I am intentionally a stay-at-home dad. Please do not ever call me Mr. Mom. The only good thing about this is that it makes me all the more grateful for my wife
@Akbar Biberkopf: Yeah, the Mr. Mom thing is both unfair to Dads by implying that they're not inherently parents/caretakers/homemakers, too, and somehow seems to try to demean their mascultinity. Insulting to men, feminists, and sentient creatures the universe over...
@Akbar Biberkopf: Yes, the patriarchy hurts us all. A good friend of mine is a stay-at-home dad because his wife is a neurosurgeon. He's awesome and a great dad, and no one should ever mock him for doing the laundry. One person asked him "Does it hurt you to mop the floor?" And he told them "I did it all the time when I was single. How is now any different?"
That's right. You manhood is measured by penis size, not salary size. Your womanhood is measured by all the babies you've popped out, not your talent or intelligence.
A job is not an identity, people, just like a nationality is not an identity!
I am in almost the same situation as her. When we decided to have kids, we both agreed that I would stay at home taking care of them.
Fast forward to 10 years later. I work full time, and he works part time. I make almost twice as him. He works part time because he has his own business, his dream since he was in college, not because he couldn't find a full time job that paid more.
Yes, I resent him. Have I lost respect for him? Yes, some. We agreed I would be a SAHM, and he broke the promise. Now he's the one that works from home, picks up the kids and takes them to doctor and classes, which is was I looking forward to when pregnant.
He's able to do it because I have a GOOD salary and FULL benefits and he doesn't. I have talked to him about it, and his answer is, well, I'll be making good money some day and you can quit then.
So yeah, I understand what Eleanor is going through. There, now pile up the hate towards me.
@Little Green Frog: Marriage shouldn't just be about financial stability though, for richer and poorer, right? Times change, and if you can't change with them, then you need to re-evaluate your relationship. If you are SO resentful that your husband is not only working a part time job and owns his own business , but also taking care of your children, you should talk to him. And if you can't get over it, then get a divorce. PLENTY of women would love to have a husband who is so hands on with the kids. Plenty of families would love to have both parents managing to bring in at least some paycheck. A family losing it's main source of income is a terrible blow, but I have little sympathy for women who feel that they are special princesses who need to be "kept" and who, when times get rough, bitch about having to work. Welcome to life.
@Little Green Frog: Nah, I hear you. My husband has been laid off twice and granted, we didn't have kids at the time so there wasn't anything that he was caring for at home but I did really really resent hauling my ass to work every day at a job I detested because it gave us both health insurance while he was at home. And some days he would only watch Law & Order.
A lay-off is really really hard and it changes the dynamic of a relationship in a major way. The laid off person starts to feel worthless and the working person starts to feel taken advantage of. It's not an easy thing for anyone to get through.
@Little Green Frog: Your situation is similar in some ways, but you did not take it on national television (presumably). Thank you for that.
In any case, there is a difference between promises made and having to adjust a relationship, and constantly attacking someone's "manhood" because of the way things turned out.
@Little Green Frog: I think your resentment lies with the fact that an agreement was reached BEFORE kids - you would stay home. And now its as if that agreement had never happened. You don't mention ever discussing the subject again and changing roles as a result so I'm willing to bet there was no discussing and this is just the way things ended up.
I'll go out on a limb to say that if your husband had talked with you about the difficulties of starting his own business, that he would have to start small and it would be part-time and would you be WILLING to be the primary income during that period you wouldn't be resentful. I think I'd resent if I was in your position. I may even feel a bit used to boot. Exactly when is "someday" anyway? When you reach retirement age?
@5ft of fury: I have to say I am not resentful enough that I'm ready to go with a divorce. That has multiple consequences both economic and emotional, and on top of that, drags the kids. Trust me, separating is not that easy.
@rocknrollunicorn: Yes, I KNOW. I even feel funny talking about it in this somewhat "anonymous" web site. I would NOT be on national TV. Geez.
@Gretchen (will NOT accept used timpani): I have no idea what "someday" means. I keep asking every month to no avail. And you are right, I wasn't asked about the business, but even at the very beginning when it started I brought it up. When I do so I get labeled as a nagging wife that has no faith in him.
@Little Green Frog: I wonder if a timeline of some kind might work. Have you discussed how long he will try to make decent money before he looks for a regular job? In my experience (my experience being my parents) someone who shuts down the discussion with calling someone a "nag" is generally feeling very defensive about their inability to do something, like provide for the family, and so project that bitterness and bile onto the other person.
I imagine it's very emasculating for some men to stay home - even if they like it, even if it's best for the family etc etc. Not to advocate for separation or divorce - but a calm enumeration of what you can and cannot live with can go a long way to resolving these problems. Of course, then you have to balance your breaking point with the financial and emotional consequences of divorce, but that's part of it. Unless you'd have to pay him alimony. F that noise.
I agree that this woman is out of line. I would love it if some of the household stuff was taken care of at home.
My husband has been out of work since last September. I resent him sitting at home. I do.
It's not so much that he's a Mr. Mom. Really, he goes to the grocery store and that's it. We don't have kids.
He wanted a house and I moved away from my family so we could afford one. I didn't really care if we had a house, but I knew that he wanted one, so I took a leap of faith.
I made it clear that I after researching I wasn't going to be able to make the salary I was making before we moved. I would be taking a pay cut, while his salary would be close to what it was before the move. He was going to have to pick up the slack, though cost of living in the area we moved to was much lower than in our hometown.
Fast forward a few years - housing bust, no building work, no jobs at all in a town that's a combination of tourism/service-oriented positions, university and retail. People with master's degrees taking part-time parking attendant positions. I know that I'm lucky I have my job. We're just making the bills on my salary.
I get up to be at work by 7:30, and when I leave the house, he's still sleeping. I come home, the bed's not made, nothing done, and he's applying for positions online that we both know he's not going to get. He won't apply for positions that he considers "menial".
The thing is, you may think you know someone, but sometimes you don't until you're put into a situation where you see how people respond to a different reality. I always thought my husband would step up. I was wrong, and it has me completely re-evaluating everything about us as a couple. If that makes me a bad person, then so be it. I always wanted to work. I don't want to be a kept woman, but dammit, I don't feel like I should be supporting him either if he's not willing to make sacrifices too. And yes, this is not the situation Eleanor has. She should consider herself lucky.
I also think that if perceptions are supposed to be changing from the archaic ones of the 50's and women contributing equally, then equality in salary for women is critical. Really, women can be the breadwinners and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but in most cases, they're still working harder and longer to make the same amount a man would in a similar position. Fair is fair.
@genesa: I'm so sorry to hear about your situation.
Yes, I understand the resentment, and I'm sad that many comments in this post have such vitriol, not just towards this lady (whose 50's ideas sound backwards, I mean, really) but towards people like us who work so hard and don't feel like the other party is too.
He takes care of the kids and the house and she's bitching? Lady, pull your head out of your ass! We both work and I'm the one who ends up doing all the housework, laundry, cooking and kid stuff. I love Mr. G dearly but sometimes I think I'm gonna go postal when he comes home and feeds the pets then plants his ass on the sofa for the next 4 hours until bed time. And I'm not even gonna go into the rage I feel on weekends when I want to cry on Sunday night because I've still worked all weekend and I have to get up at 5 am on Monday to start my 'work' week.
I can't even get my husband to do 50%. Eleanor, shut the fuck up!
Hmm, i dont think being the breadwinner is the only issue here. Notice the outright aggressiveness i.e. attacking his manhood, acts like he's beneath her because he's umemployed.
Like she said she's envious of his time with their daughter and they both feel underappreaciated. The thing is he's her father too and i dont see why mum always has to be the one in charge of the household. I would think she would at least be appreciatvie that he gets to spend more time with their daughther. I get that she's stressed from working increased hours and having to shoulder the financial burden by herself until he finds a new gig but there's no need to be so disrespectful to her spouse, i mean damn that was harsh!If he got a new job and became the breadwinner again, would it be okay for him to treat her like she's treating him? I think not.
I don't know, Eleanor's resentment seems a lot like divorced parents sometimes feel. Dad gets to be the 'fun parent' who stays at home, playing with their daughter and getting to do the things it seems Eleanor genuinely enjoyed doing. And she's stuck at work 14hrs a day and comes home to a husband who wants 'kind words' boosting him for getting to have-in her mind-a grand old time sitting on his ass at home getting to watch their child grow up. I think both have genuine points that need to be worked on and I think the 'someone would be happy to take him off your hands bitch' comments are a little uncalled for. At least she's being honest instead of being passive aggressive about it and it takes 2 people to decide to go on national television to hash it out.
@battleaxonista: The problem is that he seems to see things much more clearly, and she doesn't realize that her gender stereotypes are probably not the real cause of all her rage and dissatisfaction.
However, I see your point -- while I'm sure the job loss caused the shit to hit the fan and certain previously unseen aspects of each partner's personality to emerge, there's no way her reaction came out of nowhere. How were they before this? He had to know something of who she was, I can't see this being a total shock.
Would it have killed Good Morning America to interview the MAJORITY (I'm sure) of other women and men who are finding ways of making it through the economy without centuries old bullshit dripping out their mouths? These morning shows are so aggressively old school it is ridiculous.
@bluebears: I truly believe they still buy into some fantasy demographic of stay at home moms looking for cool new mopping techniques and how to make a great gin rickey for their husbands.
@J.D.Regent: On this topic I don't agree, because it didn't work out in my relationship, and I've seen it not work in the long-term for others.
That being said, I hate these shows because they always find the most far out, sensational version of reality they can get their grubby paws on. Rather than focus on a couple that love and respect one another (as my partner and I did and still do), they chose these folks because it's... sensational.
@SomeAuthorGirl: you're saying you don't think the majority of couples where a man stays at home and a woman works work out? I'd be interested to hear your insights. I mean I can imagine there being real sociological points to be made about shifting gender roles in a recession economy, but this is not it.
@J.D.Regent: i just said that also. I'm not a guy but damn that was harsh, did you see how she outrightly attacked his manhood then cut to the clip of him crying. I dont want to see shit like this on my way to work.
@J.D.Regent: And EVERYTHING on them is aimed at upper-middle-class, to a vomit-inducing degree. Due to the economy, you can take a trip to Portugal for cheap! Oh look, cheap jeans -- they are only $75?
Really, Today Show/Good Morning America? Kiss my ass. A lot of people are out of work and probably watching your show. I blame any and all morning-time suicides on you.
I am the main breadwinner in my family, my husband is a PhD in a town full of PhDs and can't get a job in his field unless he is vying against 300 other people. Our situation is like theirs, except I have immense respect for my husband. There is no way in heck we'd be able to survive our daily life with two children without him there are the main caretaker.
We are also very cognizant of the fact that since our two kids are boys, they are especially fortunate to have this kind of focused attention from their father.
Our biggest hurdle is other people. You can't believe the side-eyes we get when they ask my husband what does he do. If I were the one staying home there'd be no second looks. But when he says he is the one that says home we get the Pause and then 'Oh...'
But we just shrug and pat ourselves on the back with the thought that our kids are smart, well adjusted and happy.
03/16/09
OK!
Soooo, dock her wages, treat her like an idiot and deny her birth control?
The oldies are godlies.
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A job is not an identity, people, just like a nationality is not an identity!
03/16/09
I am in almost the same situation as her. When we decided to have kids, we both agreed that I would stay at home taking care of them.
Fast forward to 10 years later. I work full time, and he works part time. I make almost twice as him. He works part time because he has his own business, his dream since he was in college, not because he couldn't find a full time job that paid more.
Yes, I resent him. Have I lost respect for him? Yes, some. We agreed I would be a SAHM, and he broke the promise. Now he's the one that works from home, picks up the kids and takes them to doctor and classes, which is was I looking forward to when pregnant.
He's able to do it because I have a GOOD salary and FULL benefits and he doesn't. I have talked to him about it, and his answer is, well, I'll be making good money some day and you can quit then.
So yeah, I understand what Eleanor is going through. There, now pile up the hate towards me.
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03/16/09
A lay-off is really really hard and it changes the dynamic of a relationship in a major way. The laid off person starts to feel worthless and the working person starts to feel taken advantage of. It's not an easy thing for anyone to get through.
03/16/09
In any case, there is a difference between promises made and having to adjust a relationship, and constantly attacking someone's "manhood" because of the way things turned out.
03/16/09
I'll go out on a limb to say that if your husband had talked with you about the difficulties of starting his own business, that he would have to start small and it would be part-time and would you be WILLING to be the primary income during that period you wouldn't be resentful. I think I'd resent if I was in your position. I may even feel a bit used to boot. Exactly when is "someday" anyway? When you reach retirement age?
03/16/09
@rocknrollunicorn: Yes, I KNOW. I even feel funny talking about it in this somewhat "anonymous" web site. I would NOT be on national TV. Geez.
@Gretchen (will NOT accept used timpani): I have no idea what "someday" means. I keep asking every month to no avail. And you are right, I wasn't asked about the business, but even at the very beginning when it started I brought it up. When I do so I get labeled as a nagging wife that has no faith in him.
03/16/09
I imagine it's very emasculating for some men to stay home - even if they like it, even if it's best for the family etc etc. Not to advocate for separation or divorce - but a calm enumeration of what you can and cannot live with can go a long way to resolving these problems. Of course, then you have to balance your breaking point with the financial and emotional consequences of divorce, but that's part of it. Unless you'd have to pay him alimony. F that noise.
03/17/09
I agree that this woman is out of line. I would love it if some of the household stuff was taken care of at home.
My husband has been out of work since last September.
I resent him sitting at home. I do.
It's not so much that he's a Mr. Mom. Really, he goes to the grocery store and that's it. We don't have kids.
He wanted a house and I moved away from my family so we could afford one. I didn't really care if we had a house, but I knew that he wanted one, so I took a leap of faith.
I made it clear that I after researching I wasn't going to be able to make the salary I was making before we moved. I would be taking a pay cut, while his salary would be close to what it was before the move. He was going to have to pick up the slack, though cost of living in the area we moved to was much lower than in our hometown.
Fast forward a few years - housing bust, no building work, no jobs at all in a town that's a combination of tourism/service-oriented positions, university and retail. People with master's degrees taking part-time parking attendant positions. I know that I'm lucky I have my job. We're just making the bills on my salary.
I get up to be at work by 7:30, and when I leave the house, he's still sleeping. I come home, the bed's not made, nothing done, and he's applying for positions online that we both know he's not going to get. He won't apply for positions that he considers "menial".
The thing is, you may think you know someone, but sometimes you don't until you're put into a situation where you see how people respond to a different reality. I always thought my husband would step up. I was wrong, and it has me completely re-evaluating everything about us as a couple. If that makes me a bad person, then so be it. I always wanted to work. I don't want to be a kept woman, but dammit, I don't feel like I should be supporting him either if he's not willing to make sacrifices too. And yes, this is not the situation Eleanor has. She should consider herself lucky.
I also think that if perceptions are supposed to be changing from the archaic ones of the 50's and women contributing equally, then equality in salary for women is critical. Really, women can be the breadwinners and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but in most cases, they're still working harder and longer to make the same amount a man would in a similar position. Fair is fair.
03/17/09
Yes, I understand the resentment, and I'm sad that many comments in this post have such vitriol, not just towards this lady (whose 50's ideas sound backwards, I mean, really) but towards people like us who work so hard and don't feel like the other party is too.
03/16/09
I can't even get my husband to do 50%. Eleanor, shut the fuck up!
03/16/09
The man LOVES his daughter and is willing to do whatever it takes. She needs to respecognize what she has.
03/16/09
Like she said she's envious of his time with their daughter and they both feel underappreaciated. The thing is he's her father too and i dont see why mum always has to be the one in charge of the household. I would think she would at least be appreciatvie that he gets to spend more time with their daughther. I get that she's stressed from working increased hours and having to shoulder the financial burden by herself until he finds a new gig but there's no need to be so disrespectful to her spouse, i mean damn that was harsh!If he got a new job and became the breadwinner again, would it be okay for him to treat her like she's treating him? I think not.
03/16/09
It's great. Show up at the house at 7 PM any evening and dinner is hot and on the table.
He is way better at this stuff than my mom ever was.
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However, I see your point -- while I'm sure the job loss caused the shit to hit the fan and certain previously unseen aspects of each partner's personality to emerge, there's no way her reaction came out of nowhere. How were they before this? He had to know something of who she was, I can't see this being a total shock.
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That being said, I hate these shows because they always find the most far out, sensational version of reality they can get their grubby paws on. Rather than focus on a couple that love and respect one another (as my partner and I did and still do), they chose these folks because it's... sensational.
Grr.
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Really, Today Show/Good Morning America? Kiss my ass. A lot of people are out of work and probably watching your show. I blame any and all morning-time suicides on you.
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We are also very cognizant of the fact that since our two kids are boys, they are especially fortunate to have this kind of focused attention from their father.
Our biggest hurdle is other people. You can't believe the side-eyes we get when they ask my husband what does he do. If I were the one staying home there'd be no second looks. But when he says he is the one that says home we get the Pause and then 'Oh...'
But we just shrug and pat ourselves on the back with the thought that our kids are smart, well adjusted and happy.
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03/16/09
Your looks intoxicate me
Even though you seem to hate me
There's too many like you Elenore really
Elenore gee I think you're swell
And you're sending women's lib to hell
You took my pride and joy etcetera
Elenore can I take the time
To ask you to speak your mind
Tell me that you love me better...
03/16/09