nadyasulemanoctuplets

posts about #nadyasulemanoctuplets more →
Fetishizing Traditional Roles Means Ignoring Their Realities
Ann Curry's Octuplet Interview Takes Me Through The (Four) Stages Of Grief
A Girl's Gallery Of Ann Curry's WTF Faces
Octuplets' Grandmother Adds To Criticism Of Her Daughter
"Experts": Is Nadya Suleman Looking For Love, Or Her Name In Lights?

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Sputnik_Sweetheart
02/20/09

In reply to Fetishizing Traditional Roles Means Ignoring Their Realities
This post and the one about the multiple proposals has got me thinking. On a very practical, logical, and cognitive level, I know that not getting married is not the worst fate in the world. And I'm not really worried about infertility because if I decide I'm ready to have kids later in life, I can adopt a child who needs a family/home.

However, on an emotional and gut level, I can't quite shake the need to be married and have 2.5 children. I mean, I'm not even sure I want to be married and have kids, but I seem to have internalized all of society's messages about weddings, kids, husbands, etc that I have received since I was little. Despite having a pretty good life, I sometimes am hard on myself if I am single. It is very frustrating; not being attached to anybody doesn't make me any less of a person.

Sorry for the long post :(
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midwesternmom
02/20/09

@Sputnik_Sweetheart: Being single doesn't make you less of a person, but being in a crappy, marginal relationship because you felt pressure to be coupled would certainly erode your self esteem. And I may be prejudiced, but I think anyone who hangs out on Jezebel must be pretty OK.
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Sputnik_Sweetheart
02/21/09

@midwesternmom: "Being in a crappy, marginal relationship because you felt pressure to be coupled would certainly erode your self esteem."

Yeah, I've learned that the hard way. And thanks for the kind words!
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Slumdog_Mamabear
02/20/09

In reply to Fetishizing Traditional Roles Means Ignoring Their Realities
This is why I cling so tightly to the other Moms in my life who value experiencing their children more than documenting them or dressing them up. Moms who I can call and be honest with when I feel like running away to Brazil. Moms who know that the messier parenthood is, the more fun it usually is.
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amowls
02/20/09

In reply to Fetishizing Traditional Roles Means Ignoring Their Realities
I want a kid, but I want to skip the whole pregnancy thing.
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midwesternmom
02/20/09

@amowls: Adopt a toddler. I skipped the pain, most of the sleepless nights, and have a wonderful son. I never wanted a baby--I always wanted a child. And I have had hard days and crazy days, but never a moment of regret.
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Flackette Goes Retro
02/20/09

In reply to Fetishizing Traditional Roles Means Ignoring Their Realities
I'm just hear to say that I met Katha Pollitt earlier this year, and she was faaabulously funny and smart. She signed her new book (Learning to Drive) for me, and I devoured it.
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Everything MidnightBikeRide does is a balloon.
02/20/09

In reply to Fetishizing Traditional Roles Means Ignoring Their Realities
I blame the pro-lifers. Just have the kids, to hell with keeping them healthy and educated. She's a one-woman metaphor for the dangers of the cultural-conservative governing style, at risk of sounding glib.
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poorlittlerischgirl
02/20/09

@MidnightBikeRide: I think that's a ridiculous comment. Pro-lifes are to blame for the fact that this woman has been artificially inseminated a dozen times and has more children than she can care for? No. She can make her own choices. There was no gun to her head. She's a woman without much reasoning ability or understanding of responsibility. This is her fault.
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Everything MidnightBikeRide does is a balloon.
02/20/09

@poorlittlerischgirl: Chill, I'm just being general and drawing a parallel between her and the culture.
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Yamunation
02/20/09

@MidnightBikeRide:

How can you BLAME the pro-lifers? They are hypocrital to be sure, for expecting everyone to have their babies, then not believing in providing further support, but they can't be blamed for this woman's delusions.
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Everything MidnightBikeRide does is a balloon.
02/20/09

@Yamunation: Excuse me, I should have written with less flair and made it more clear that I was being glib.
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littlemisslondon
02/20/09

In reply to Fetishizing Traditional Roles Means Ignoring Their Realities
I realized I was "ready" to have a kid (haha, who's ever actually ready?) when I realised that I didn't just want a baby. I want to raise a person, and I want to know who they are at every age. I want to see what they have to say and what their talents and their challenges are.

Now I am pregnant and even though I know I'm as ready as I'll ever be, and even though I have a gigantic, loving, helpful extended family around me, I'm still terrified. I cannot IMAGINE eight kids. Or 14. Or doing this without wanting to raise a person, not just to have a baby.
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argle-bargle? or fou-ferraw?
02/20/09

@littlemisslondon: good for you. i wish that everyone who decided to become a parent was as self-aware as you seem to be. :)
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midwesternmom
02/20/09

@littlemisslondon: Tiny LittleMissLondon will be lucky to have you as a mom. As a mom to a toddler and a stepmom to kids in college, every age is magic and they just don't stop with the surprises. The first step to joy, which you have accepted, is to realize they are independent little creatures and you get to guide their journey, but they are in the driver's seat.
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msAnthrope
02/20/09

In reply to Fetishizing Traditional Roles Means Ignoring Their Realities
i'm wondering how this is going to play out 10-15+ years from now. when her babies aren't babies anymore. for some reason i don't have a good feeling about it.
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rednrowdy
02/20/09

In reply to Fetishizing Traditional Roles Means Ignoring Their Realities
Suleman seems to have wanted to have kids more than she really wanted to parent them.

there are so many men and women who fall for this - you're not a real human being until you're a mother or father to children...never mind being an actual PARENT. i remember seeing dr. drew say that the great thing about getting older is seeing your children grow up and how he just couldn't imagine how that must be for people who didn't have children...of course, he was saying it on bonnie hunt's show to bonnie hunt who doesn't have kids and pointed that fact out to him rather jarringly, so much so that he apologized.

as a single woman who would like to get married and have kids, God willing, it annoys me to no end when my friends who are mothers get all "you just don't understand" about how wonderful/hard it is to be a mother. there's a part of me that wishes these new mothers and fathers would stop whining and waxing about it.

people have been born since, well, the dawn of time, and yeah it was hard but you rolled up your sleeves and you did it. yes, the unconditional love, blah blah blah...yes! i know! i get it! but please, for the love of all that is good and pure, be a parent rather than a friend to the children you whine and wax about. if you do the parent job right, you'lld get to be a friend to your kids, but the parent job comes first. i don't even have kids and i know that!
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tonightineed is actually Mrs. Ziegler-Spock
02/20/09

In reply to Fetishizing Traditional Roles Means Ignoring Their Realities
I'll never forget the time it struck me that getting married was simply co-existing under a legal contract. (don't get me wrong, I want my day in my white dress)

The stark realities of a relationship, while strange to deal with at first, are what make it enjoyable. Not the "omg did you buy me shiny rocks because you love me?" kay commercials we see.
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southernbelle
02/20/09

In reply to Fetishizing Traditional Roles Means Ignoring Their Realities
I also noticed this with pre-Valentine's Day jewelry commercials. Women acted like getting a ring was the single best thing that could ever happen. I mean, I adore my husband a good 85% of the time, but he didn't turn into Prince Charming the second he said "I do." I just kinda looked at those commercials like, "Seriously? I mean, getting in on his health insurance is cool, but..."
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Yes_Tim_Gunn
02/20/09

@southernbelle: Health insurance tipped us into getting married. At the judge's office.
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starfishtat is knocked up with baby boyfishtat
02/20/09

In reply to Fetishizing Traditional Roles Means Ignoring Their Realities
I am 8 weeks pregnant and just this week started having those "oh, shit, my life is going to be changed forever" panics. This was a massively planned decision by my husband and me, but that doesn't mean that we aren't still kind of freaking out about the rollercoaster our lives are about to become.

I wonder if Nadya ever had these moments, or if she was sort of blindly enthusiastic the entire process. Even now, she seems really focused on her beautiful angels, blah blah, but I've heard her say very little that acknowledges the amount of exhausting time and energy caring for 8 NEWBORNS will take! But then trying to figure out what she's about is probably fruitless... I think she is a woman with some pretty sad mental health issues and pretending she could have thought rationally about any of this probably assumes too much.
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rocknrollunicorn
02/20/09

@starfishtat (hearts) a vulnerable chuck bass: Congratulations, btw. Despite the fact that it's in this thread :)
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Newsgirl
02/20/09

In reply to Fetishizing Traditional Roles Means Ignoring Their Realities
I have a friend who is more concerned with "being married," like it's a title or something, than anything else in her life. Work, school, anything. She's single right now, and nearly every time I speak to her she goes off the deep end about how everyone else is married but her, about how she wants a husband and she wants to have a wedding and everything else... when I bring up how much weddings cost these days, she doesn't really care, or the fact that marriages are more than "being married," but it doesn't help. I worry she's setting herself up for complete disaster.

So glad you posted this.
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nora charles
02/20/09

In reply to Fetishizing Traditional Roles Means Ignoring Their Realities
I think this is pretty universal, though. I very, very rarely see anyone questioning whether or not their personality is a good fit for raising children. There are sometimes questions about financial readiness or maturity or whatnot, but most parents don't think, "Wow, I'm really a control freak/have a bad temper/insert your own flaw here; how is that going to screw up my kid?" It's just assumed that if you want it bad enough, you can make it work.

Personally, the number one reason that I don't want kids is that I can't imagine the stress of being responsible for an entire little being's entire development and upbringing. So it's interesting to me that a lot of mothers-to-be don't seem to be concerned about that beyond the superficial "I'll teach her good manners and put her in ballet lessons" stuff.
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rocknrollunicorn
02/20/09

@nora charles: This is funny for me because I have a few friends who seem convinced it's just the way their life should be. But most of the people I'm really close to question this all the time.
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la.donna.pietra
02/20/09

@nora charles: It's something Mr. Pietra and I worry about on a regular basis--whether my tendency to obsess and flip out coupled with his tendency to overthink stuff will result in a hopelessly neurotic mini-Pietra. (In fact, you could say that we overthink and obsess constantly on this topic.)

I also spend a lot of time thinking about how I grew up and how I would have liked certain things to be different--large things, like living in a more populated area with more diversity, and smaller ones, like being involved in sports at an earlier age. All in all, I'm sure any future kid of mine will have similar complaints about however he or she is raised.

Ballet lessons are not something I put much thought into.
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Yes_Tim_Gunn
02/20/09

@nora charles:All I can think about is the reality of parenting, to the point where I no longer find babies cute. I am terrified I will repeat my mother's mistakes. I only have a good relationship with her now in my late 20s, and that is only because I live across the country from her. I love her, but she effed me up good, and by the time I work through the baggage, it will be too late for me to have kids. She, incidentally blames everything about herself on *her* mom, but thinks she herself was an awesome parent. I don't want to get linked into some sick chain of this and I worry about perpetuating it. But this is all a little TMI to rebutt acquaintances who are all, OMG when are you having a baby already?!

I can't be alone in this, right?
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rocknrollunicorn
02/20/09

In reply to Fetishizing Traditional Roles Means Ignoring Their Realities
Though personally, I think that for this woman, it probably goes farther than that. There's some obsession with pregnancy and a form of collecting children here that is really disturbing.
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rocknrollunicorn
02/20/09

In reply to Fetishizing Traditional Roles Means Ignoring Their Realities
Randomly, I recently caught the end of "The Story of Us." I saw it years ago and can't remember what I thought of it, really, but the concept is intriguing vis-a-vis romantic comedies -- an attempt to show a marriage and family for all its ups and downs. I'm sure it's Hollywood-ized but it's a film I'm interested in re-watching.
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