I remember this, and it was so so so sad. I cried the whole day about the fate of poor Rivka and Gavriel. Also, watching the funeral with their orphaned son, screaming, "Mommy! Mommy!" was horrible.
@deeemer: It was horrific to watch the coverage. I cannot imagine the fear of those that were trapped while gunman stormed the buildings.
@AtelierCeleste:
Grief is not a zero sum game.
Deemer was pointing out a story that moved her (him? deemer, sorry). The story of Rivka and Gavriel was compelling, along with many others on that day-- husband and wife, she six months pregnant, young son that was carried to safety by another, and the funeral was televised. Just because one story in particular brought you to tears does not mean you do not greive for all of the victims.
I must admit I felt quite disgusted by the singling out of one couple from the many who died on that day and wondered if this is yet another case of exceptionalism. As though other people's lives were less than this particular couple.
@curiousgeorgiana: Thank you. I feel for all the victims - for some reason, Rivka - because she seems most like myself - struck a particular resonance.
@deeemer: It's why I cry at pictures of little girls grieving for lost fathers at military funerals. Why don't I cry at the coffin of the dead soldier or the widow? Because I was a little girl who said goodbye to her dad too often, fearing it would be the last time. We all identify with different things.
Because I'm black, does that mean that I'm only going to sympathize or 'identify' with black people who are victims of mass violence (not half as bothered about the 'other' victims)?
@AtelierCeleste: Again. It's not zero sum. I'm saying it's normal for some people to identify with a story that strikes them as similar to their own life story.
A pregnant mother dies, and you're pregnant. A husband/ wife dies and you're a newlywed. A college student is murdered, and you have a daughter that just started college far from home. Etc, Etc.
I didn't say anything about race. I'm talking about the situation/ life story of the individual.
I think the reason why this was so highly promoted was because they wee AMERICAN. They were from Brooklyn. Other people died, yes; it was a tragedy. But they were one of the few Americans. They mentioned other Americans who died as well, but what was as mesmerizing as that poor boy screaming for his mother? It's about ratings.
And how the hell can the US be "pro Jewish"? There are ews everywhere, all over the world. The US just tends to side with the Israeli government, even if the Israeli goverment is acting abhorrently.
ANYWAY, i can't remember who said it, but I totally agree - people identify with different things. I am sure some identifified with the people captured at the hotel. Others with the children. It all depends on your life situation.
Also, India is one of the few countries where Jews have never had any problems, except during certain occupations. To have Jews singled out in a normally-tolerant country was shocking. Which brings me to the final thing, there are so few Jews there, this was hugely shocking.
Why are we viewing this through the lens of the Jewish experience? 'India is the only country where Jews have never had any problems', what does this have to do with the fact that a GRAND TOTAL of 166 people died?
How many 'other' little babies were crying for their parents? Moreover, I'm sure the 164 'other' people who died were confident they were living in a 'normally tolerant' country as well.
@AtelierCeleste: Please take this conversation elsewhere - via private message or email. You want to critique media coverage? Fine. You want to complain about others' sensitivity towards/respect for the victims of murder or genocide - whether from last year or the early 20th century? No. It doesn't further the conversation, and, quite frankly, its over the line. Any more of this and I will bring down the ban hammer.
There's something about little kids like right before or when they start getting teeth for the first time that makes their smiles so awesome and goofy and adorable.
"...we feel that it is essential that a woman be born a woman and have the physiology of a woman and the psychological experiences of living as a girl and a woman in order to embrace the work of the Vancouver Women's Health Collective."
But their mission statement says:
"We value shared information and experience over authoritative knowledge, especially when it comes to our own bodies. We support a woman's right to make informed choices about her health and health care. Women who were born women and live their lives as women inform the work we do including workshop development, library and resource acquisition, speech and campaign work, information dissemination, and organizing. We support women's sexual autonomy. We are pro-choice."
I see no reason, really, for the bolded section to be in there. Transwomen can be feminists too, and, like all humans, have healthcare needs.
Based on the media and my experiences with it, I know that the couple pictured cannot possibly be lesbian. They both look feminine, and we all know that's silly. So what's the deal, Jezebel? Can't we publish real photos of real lesbians, wherein at least one of them is "butch" and clearly "wears the pants"? What is this discrimination against real lesbians??
@sequined: One of my psych profs said in absolute terms brooking no opposition that in EVERY gay or lesbian couple one played the man and one played the woman. NO MATTER WHAT.
And, yeah, eventually we got him fired but it took awhile and it wasn't over that.
@SylvanSylph: Wouldn't it? Unfortunately we weren't allowed to discuss it 'cause this guy was batshit crazy and what he said went. I transferred out of that specific class so I never heard if he had that as a question on the final.
@LadyFabulous: I know, they really deserve a thrashing in the press. It's a rather unpleasant surprise how many "women only" spaces make it a point to exclude transwomen.
Parents or guardians of Tyler Weinman: Please read the book written by Jeffery "chilhood squirrel torturer" Dahmer's dad. Then get your son serious mental health oversight and keep him the fuck away from people and animals until his shit is sorted out (possibly forever). Thank you, Civilized Society
@KLondike5: Possibly forever is probably the case. I don't know of any treatment methodology that is indicated to cure psychopaths of their deviance from societal norms. They simply don't give a chit what civilized society does or does not want.
Unfortunately I don't think he can get life for kitty torturing. He's going to have to kill a human being before he's locked away forever. Unless he meets with an unfortunate accident before that takes place.
It's a pity and a crime we have no way to deal with individuals like this. And unfortunately too we make them into heroes in the entertainment industry. Whenever we talk about "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" we hate Nurse Ratchett (probably psychopathic herself) but feel sorry for the psychopath that Jack Nicholson plays.
We have to stop romanticizing anti-social people and figure out a way to stop them from harming innocents.
And, of course I am not aiming this lecture at you. Your post just made me think about it.
01:04 PM
Or as Jon Bovi would have it:
Stabbed through the lung
And they're not the ones to thank
You give hate a good name!
12:32 PM
01:06 PM
@AtelierCeleste:
Grief is not a zero sum game.
Deemer was pointing out a story that moved her (him? deemer, sorry). The story of Rivka and Gavriel was compelling, along with many others on that day-- husband and wife, she six months pregnant, young son that was carried to safety by another, and the funeral was televised. Just because one story in particular brought you to tears does not mean you do not greive for all of the victims.
02:21 PM
I must admit I felt quite disgusted by the singling out of one couple from the many who died on that day and wondered if this is yet another case of exceptionalism. As though other people's lives were less than this particular couple.
Anyway, carry on.
02:22 PM
02:24 PM
02:26 PM
02:37 PM
Because I'm black, does that mean that I'm only going to sympathize or 'identify' with black people who are victims of mass violence (not half as bothered about the 'other' victims)?
Is this not.....wrong?
02:40 PM
A pregnant mother dies, and you're pregnant. A husband/ wife dies and you're a newlywed. A college student is murdered, and you have a daughter that just started college far from home. Etc, Etc.
I didn't say anything about race. I'm talking about the situation/ life story of the individual.
03:59 PM
I think the reason why this was so highly promoted was because they wee AMERICAN. They were from Brooklyn. Other people died, yes; it was a tragedy. But they were one of the few Americans. They mentioned other Americans who died as well, but what was as mesmerizing as that poor boy screaming for his mother? It's about ratings.
And how the hell can the US be "pro Jewish"? There are ews everywhere, all over the world. The US just tends to side with the Israeli government, even if the Israeli goverment is acting abhorrently.
ANYWAY, i can't remember who said it, but I totally agree - people identify with different things. I am sure some identifified with the people captured at the hotel. Others with the children. It all depends on your life situation.
Also, India is one of the few countries where Jews have never had any problems, except during certain occupations. To have Jews singled out in a normally-tolerant country was shocking. Which brings me to the final thing, there are so few Jews there, this was hugely shocking.
04:40 PM
And the other deaths were not 'hugely shocking'?
Rly?
Again, the point is being missed.
Why are we viewing this through the lens of the Jewish experience? 'India is the only country where Jews have never had any problems', what does this have to do with the fact that a GRAND TOTAL of 166 people died?
How many 'other' little babies were crying for their parents? Moreover, I'm sure the 164 'other' people who died were confident they were living in a 'normally tolerant' country as well.
04:54 PM
11:35 AM
11:29 AM
11/23/09
Shall never be belov'd by men.
08/28/09
08/28/09
HA!
***covers face and back away***
08/28/09
*runs*
*goes back to mouring fr srs*
07/07/09
It's sad because there is a teacher shorting here in Chicago and all over the country - and fewer and fewer men are going into the field.
this article 'the mistrusted male teacher' breaks it down well:
[abcnews.go.com]
07/07/09
07/07/09
07/07/09
But their mission statement says:
"We value shared information and experience over authoritative knowledge, especially when it comes to our own bodies. We support a woman's right to make informed choices about her health and health care. Women who were born women and live their lives as women inform the work we do including workshop development, library and resource acquisition, speech and campaign work, information dissemination, and organizing. We support women's sexual autonomy. We are pro-choice."
I see no reason, really, for the bolded section to be in there. Transwomen can be feminists too, and, like all humans, have healthcare needs.
07/07/09
/jokin'
07/07/09
And, yeah, eventually we got him fired but it took awhile and it wasn't over that.
07/07/09
07/07/09
07/07/09
07/07/09
07/07/09
07/07/09
07/07/09
... I have a kitty on my lap right now and this makes me very sad.
07/07/09
Please read the book written by Jeffery "chilhood squirrel torturer" Dahmer's dad. Then get your son serious mental health oversight and keep him the fuck away from people and animals until his shit is sorted out (possibly forever).
Thank you,
Civilized Society
07/07/09
Unfortunately I don't think he can get life for kitty torturing. He's going to have to kill a human being before he's locked away forever. Unless he meets with an unfortunate accident before that takes place.
It's a pity and a crime we have no way to deal with individuals like this. And unfortunately too we make them into heroes in the entertainment industry. Whenever we talk about "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" we hate Nurse Ratchett (probably psychopathic herself) but feel sorry for the psychopath that Jack Nicholson plays.
We have to stop romanticizing anti-social people and figure out a way to stop them from harming innocents.
And, of course I am not aiming this lecture at you. Your post just made me think about it.
07/07/09
07/07/09