant. He first told her to go to a DR to be sure, and then he counseled her on ALL of her options, which included termination of the pregnancy.
After she left feeling much better for having talked to someone the priest talked to me. He said as a fellow Catholic I must have been shocked by his counseling. He said in his mission here he needs to be pragmatic, and he would be doing a disservice to his flock if he followed strict doctrine. The Church needs to spend some time with Fr. John.
@whynotshesaid: Fr John rocked. A thirty-five year old Birkenstock wearing, guitar playing Jesuit. He and my current parish priest restored my faith in faith.
Dear Bishops,
You are not good Christians. You are so concerned with YOUR view of life that you are willing to not pass health care bills to help others. THATS NOT CHRISTIAN.
Dear GOPers and Asshole Democrats,
You are not good people. Your role is to go what your constituents want, not what you find morally abhorrent. You are not God , thats not your job. Your job is to do the best you can for your country. The people that need the abortions the most, are probably the ones that need their health care bill. Help them too.
@NefariousNewt: The one that always got me on the SAT was "flag", which means both to make something more noticeable...and to make something less noticeable. Not cool, medieval Englishmen.
Thank you, Latoya, for breaking this down. There's just SO MUCH information out there, and the whole process has become completely disheartening since Stupak.
When I was a kid, I used to have elaborate fantasies (usually while in church) about how someday I'd be old and a grown up and smart and powerful and rich and probably president, and then I'd do all kinds of things to make the world better. Improve schools, make abortion totally legal and easy to get always, get rid of poverty, make sure no kids are ever hungry or malnourished, stricter sentencing for sexual predators and a greater cultural effort to end discrimination.
I miss being a kid and feeling like I would ever have a chance to make one fucking bit of difference in this world. My vote, opinion, body, existence--all mean nothing to this country. #healthnuts
11/20/09
11/20/09
Unless we can tax your ass and treat you like another fucking focus group, PAC, lobbying group, etc. (we should--they've made it clear who they support clear, come hell, highwater, or warmongering, social-service cutting Republicans), GO AWAY.
For the record, I don't give a shit what the church thinks about issues that put them in line with the very liberal, either. Their organization is based on an unprovable, malleable story and is a distraction from rational policymaking. I don't care if their ARE priests or nuns who are consistently "pro-life" and against choice AND the death penalty, I don't fucking religious doctrine swaying policy, period.
This stuff makes me livid. How is there even an entryway for their influence? I don't care if anti-choice Democrats and Republicans agree with them, how are they not sent reeling away from the table of discussion? Aren't there some rules they're breaking here, couldn't the legislators that oppose this amendment tell them (and anyone benefiting from their funding or talking points) where to shove it?
11/20/09
11/20/09
Guess what, people who believe in religion: YOU DON'T GET A SAY IN MY LEGISLATION. And all you people (yes, on Jezebel) who identify yourselves with any of the religions who are trying to sway this bill yet try to claim that you are against it, maybe now's the time to reconsider your alignment, no?
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/21/09
I know what's important to me. I can negotiate morality and the concepts of empathy, personal accountability, and human dignity without another f*cking Gospel that ends with "wailing and gnashing of teeth," another story that seems even more meaningless and irrelevant the third, fourth, fiftieth time I hear it (my respect for some of the priests at my family parish notwithstanding).
The Church opposes policies that would help women and children in desperately poor countries (and here, of course, where we seem both on the cusp of sensible progress and, and then, marching backwards with our eyes wide open) where childbirth is a matter of life or death and family size--in addition to corruption, policies of richer nations, environmental stress, etc.---IS relevant to collective suffering. I think that's fucking criminal--wielding an unknowable God, and the concept of an afterlife, over human progress.
The Church's moral legitimacy as an institution is undermined by the bishops' abuse of power...settling in court, then shuffling abusive priests from parish to parish so they could molest more children. That's unspeakable for a secular, "worldly," predictably flawed seat of power....but from an institution that purportedly calls faithful and non-believers alike to a less violent, more generous, more enlightened version of humanity? An institution that demands special respect because it exists as a beacon and a respite from an immoral world?
The most distasteful thing is that this isn't solely about religious doctrine. I'm guessing half the people who identify as "Christian" in this country and root for dicks like Stupak couldn't give you three Commandments or describe one Gospel that isn't typically trotted out in popular culture. It seems we as a "Christian" nation are Christian to the extent that it allows voters--and worse, policymakers--to be morally or intellectually unaccountable when convenient. It provides a legitimate excuse where others--loyalty to a corporate interest, indefensible busybody chauvinism, whatever--would fall flat, or be more easily unearthed.
I wish I could put the story of Mike Huckabee, Wayne DuMond, and his victims on billboards...that typifies the grotesque, unapologetic arrogance and complacency that religion provides.
Is it a source, or just one mask for assholery that might emerge in another form in the absence of organized religion? I don't know. And I don't care.
I feel so helpless, and so angry. I am am sputtering with rage. Why, why can't the Democrats tell them what we've said here? Doctrine should NOT be a primary source informing policy!! And if this asshole says it isn't, how else can he defend it? Why the FUCK aren't people tearing down his stupid arguments? My tax dollars paid for a three trillion dollar war that sure as fuck offends my conscience, and it will for the next couple of decades while this generation keeps footing the bill. I pay for initiatives spearheaded by religious charities (if not churches themselves).
So what is Stupak's excuse? What other defense is there? You don't like abortion? Don't get one! We already have the Hyde Amendment! If it's no more invasive, why do we need something new?
How can anyone oppose family planning and sex ed unless you support fattening the budgets for social services, TANF, Medicaid, HeadStart, or anything else that children poor to parents who can't afford them, never wanted them, don't know how to care for them, CAN'T care for them because they're on drugs?
What's the matter, what the fuck is wrong with the media that they aren't eviscerating these pieces of shit for weak reasoning or bald-faced lies?!!
#tips
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/20/09
What the Church has chosen to do with its massive global influence is so, so disappointing.
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/20/09
I mean, under the proposed plans, we are not only facing the loss of access to reproductive health care, but I am also facing the degradation of my kick-ass health insurance. And at what cost? So the Democrats could say they tackled health care reform when 2010 rolls around, as if we weren't all there to see what a clusterfuck it's been?
I have a headache. Is it too early to drink?
11/20/09
@FrabjousDay: I'm so utterly disappointed by Congressional Democrats at this point.
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/20/09
After she left feeling much better for having talked to someone the priest talked to me. He said as a fellow Catholic I must have been shocked by his counseling. He said in his mission here he needs to be pragmatic, and he would be doing a disservice to his flock if he followed strict doctrine. The Church needs to spend some time with Fr. John.
11/20/09
11/20/09
#tips
11/20/09
11/20/09
You are not good Christians. You are so concerned with YOUR view of life that you are willing to not pass health care bills to help others. THATS NOT CHRISTIAN.
Dear GOPers and Asshole Democrats,
You are not good people. Your role is to go what your constituents want, not what you find morally abhorrent. You are not God , thats not your job. Your job is to do the best you can for your country. The people that need the abortions the most, are probably the ones that need their health care bill. Help them too.
Not sincerly,
Dutchess
11/20/09
11/20/09
Fixed that for you.
11/20/09
I'm more worried about things coming out of right field. Ba-dum-ching.
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/20/09
1. remarkable; horrifying
2. wonderful; excellent
WTF? Based on the context in the article, I guess it means remarkable. But still. How can one word mean so many drastically different things?
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/20/09
Mad props to Latoya for cutting through the bullshit and pandering to make this revolting cauldron of crap stew somewhat digestable and coherent.
11/16/09
I miss being a kid and feeling like I would ever have a chance to make one fucking bit of difference in this world. My vote, opinion, body, existence--all mean nothing to this country. #healthnuts